How long did a day last? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 06-11-2002, 09:21 PM

Did ME rotate around a star? If so, how long did a day last for it to make a complete rotation?

Joy · 06-11-2002, 10:20 PM

Considering that those in Valinor and Middle Earth were able to see Orion and Ursa Major - the Big Dipper, which was called the Wain, I would assumme that it revolved around the same star as modern Earth. So, I guess that a day would be the same 24 hours as we have.

Thinhyandoiel · 06-11-2002, 10:23 PM

I do recall from the Sil that when the Two Trees were still living, that each day had twelve hours. But afterwards yes, I agree with Joy, I'm pretty sure that ME had 24 hours.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-12-2002, 07:48 AM

I think Tolkien had wrote M-E as if it were prehistoric Earth, so yes, I think they're right. Besides, it would be too hard and pointless to make it different.

The Silver-shod Muse · 06-12-2002, 12:01 PM

Hold on a minute! There was a whole chapter in the Sil about the two Maia, (the feminine for the sun and the masculine for the moon, I can't remember their names) that guided the Sun and Moon around the Earth, not the Earth moving around the sun. Maybe this is just a myth, but most of the Sil is considered fact by the Elves, so why not this?

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 06-12-2002, 08:31 PM

I was reading about LotR somewhere, and it said it was a <em>prehistoric</em> world. If it was prehistoric, that means that there was no writing. Pre-before, historic-writing(basiclly). I can't stand to see that in print, just like I can't stand to see the word "human" used as a noun in print! [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

burrahobbit · 06-13-2002, 01:07 PM

To answer the name of the topic (which isn't a very bad question), 24. A lot of the stuff after that, however, is repellant.

Firstly, Gimli, going around a star doesn't cause days, it causes years. The years were just about the same length of time as now. The cosmology of Middle-earth went through many changes over the years, both in text and in conception, so I will leave that at that.

Also, Gimli, generally that is the meaning of prehistoric, but in this case it means before the European histories that we have.

And finally, Elrian, DON'T EVER SAY THAT AGAIN, YOU ARE ALL THE WAY WRONG. What you are thinking of is called a yén, WHICH IS NOT AT ALL A YEAR, AT ALL. A yén is 144 years, and as there isnt anything similar to that it is usually translated as "long year" BUT IT IS NOT A YEAR, SO THAT IS MISLEADING. If you look at the paragrapgh directly below what you quoted you'll notice that it talks all about Elven solar years. Arwen may have been 19 yéni old, but she was a hell of a lot more years older.

Elrian · 06-13-2002, 01:33 PM

And just who the HELL do YOU think you are?

mark12_30 · 06-13-2002, 01:39 PM

Golly. Let's all calm down and take a deep breath, and be civil, shall we?

burrahobbit · 06-13-2002, 01:40 PM

I think that I am burrahobbit, the best person in the whole world. Quality individual, all the way round. You can learn more about who I think I am in the Proust Questionaire and All About You threads in the Barrow-Downs section of this forum.

Aside from that, I think that I am a person that has read both of the relevant paragraphs wrt elf years, as opposed to a person that glossed over one of them.

burrahobbit · 06-13-2002, 01:51 PM

BTW, am I crazy, or did Elrian delete her first post to this thread?

TarElendil · 06-13-2002, 01:54 PM

The days were measured with the mingling of the the light of the Two Trees until the darkening of Valinor.
They took a fruit from Laurelin and it became the sun which was guided by the Maiar Arien. The last flower of Telperion was the moon and was guided by the Maiar Tilion who was of the company of Orome. The Sun and Moon revolved around Ea . Each passed east from Valinor went around the world and then back to valinor. as was telperion, the moon was the elder of the two new lights.

The Silver-shod Muse · 06-13-2002, 05:27 PM

Whoa Burrahobbit, you had me worried there for a second. I thought you were off your rocker, but I guess Elrian just deleted her post... And why was everyone hollering like that all of a sudden? [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

And Tar, you said much more eloquently what I had been trying to explain at the beginning of this thread about the sun and moon revolving instead of the Earth/Ea.

