Wierd?

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

The problem is that the newcomers are somewhat scared and intimidated. The water analogy is perfect for this. They're scared to go in the water for the first time. If you do it the gradual way, it is very tense and takes a while. If you have to start at the shallow end and walk yourself to the deep end, it can be slow and strange, but eventually you'll get there. I find it much easier to just dive right in. It's quick, simple, and exhilarating. If they had some encouragement, it might not be so hard for them. We can't force them in, but we can give them a little tug, or nudge. What if some of us were to hang around the newcomer's thread and just get to know them a little. We could just let them talk about their interests, and then we could offer them help, and give some suggestions as to threads they might be interested in posting at.

Not only that, as many people have been reiterating, it would help if those people were non-moderators/admins. It may seem weird, but people do associate easier with those of the same status. Mods and admins seem of higher status because they have power. In that case, they are looked upon as special, and everyone else is just ordinary, plain, and common. Common people have something in common (of course), but already, there's a start. And those who seek a relationship usually (if not always) start with those who have something in common, and they build off that. I wouldn't mind helping out some newcomers, especially after realizing I was once in their shoes, and in some ways still am. We should also stress the importance of reading the forum policies and of course, obeying them.

Sorry if this thread was kind of sloppy, but I think it gets the point across.

[burrahobbit]

I do not have a friend in the world and I still post.

[obloquy]

Novices should be nervous about posting in THE ADVANCED FORUM. The Books is for ADVANCED DISCUSSIONS OF MIDDLE-EARTH. The Novices and Newcomers is the forum for NOVICES AND NEWCOMERS. If you've got the stuff to post in the advanced forums, you're not going to feel uncomfortable doing it. If you feel out of place in the advanced board, reconsider whether you belong there at all.

Apologies to anyone who might be startled out of their seat by my emboldery, but it seems utterly necessary.

PS- ADVANCED is for ADVANCED, NOVICES is for NOVICES.

[Bêthberry]

Forgive me if I am reading this statement too generally, Willie, but it brings some further thoughts to mind about what kind of site the Barrow Downs is, especially in light of some of the other comments about friendship.

We could just let them talk about their interests,

Of course much of the delight of joining internet communities involves getting to know other people. This is as true of the Barrow Downs as of any other discussion forum.

But the Barrow Downs is unique in a particular way. It has always provided Tolkien and Middle-earth as a focus for that interest and has upheld a level of discussion about The Professor's work.

That is, we learn about each other by reading what we have to say about Tolkien rather than by talking about ourselves directly. Or reading the ways in which we develope Middle-earth through interactive writing in the RPG forums. We don't use the forum for personal interaction or chat or to 'get to know each other' as people do over a beer or a coffee in a pub or café.

That we do in the chat room. We get to know each other better there, and can be a bit looser and more personal there, where we won't waste precious bandwidth.

Thus, I would like to invite the newcomers not only to PM me for help or advice but also to come to the chat room, which is the 'other side of this life we live' here, if I can allude to an old Jefferson Airplane song.

I am an Op there as well as being the Moderator for the Rohan RPG forum here, and I find I often talk in chat about the RPGs with the other gamers as well as discussing the literary threads. Often I have been able to discuss a thread or post with the person who wrote it, and that has been exciting. We can throw ideas around in chat, where they 'snowball' into more solid ideas that merit being 'published' here in addition to discovering what other interests we share.

I think this distinction between the discussion forum and the chat room is what confuses some of the newcomers. Come meet us in chat as well as here.

Bêthberry,
Moderator for the Rohan RPG forum
and Chat Op

[Helkahothion]

You might call me wierd then. I have not experienced things like that. Many people I see on other forums, I see on the forums I visit too. But then again, I am all around the downs. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

The only forum I hardly every visit is the language forum and the novices and newcomers forum.

Suilad,

Anuion

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Forgive me if I am reading this statement too generally

Oh, not at all Bêthberry. I do understand that the main focus of Barrow-downs forum is Tolkien and Middle-earth. I don't mean that they should just talk about their interests. I mean when they introduce themselves, tehy could tell a little about themselves. Maybe a few newcomers might have some similar interests and say, "Oh, you like that? Me too!" Of course, if it does get out of hand, there are usually older members that pop in. They could ask nicely to keep it within the forum guidelines, or they could shift the discussion to something Tolkien (if it's possible), or they could help find a thread the newcomer might like. If there is a discussion about flowers in Ithilien and a newcomer happens to like flowers, then I would try to invite them to the thread.

