Didi Bilbo know the extent of the ring? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Anorien · 07-08-2002, 11:37 AM

Sorry to post so much! I just have a lot of questions. Did Bilbo know what the ring was? or did he treat it like a little trick thing? Because it seemed like he had no clue of its power. Is this true, or had the ring just clouded his mind to a point where he was not thinking clearly any longer? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img]

Daniel Telcontar · 07-08-2002, 11:46 AM

I don't think Bilbo ever found out what the Ring really was. On his adventure with the dwarves he only thought of it as an invisibility ring, nice to have when you are in trouble. And Gandalf never told him, Bilbo gave up the Ring to Frodo without knowing what it really was. And that Bilbo in his high age offers to take the Ring to Mount Doom suggests that he did not understand the danger of the journey.
I don't think Bilbo's mind was clouded; but he was only a simple hobbit, without understanding of greater affairs.

Child of the 7th Age · 07-08-2002, 01:25 PM

You have to remember that not even Gandalf, who was a Maia, understood what the Ring was for many years. Fifty-nine years passed between Bilbo's return from his adventure and his departure from Bag End (2942-3001 T.A.).

Gandalf was suspicious from the beginning, especially when he realized that Bilbo had lied about how he acquired the Ring. Gandalf also noted Bilbo's coninuing youthful appearance, but initially thought that was merely because his family was long-lived. In 2953, at the last meeting of the White Council, the group discussed the Rings, and Saruman told them the One Ring had gone down the Anduin and been lost in the Sea. After this, Saruman withdrew to Isengard and fortified it. According to HoMe, this was the first time Gandalf seriously thought about Bilbo's Ring.

Bilbo's strange behavior, his inabiliy to give up the Ring, put serious suspicion in Gandalf's mind. He spent the next 17 years searching for clues to confirm these suspicions. In 3018, he returned to the Shire to warn Frodo about the Ring, and the hobbit fled some five months later.

So if Gandalf took this long to figure out the Ring, it's no wonder that Bilbo had little idea of its power.

Anorien · 07-08-2002, 01:55 PM

Wow. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]

akhtene · 07-08-2002, 04:32 PM

As Galadriel explained to Frodo, the Ring gave power according to the posessor's initial strength. So Bilbo, being only 'a simple hobbit' couldn't have any other notion of it as just a trick thing.

Kuruharan · 07-08-2002, 04:37 PM

Quote:

I don't think Bilbo ever found out what the Ring really was.

Let's give Bilbo a little bit of credit. He was at the Council of Elrond where everything was spelled out as plainly as could be. Just because he did not totally understand the dangers of the journey does not mean that he did not understand that it was Sauron's Ring. Neither did Frodo & Co. understand the danger of the journey. He was much wiser than your average hobbit. He'd been among Dwarves and Elves and had seen quite a bit of the world. To say nothing about facing down a dragon. I think he had a better grasp of greater affairs than most.

[ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: Kuruharan ]

Anorien · 07-08-2002, 04:38 PM

i just thought that he was a little slow and didn't catch on when it was presented to him.

Daniel Telcontar · 07-08-2002, 04:40 PM

Yeah, sorry Bilbo if I offended you (and I meant that).

I guess he was just the ordinary hobbit, a bit simple, but ready to do his part.

Orome · 07-08-2002, 09:45 PM

Quote:

i just thought that he was a little slow and didn't catch on when it was presented to him.

I'm curious to know what you mean by this

O'Boile · 07-12-2002, 12:59 PM

I think Bilbo knew what he was saying when he offers to take the ring to Mordor. I also think that he knows that he can't do it, but makes the offer anyway for 2 reasons.
1. He feels responsible, and thus he should be the one to go.
2. It would let him take possesion of the ring again.

Orome · 07-13-2002, 09:28 AM

Bilbo knew what the ring was, because he was at the council of Elrond. That all there can be said about it

Anorien · 07-13-2002, 01:12 PM

you know...when Biblo was at the counsil and the power was explained. And yet, when he was talking to Frodo, he went all bezerk with "let me hold it one last time..." ya know? I just thought thta he did understand it. asal (that's all).