[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: The Silver-shod Muse ]

06-11-2002, 09:21 PM	#1
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	How long did a day last? Did ME rotate around a star? If so, how long did a day last for it to make a complete rotation? __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

06-11-2002, 10:20 PM	#2
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Considering that those in Valinor and Middle Earth were able to see Orion and Ursa Major - the Big Dipper, which was called the Wain, I would assumme that it revolved around the same star as modern Earth. So, I guess that a day would be the same 24 hours as we have. __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

06-11-2002, 10:23 PM	#3
Thinhyandoiel Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 187	I do recall from the Sil that when the Two Trees were still living, that each day had twelve hours. But afterwards yes, I agree with Joy, I'm pretty sure that ME had 24 hours. __________________ In gwidh ristennen, i fae narchannen I lach Anor ed ardhon gwannen Caled veleg, ethuiannen

06-12-2002, 07:48 AM	#4
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I think Tolkien had wrote M-E as if it were prehistoric Earth, so yes, I think they're right. Besides, it would be too hard and pointless to make it different. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-12-2002, 12:01 PM	#5
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Hold on a minute! There was a whole chapter in the Sil about the two Maia, (the feminine for the sun and the masculine for the moon, I can't remember their names) that guided the Sun and Moon around the Earth, not the Earth moving around the sun. Maybe this is just a myth, but most of the Sil is considered fact by the Elves, so why not this? __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis

06-12-2002, 08:31 PM	#6
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	I was reading about LotR somewhere, and it said it was a <em>prehistoric</em> world. If it was prehistoric, that means that there was no writing. Pre-before, historic-writing(basiclly). I can't stand to see that in print, just like I can't stand to see the word "human" used as a noun in print! [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

06-13-2002, 01:07 PM	#7
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	To answer the name of the topic (which isn't a very bad question), 24. A lot of the stuff after that, however, is repellant. Firstly, Gimli, going around a star doesn't cause days, it causes years. The years were just about the same length of time as now. The cosmology of Middle-earth went through many changes over the years, both in text and in conception, so I will leave that at that. Also, Gimli, generally that is the meaning of prehistoric, but in this case it means before the European histories that we have. And finally, Elrian, DON'T EVER SAY THAT AGAIN, YOU ARE ALL THE WAY WRONG. What you are thinking of is called a yén, WHICH IS NOT AT ALL A YEAR, AT ALL. A yén is 144 years, and as there isnt anything similar to that it is usually translated as "long year" BUT IT IS NOT A YEAR, SO THAT IS MISLEADING. If you look at the paragrapgh directly below what you quoted you'll notice that it talks all about Elven solar years. Arwen may have been 19 yéni old, but she was a hell of a lot more years older. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

06-13-2002, 01:33 PM	#8
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	And just who the HELL do YOU think you are? __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

06-13-2002, 01:39 PM	#9
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Golly. Let's all calm down and take a deep breath, and be civil, shall we? __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

06-13-2002, 01:40 PM	#10
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	I think that I am burrahobbit, the best person in the whole world. Quality individual, all the way round. You can learn more about who I think I am in the Proust Questionaire and All About You threads in the Barrow-Downs section of this forum. Aside from that, I think that I am a person that has read both of the relevant paragraphs wrt elf years, as opposed to a person that glossed over one of them. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

06-13-2002, 01:51 PM	#11
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	BTW, am I crazy, or did Elrian delete her first post to this thread? __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

06-13-2002, 01:54 PM	#12
TarElendil Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Armenelos Posts: 136	The days were measured with the mingling of the the light of the Two Trees until the darkening of Valinor. They took a fruit from Laurelin and it became the sun which was guided by the Maiar Arien. The last flower of Telperion was the moon and was guided by the Maiar Tilion who was of the company of Orome. The Sun and Moon revolved around Ea . Each passed east from Valinor went around the world and then back to valinor. as was telperion, the moon was the elder of the two new lights.

06-13-2002, 05:27 PM	#13
The Silver-shod Muse Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX Posts: 388	Whoa Burrahobbit, you had me worried there for a second. I thought you were off your rocker, but I guess Elrian just deleted her post... And why was everyone hollering like that all of a sudden? [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] And Tar, you said much more eloquently what I had been trying to explain at the beginning of this thread about the sun and moon revolving instead of the Earth/Ea. [ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: The Silver-shod Muse ] __________________ "'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis