Leaf by Niggle, etc... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

07-07-2002, 12:51 PM

Hi, I'm new here so there has probably been a topic like this already, but never mind, eh?
So.
Has anybody read Tolkien works such as Leaf by Niggle, Farmer Giles of Ham, etc? I think they are aimed at a slightly younger audience than LOTR, but they're sill great! Just wondering, because I haven't yet met anyone on my travels who has read them...

The Fifth · 07-07-2002, 12:52 PM

Yes, I have read most of those stories. They are quite good.

Tigerlily Gamgee · 07-07-2002, 01:46 PM

I have not, but they are on my used book store list [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
The Border's by me has a few, so as soon as I get more $$.... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Luthien_ Tinuviel · 07-07-2002, 02:57 PM

Actually, "Leaf by Niggle" is quite difficult to understand, so I don't think it would be aimed at a younger audience than LOTR. <font color="purple"> BTW, Welcome to the Downs!

Eärendil · 07-07-2002, 03:50 PM

I am not sure if I have read Leaf by Niggle (Hm...don´t remember, shame on me!) I have read Farmer Giles from Ham though (I have it), and I thought it was good, and kinda cute. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Elrian · 07-07-2002, 04:24 PM

I've read alot of those works, Farmer Giles, Roverandom, Mr Bliss, Adventures of Tom Bombadil and so on. Good stuff! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Tigerlily Gamgee · 07-07-2002, 07:03 PM

Oooo... how is The Adventure of Tom Bombadil? I am curious about that one, though I can't find it anywhere (I have a music book with a song inspired by it).

Eowyn of Ithilien · 07-07-2002, 08:15 PM

I've read Farmer Giles, but I'm yet to get my hands on the rest :S

Nar · 07-07-2002, 09:01 PM

I loved Farmer Giles of Ham and the Adventures of Tom Bombadil. Farmer Giles of Ham is hilarious. Leaf by Niggle is haunting-- it's about creating something so huge it can't be really finished in a lifetime. There are only a few authors I've encountered who had the nerve to kill their hero off half way through the story, and you slowly realize it-- Leaf by Niggle, as far as I can tell, ends in purgetory.

[ July 07, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

[ July 07, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

Estelyn Telcontar · 07-08-2002, 03:21 AM

"Leaf by Niggle" is definitely not a children's story!! I just finished rereading Carpenter's biography of Tolkien, and JRRT wrote it to overcome a crucial time in his writing. It is quite autobiographical, to niggle meaning spending much time on (sometimes unimportant) details. Tolkien's own perfectionism and the hindrance it was in finishing his work deeply troubled him. I find the story very touching, quite personal. And Nar, it doesn't end in purgatory, it goes on after that into a paradise happiness.

littlemanpoet · 07-08-2002, 05:06 AM

The Adventures of Tom Bombadil are two poems that are fun reading. The first is about how Tom meets Goldberry. The second is about how Tom has a little meeting with Farmer Maggot, so there' a tie-in to the Fellowship of the Ring there, and it's verrrry suggestive and mysterious... Great fun!

I've read everything but Mr. Bliss. I found Roverandom a little difficult to wade through, but interesting.

Nobody has mentioned my favorite of Tolkien's littler stories: Smith of Wooton Major. It was written in the 60s, and has the feel of an elegy. You get the sense that Tolkien is Smith, and he's aware that he's had a wonderful life tramping about in Faerie, and now it's time to pass on the star of entry to someone else - notably not his own son (Christopher?), but to the 'villain's' grandson - 'not an obvious choice'. The depictions of Faerie are economical and breathtaking. My personal favorite, and very hard to find these days.

[ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: littlemanpoet ]

Child of the 7th Age · 07-08-2002, 07:46 AM

I have another favorite which hasn't been mentioned. In 1970, Tolkien published "Bilbo's Last Song," a poem with beautiful illustrations by Pauline Baynes. One page shows Bilbo's memories of his many adventures during his life; the facing page depicts the procession to Grey Havens, including the figures of Gandalf and Galadriel, and the meeting with Frodo and Sam, as well as the hobbits' goodbyes.

I put an extract from the poem in my signature, since I loved it so much.