Caradhras · 07-13-2002, 03:48 PM

Well~
I think that you can tell from the movie that Bilbo never found out what the ring was. I haven't read the book all the way but I don't think that he ever does!! Well, gotta run. Laters~!

Orome · 07-13-2002, 09:45 PM

Quote:

And yet, when he was talking to Frodo, he went all bezerk with "let me hold it one last time..."

The reason he "went bezerk" was because the ring still had power over him. Frodo understood that the ring had to be destroyed, but he still ended up not wanting to destroy it. It had nothing to do with understanding the power of the ring.

Quote:

I think that you can tell from the movie that Bilbo never found out what the ring was. I haven't read the book all the way but I don't think that he ever does!! Well, gotta run.

dont base your opinion on the movie. They abbreviated the Council of Elrond quite a bit.

O'Boile · 07-15-2002, 11:52 AM

Why would you make an opinion of based on the movie when there is the original book that the movie is based on to use as a reference? Especially in the forum for the books.

*Varda* · 07-15-2002, 12:53 PM

<font color=white> I thought we were talking pre-lotr? Obviously at the Council of Elrond Bilbo would have found out what the ring was! However, before that I doubt he did. If Gandalf didn't why would Bilbo? He may have been a pretty learned hobbit and seen more than most hobbits but his knowledge was not to this extent. Why would he have realised this particular ring was Sauron's Ring? And although Bilbo had travelled, remember the general attitude in the Shire was that they didn't think much of the world Outside.

~*Varda Elentari*~

Child of the 7th Age · 07-15-2002, 01:25 PM

Like Varda, I thought the question was referring to the period before the Ring quest.

There is no doubt in my mind that Bilbo understood the basics about the Ring after the Council of Elrond. In the first drafts, Tolkien actually had Bilbo taking on the quest itself. Don't base your opinions on the movie. It was a great movie, but it wasn't the book!

Actually, I think when Frodo first left the Shire, even he did not have a clear idea how frightful the power of the Ring was. This was not made clear in the movie where Frodo was shown as a "victim" from the very beginning. In the book, it's a much more gradual process.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

07-08-2002, 11:37 AM	#1
Anorien Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Old Navy of Rohan Posts: 138	Didi Bilbo know the extent of the ring? Sorry to post so much! I just have a lot of questions. Did Bilbo know what the ring was? or did he treat it like a little trick thing? Because it seemed like he had no clue of its power. Is this true, or had the ring just clouded his mind to a point where he was not thinking clearly any longer? [img]smilies/confused.gif[/img] __________________ FRODO: all low and retarded Oh Mr. Frodo, do you have any more food? Here eat mine, I’m so fat. How about I carry the ring for you. It’s soooo pretty, I mean heavy! SAM: Why you little-! FRODO: You asked for it!

07-08-2002, 11:46 AM	#2
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	I don't think Bilbo ever found out what the Ring really was. On his adventure with the dwarves he only thought of it as an invisibility ring, nice to have when you are in trouble. And Gandalf never told him, Bilbo gave up the Ring to Frodo without knowing what it really was. And that Bilbo in his high age offers to take the Ring to Mount Doom suggests that he did not understand the danger of the journey. I don't think Bilbo's mind was clouded; but he was only a simple hobbit, without understanding of greater affairs. __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer

07-08-2002, 01:25 PM	#3
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	You have to remember that not even Gandalf, who was a Maia, understood what the Ring was for many years. Fifty-nine years passed between Bilbo's return from his adventure and his departure from Bag End (2942-3001 T.A.). Gandalf was suspicious from the beginning, especially when he realized that Bilbo had lied about how he acquired the Ring. Gandalf also noted Bilbo's coninuing youthful appearance, but initially thought that was merely because his family was long-lived. In 2953, at the last meeting of the White Council, the group discussed the Rings, and Saruman told them the One Ring had gone down the Anduin and been lost in the Sea. After this, Saruman withdrew to Isengard and fortified it. According to HoMe, this was the first time Gandalf seriously thought about Bilbo's Ring. Bilbo's strange behavior, his inabiliy to give up the Ring, put serious suspicion in Gandalf's mind. He spent the next 17 years searching for clues to confirm these suspicions. In 3018, he returned to the Shire to warn Frodo about the Ring, and the hobbit fled some five months later. So if Gandalf took this long to figure out the Ring, it's no wonder that Bilbo had little idea of its power. __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

07-08-2002, 01:55 PM	#4
Anorien Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Old Navy of Rohan Posts: 138	Wow. [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] __________________ FRODO: all low and retarded Oh Mr. Frodo, do you have any more food? Here eat mine, I’m so fat. How about I carry the ring for you. It’s soooo pretty, I mean heavy! SAM: Why you little-! FRODO: You asked for it!

