In The Hobbit... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Aragorn2002 · 01-13-2003, 09:44 PM

Does anyone know why trolls turn to stone when the sun comes up? I might o missed it.
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Deathwail · 01-13-2003, 10:15 PM

There really is not a whole lot of Lore about Trolls what they are or where-who made them, pretty much cause all the books are seen from the point of view of the " good " side and most evil stuff like Dragons and Trolls are only lightly gone into ( like just what a Balrog looked like or what form of life did Meklor twist to make the Dragons).And the Trolls from the Hobbit are some of the early ideas he had for Trolls and are not quite the bruts that they are in the later books.Just my take on it i am sure other ppl could add more. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Deathwail · 01-14-2003, 05:47 AM

Just a guess on why they turn to stone, the Maiden Arien from among the Maiar is who the Valar chose to guide the Sun.Servants of Meklor could not endure her glance it was said so maybe Trolls of all of Meklors fellbeasts if indeed they where of his making could endure it the least and would return to their natural form (stone).Another guess would be they are just beasts from before the lighting of the Trees of Valar and just happen to not be able to stand light for whatever reason but i dont think Tolkien ever really said why.

***Mithadan*** · 01-14-2003, 08:28 AM

You may want to look under the Articles section (linked to our Main page) in which Barrow Wight and Mr. Underhill have point/counterpoint articles about Trolls. An interesting debate.

Aule · 01-14-2003, 08:30 AM

I'm sure i remember something said by Treebeard saying that Trolls were mockeries of Ents created by Melkor, well not created as he couldn't create, but twisted some other form of life into it.
Ok i didn't answer the question on why they turn to stone but at least we get an idea of where they come from

Child of the 7th Age · 01-14-2003, 08:50 AM

Some of this also relates to the ancient Nordic tales from which Tolkien drew his inspiration.

One of Tolkien's colleagues at Oxford, Helen Buckhust, published a paper in 1928-29 which discussed Icelandic folklore. JRRT was undoubtedly familiar with it.

This paper cited an ancient tale about a household where whoever kept watch on Yule night when the family went to church was found dead or mad the next morning. One year, a young girl volunteered for the job, along with a baby whom she dandled on her knee. By chance, she sang to the baby a lay about an evil "Thing" at her window and also how that Thing was commanded to turn to stone by the time the morning sun rose.

Unbeknown to the girl, there was such a Thing looking in, and the next morning when folk came back from church they found a great stone standing between the ridges of the roof "and there it has stood ever since."

It is also said in Norwegian folktales that when Trolls are caught in the sunlight, they burst into pieces.

[ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

littlemanpoet · 01-14-2003, 02:29 PM

This also relates to the four elements: earth, air, fire, water. Trolls are thought to be earth elementals come to life, so to speak; who knows? Maybe sunlight zaps them of their air and water, leaving only stone? Just a guess based on a surmise.... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Aragorn2002 · 01-15-2003, 05:52 PM

thanks everyone
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Raefindel · 01-15-2003, 09:33 PM

This is from The Tolkien Companion ;

Quote:

...Yet one memory has lingered with espeical clarity: the association of the Troll-race with stone, the substance of their being. Trolls bore thesame relationship to stone as Ents did to wood; of stone they were made in theri beginning, and to stone they returned if caught by the direct rays of the noonday Sun; for like the Orcs they were bred during the years of the Great Darkness of the First Age, and so the Sun was their enemy...

So it seems that everyone's guesses were very educated guesses. [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

doug*platypus · 01-16-2003, 03:41 AM

While far from infallible, it seems that in this case the Companion has hit on a very good point. The fact that Trolls seemingly returned to stone seems to hint at the fact that they were created from that stuff, rather than being corrupted Ents (although I'm not convinced that Treebeard thinks Trolls were made from Ents).

They were creatures of the Darkness that ruled Middle-Earth when Melkor was unchecked and only Valinor had the light of the Two Trees. His spells were either not powerful enough, or did not take account at all of the Sun. Arien had a strong power against even Melkor, after all. Maybe in a way, her 'magic' was stronger than the spells that kept Trolls animated, in much the same way as Merry's barrowblade destroyed the spells that let the Witch-king survive in physical form.