And the chat does sound like a great idea. I was just in there last night, or actually early morning if you want to be technical. It was very friendly and welcoming there, and easygoing. You think we should invite newcomers to check it out, so, why not. I'm going to try an visit the newbie forum once in a while.

And yes, obloquy,

ADVANCED is for ADVANCED, NOVICES is for NOVICES.

Yes, however, not every newcomer is is a novice. And it can be hard to tell sometimes. I have no idea how to tell, I guess only time can.

[Estella Brandybuck]

Er, I hope I'm not overstepping my newbie boundaries by posting here... if I bother anyone, feel free to ignore me, or give me five lashes with a wet noodle, or some other suitable punishment...

Anyway, I've found that the Barrow Downs is a lot more welcoming than some other big message boards, and at the same time it's a lot more intimidating. I learned early on that I needed to have tougher skin in order to post here, and to always be ready to defend my opinions in as non-threatening a way as possible. I think I review my posts here a lot more than at other sites, because I'm always worried about posting something that makes me sound like a moron, and then having someone tell me that I am a moron because of it. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

But like I said, this place is a lot more welcoming than others I've been to. For example, I once frequented the message boards at TheForce.Net, but I soon discovered that the users there already had their own little cliques and they rarely payed attention to someone outside of these groups. Here at the Barrow Downs, though, older users will sometimes pay attention to what a newb like me has to say and respond to my posts, and if I'm lucky even debate a little with me.

The problem is that the newcomers are somewhat scared and intimidated.

This most definitely applies to me. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] I stuck to the movies and novices forum mostly at first, but unfortunately I just kept getting this incredible urge to discuss the books. From what I can tell, however, a lot of the same people from the movies forum post in the books forum (I think, anyway - maybe I just don't pay enough attention...), and I found the discussion environment to be fairly similar for the two. And maybe I'm just weird, but I've come to enjoy discussing things in the books section more...

I have yet to even dream of looking through the RPG forums, even though I love to write.

I'm the same way; I peeked into The Shire forum once just to see what it looked like, but for some reason, RPG has always scared me. Maybe it's because I've never made a LotR OC and I'm terrified of creating a Mary Sue, or just someone uninteresting, should I ever get involved in RPG... But perhaps someday I'll summon up some courage and follow Child of the 7th Age's advice.

Okay, I don't know if any of that made sense, but hopefully I got my point across... sorry if I got off-topic. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I've only been here since December or February, so I'm moderately new, but I find that if you just hang around a bit any part of the forum will accept you. It doesn't feel like anybody seems to be shutting other people out to me. The only part of the forum which I still find intimidating is The New Silmarillion project, as I blundered in once, said something silly, and just blundered right back out.

~Menelien

[obloquy]

Yes, however, not every newcomer is is a novice. And it can be hard to tell sometimes. I have no idea how to tell, I guess only time can.

If a newcomer is not a novice, then they can chill with the advanced posters and I can't see why they would feel intimidated. It's not hard to tell when someone is completely out of place. Here's a little checklist to give you an idea of what to look for:
[*]They'll bring up topics that have been thoroughly hashed out many times without offering any new angle[*]They'll try to make points by presenting completely illogical arguments[*]They often cite Tolkien 'guides', Middle-earth-based games, or the movies as valid sources for information[*]Frequently they're almost completely incapable of comprehensible articulation[*]They display an utter unfamiliarity with advanced Tolkien topics (e.g. "the Mayas")

In addition to this far-from-exhaustive checklist, there are also several subtle clues that the individual really doesn't belong in The Books forum. For example, it's common for a novice to put Tolkien into Mighty Morphin Power Ranger-terms, saying something like, 'sence Gandalf is a Mayar and Saruan is a Mayar there must be the same strong.' Oversimplification of complicated and dynamic Tolkienology. One that is particularly telling (yet also subtle) is when the poster declares some trivial Tolkien fact as if it is something new that others may not have considered.