07-08-2002, 04:32 PM	#5
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	As Galadriel explained to Frodo, the Ring gave power according to the posessor's initial strength. So Bilbo, being only 'a simple hobbit' couldn't have any other notion of it as just a trick thing. __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

07-08-2002, 04:38 PM	#7
Anorien Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Old Navy of Rohan Posts: 138	i just thought that he was a little slow and didn't catch on when it was presented to him. __________________ FRODO: all low and retarded Oh Mr. Frodo, do you have any more food? Here eat mine, I’m so fat. How about I carry the ring for you. It’s soooo pretty, I mean heavy! SAM: Why you little-! FRODO: You asked for it!

07-08-2002, 04:40 PM	#8
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	Yeah, sorry Bilbo if I offended you (and I meant that). I guess he was just the ordinary hobbit, a bit simple, but ready to do his part. __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer

07-12-2002, 12:59 PM	#10
O'Boile Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 117	I think Bilbo knew what he was saying when he offers to take the ring to Mordor. I also think that he knows that he can't do it, but makes the offer anyway for 2 reasons. 1. He feels responsible, and thus he should be the one to go. 2. It would let him take possesion of the ring again.

07-13-2002, 09:28 AM	#11
Orome Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 195	Bilbo knew what the ring was, because he was at the council of Elrond. That all there can be said about it

07-13-2002, 01:12 PM	#12
Anorien Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Old Navy of Rohan Posts: 138	you know...when Biblo was at the counsil and the power was explained. And yet, when he was talking to Frodo, he went all bezerk with "let me hold it one last time..." ya know? I just thought thta he did understand it. asal (that's all). __________________ FRODO: all low and retarded Oh Mr. Frodo, do you have any more food? Here eat mine, I’m so fat. How about I carry the ring for you. It’s soooo pretty, I mean heavy! SAM: Why you little-! FRODO: You asked for it!

07-13-2002, 03:48 PM	#13
Caradhras Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: the moon Posts: 55	Well~ I think that you can tell from the movie that Bilbo never found out what the ring was. I haven't read the book all the way but I don't think that he ever does!! Well, gotta run. Laters~! __________________ There is only one true reason for living... ME!!!!!!!!! http://www.uniquehardware.co.uk/serv...tz/grommit.gif http://216.40.201.38/otn/animals/bl_paw.gif

07-15-2002, 11:52 AM	#15
O'Boile Wight Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 117	Why would you make an opinion of based on the movie when there is the original book that the movie is based on to use as a reference? Especially in the forum for the books.

07-15-2002, 12:53 PM	#16
Varda Maiden of Tears Join Date: May 2002 Location: Valinor. Posts: 571	<font color=white> I thought we were talking pre-lotr? Obviously at the Council of Elrond Bilbo would have found out what the ring was! However, before that I doubt he did. If Gandalf didn't why would Bilbo? He may have been a pretty learned hobbit and seen more than most hobbits but his knowledge was not to this extent. Why would he have realised this particular ring was Sauron's Ring? And although Bilbo had travelled, remember the general attitude in the Shire was that they didn't think much of the world Outside. ~Varda Elentari~ __________________ 'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo "Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn

07-15-2002, 01:25 PM	#17
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Like Varda, I thought the question was referring to the period before the Ring quest. There is no doubt in my mind that Bilbo understood the basics about the Ring after the Council of Elrond. In the first drafts, Tolkien actually had Bilbo taking on the quest itself. Don't base your opinions on the movie. It was a great movie, but it wasn't the book! Actually, I think when Frodo first left the Shire, even he did not have a clear idea how frightful the power of the Ring was. This was not made clear in the movie where Frodo was shown as a "victim" from the very beginning. In the book, it's a much more gradual process. sharon, the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.