01-13-2003, 09:44 PM	#1
Aragorn2002 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: US Posts: 91	In The Hobbit... Does anyone know why trolls turn to stone when the sun comes up? I might o missed it. ________ LOVE HELP Last edited by Aragorn2002; 04-15-2011 at 03:07 AM.

01-13-2003, 10:15 PM	#2
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	There really is not a whole lot of Lore about Trolls what they are or where-who made them, pretty much cause all the books are seen from the point of view of the " good " side and most evil stuff like Dragons and Trolls are only lightly gone into ( like just what a Balrog looked like or what form of life did Meklor twist to make the Dragons).And the Trolls from the Hobbit are some of the early ideas he had for Trolls and are not quite the bruts that they are in the later books.Just my take on it i am sure other ppl could add more. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-14-2003, 05:47 AM	#3
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Just a guess on why they turn to stone, the Maiden Arien from among the Maiar is who the Valar chose to guide the Sun.Servants of Meklor could not endure her glance it was said so maybe Trolls of all of Meklors fellbeasts if indeed they where of his making could endure it the least and would return to their natural form (stone).Another guess would be they are just beasts from before the lighting of the Trees of Valar and just happen to not be able to stand light for whatever reason but i dont think Tolkien ever really said why. __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-14-2003, 08:28 AM	#4
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,385	You may want to look under the Articles section (linked to our Main page) in which Barrow Wight and Mr. Underhill have point/counterpoint articles about Trolls. An interesting debate. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

01-14-2003, 08:30 AM	#5
Aule Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hammering away in Valinor Posts: 126	I'm sure i remember something said by Treebeard saying that Trolls were mockeries of Ents created by Melkor, well not created as he couldn't create, but twisted some other form of life into it. Ok i didn't answer the question on why they turn to stone but at least we get an idea of where they come from __________________ For him that is pitiless, the deeds of pity are ever strange and beyond reckoning - of Melkor before his final downfall

01-14-2003, 08:50 AM	#6
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Some of this also relates to the ancient Nordic tales from which Tolkien drew his inspiration. One of Tolkien's colleagues at Oxford, Helen Buckhust, published a paper in 1928-29 which discussed Icelandic folklore. JRRT was undoubtedly familiar with it. This paper cited an ancient tale about a household where whoever kept watch on Yule night when the family went to church was found dead or mad the next morning. One year, a young girl volunteered for the job, along with a baby whom she dandled on her knee. By chance, she sang to the baby a lay about an evil "Thing" at her window and also how that Thing was commanded to turn to stone by the time the morning sun rose. Unbeknown to the girl, there was such a Thing looking in, and the next morning when folk came back from church they found a great stone standing between the ridges of the roof "and there it has stood ever since." It is also said in Norwegian folktales that when Trolls are caught in the sunlight, they burst into pieces. [ January 14, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

01-14-2003, 02:29 PM	#7
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	This also relates to the four elements: earth, air, fire, water. Trolls are thought to be earth elementals come to life, so to speak; who knows? Maybe sunlight zaps them of their air and water, leaving only stone? Just a guess based on a surmise.... [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

01-15-2003, 05:52 PM	#8
Aragorn2002 Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: US Posts: 91	thanks everyone ________ Paxil injury lawyer Last edited by Aragorn2002; 04-15-2011 at 03:07 AM.

01-16-2003, 03:41 AM	#10
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	While far from infallible, it seems that in this case the Companion has hit on a very good point. The fact that Trolls seemingly returned to stone seems to hint at the fact that they were created from that stuff, rather than being corrupted Ents (although I'm not convinced that Treebeard thinks Trolls were made from Ents). They were creatures of the Darkness that ruled Middle-Earth when Melkor was unchecked and only Valinor had the light of the Two Trees. His spells were either not powerful enough, or did not take account at all of the Sun. Arien had a strong power against even Melkor, after all. Maybe in a way, her 'magic' was stronger than the spells that kept Trolls animated, in much the same way as Merry's barrowblade destroyed the spells that let the Witch-king survive in physical form. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.