The Books forum is not about making kids feel good about themselves. Some people just simply aren't...prepared for that forum.

[Hirilaelin]

I would dearly love to participate in many of the wonderful discussions taking place in The Books, but I feel too shy and self concious. Whenever I start writing a reply post, the familiar feeling of doubt stirs in me, pushing me back into the Quiz/Quote/Mayhem and Novices and Newcomers. I feel "weird." This is perhaps due to my youth and only having read LotR twice. Most of the people posting are older and more experienced with the world of LotR than I am, but I am always impressed by those my age who make excellent posts there. So, until I gain some more confidence, I'll go back to lurking...

Hiri

[the phantom]

There are a few places in the thread below that echo similar ideas.
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin...&f=14&t=000491

(In other words, it's already been discussed, you knuckleheads!!! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )

[Lyta_Underhill]

This is my first post in this forum. Help! I feel like an alien! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Anyway, I did the de rigeur thing and my first post was in the Introduce yourself here thread in the Novices and Newcomers forum. But then, there were too many interesting things going on in the Books forum! I have never started a topic, having never felt the need. If there is a question, I have searched and found something akin to it addressed in old or newer threads. Sometimes the threads in the Books section can be daunting, and I am still awaiting the day I have the time, courage and fortitude to respond in the "Frodo's Sacrifice" thread. That day may never come, but I have it bookmarked, just in case! I've never felt belittled in Books (just a bit lost when the Silmarillion and Lost Tales come up); in fact, I rarely go anywhere else on the Forums (don't have the time and Books posts are often quite long!). And I would hardly call myself an expert, as I am only now wading through the Silmarillion (after an abortive attempt around 15 years ago). I think the best attitude to take in the Books forum is "I have an opinion, but I'm willing to learn." It works for me, and I can understand why someone who is new to message boards could be intimidated, especially by a curt reply, no matter how appropriate. I used to work in computer customer service (help desk), and I know how important it is not to make the customer feel stupid! It cuts off the higher brain functions and makes your job ten times harder to do! The only drawback is that sort of job tends to engender insanity in short order. I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Anyway, thanks for listening to my ramblings!

Cheers,
Lyta

P.S. Estella, I too used to post on theforce.net LONG ago (1999-2000), but haven't in a very long time. I never paid attention to any cliques that might have been there at the time, except for the one that interested me, the never-ending Qui-Gon Jinn thread that eventually turned into www.qui-gonline.org . I find that, since they killed Qui-Gon, things have never been the same and I didn't get into the second film like the first. I suppose the trick is just posting what is important to you to post, rather than worrying about what a particular clique will think. Either that, or I am entirely clique-blind, being socially impaired anyway!
[img]smilies/redface.gif[/img]

[ June 14, 2003: Message edited by: Lyta_Underhill ]

[Airerûthiel]

I agree - I usually hang out in Rohan, so whenever I go to places like Mayhem and Movies (which are probably my other two most frequented haunts) I feel like a newbie even though I've been a Downs regular for almost a year now.

[Neferchoirwen]

i've an observation that irks me to the point of asking a similar question to "why me?"

Why does it seem as if i am the last poster of a topic that no one else posts on any longer?

that to me is weird...

[Mariska Greenleaf]

Why does it seem as if i am the last poster of a topic that no one else posts on any longer?

Don't worry... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I feel a bit reliefed after reading through this thread, I'm happy I'm not the only one who is a bit intimidated by the advanced discussion section that is "The books".
I have read most of the discussions there, and usually I have a clear opinion about the topics that are discussed.
But until now, I have barely posted there.
First of all, because most of the people that are frequently on "the books" seem very intelligent to me, and really know what they are talking about. And I think I still have much to learn before I will feel comfortable posting there.

The second reason is more of a practical one: I often have problems expressing myself in english. I know my english isn't that bad (or I really do hope!) but mostly it is far not sufficient to express what I really want to say, and therefor, I think it is wiser not to post, to avoid misunderstandings, and also to avoid to come across childish in an advanced discussion.

This leads to a lot of frustrations for my part, posting in ME Mirth isn't that challenging.