It is a poem of both sadness and joy. It is clear, however, perhaps even clearer than in the LotR itself, that Bilbo is looking foward to experiences beyond those which were known to him in Middle-earth. Some have suggested that this was Tolkien's way of saying goodbye to life and welcoming the future that lay beyond the circles of this world. The author died just three years later in 1973.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Nar · 07-08-2002, 02:52 PM

Thanks Estelyn, it's been a long while since I read that. I did think Niggle had moved on to a better place, but I thought it was a higher level of purgatory and he still had further to travel as the story ended. I thought that shift in the middle of the story was an amazingly gutsy plot twist. I'll have to read it again-- a very haunting story. I'll never forget Tolkien's image of that single leaf that represented the huge and beautiful tree.

I've read Smith of Wooton Major, Littlemanpoet, it's a strange, cool, silvery tale. Yes, I remember the passing of the 'gift' of faerie-- through a Christmas cake! We should all treat that fruitcake with more respect. (Ok, it wasn't exactly a fruitcake, it was frosted. But it might well have had fruit in it, traditional christmas cakes usually did. It could have been the fruitcake of faerie!) The image of the star on the forehead as a sign of the gift was lovely. I think I'll have to read that one again also. As I recall, most of Smith's adventures in the land of faerie weren't described. Tolkien concentrated on his entry into the land and the passing of the gift. It was very much about stages of life and initiations.

I believe I have read the poem of Bilbo's last journey, Sharon, somewhere on the web it must have been. More transitions-- studio to purgatory to heaven, ordinary life to faerie world to sage by the fireplace, Middle Earth to Sea to Tol Eressea and on. Even Tom has a transition in his 'Adventures' --finding Goldberry and giving up the bachelor life. Doesn't seem to dimn his spirits any, obviously enigmas are good at transitions.

[ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

07-08-2002, 03:14 PM

Wow, I've never met anyone else who's read those books!
I don't know why I said it's a childrens story, it clearly isn't! I think I had a caffeine overdose at the time, sorry...
Leaf by Niggle IS a really haunting story, and I also LOVE Smith of Wooton Major (by Tolkien) if anyone has read that too?

mark12_30 · 07-08-2002, 03:49 PM

Hi,

I just finished Roverandom. It's about the little toy dog that Tolkien's four-year-old son Michael lost at the seashore. The toy gets enchanted by a wizard and has numerous adventures.

The story is for youngsters (it was after all written for Michael to make him feel better) BUT it also has enough humor to make it enjoyable for adults to read to kids, and there is some "eucatastrophe" (poignant, beautiful, profound, tear-jerking stuff) there as well.

I highly recommend it.

--Helen

Melephelwen · 05-28-2003, 11:20 AM

I read Roverandom, Smith of Wootton Major, Farmer Giles of Ham and Mr. Bliss. (Just a note on the last one: A Gaffer Gamgee is mentioned! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] )
I have Tales from The Perilous Realm on my shelf, ready to be read. It contains Farmer Giles of Ham, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, Leaf by Niggle and Smith of Wootton Major. And then I read whichever Tolkien-book I find in my library.
My favourite next to the Middle-Earth-related so far is Roverandom. I think the ending is so cute, with the original owner being Two's grandmother and the fate of Artaxerxes (that's his original name, right?) etc. That book is just brilliant! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

07-07-2002, 12:51 PM	#1
Elgiva Guest Posts: n/a	Leaf by Niggle, etc... Hi, I'm new here so there has probably been a topic like this already, but never mind, eh? So. Has anybody read Tolkien works such as Leaf by Niggle, Farmer Giles of Ham, etc? I think they are aimed at a slightly younger audience than LOTR, but they're sill great! Just wondering, because I haven't yet met anyone on my travels who has read them...

07-07-2002, 12:52 PM	#2
The Fifth Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mordor Posts: 427	Yes, I have read most of those stories. They are quite good. __________________ - Ringwraith #5, Servant of the Eye

07-07-2002, 01:46 PM	#3
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	I have not, but they are on my used book store list [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] The Border's by me has a few, so as soon as I get more $$.... [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

07-07-2002, 02:57 PM	#4
Luthien_ Tinuviel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: A very lovely tree-hut in the Chunnel. Posts: 804	Actually, "Leaf by Niggle" is quite difficult to understand, so I don't think it would be aimed at a younger audience than LOTR. <font color="purple"> BTW, Welcome to the Downs! __________________ I am a nineteen-year-old nomad photographer who owns a lemonade stand. You know what? I love Mip.

07-07-2002, 03:50 PM	#5
Eärendil Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Valinor (RtL: 1220 miles) Posts: 562	I am not sure if I have read Leaf by Niggle (Hm...don´t remember, shame on me!) I have read Farmer Giles from Ham though (I have it), and I thought it was good, and kinda cute. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ Jag ska aldrig göra dig illa. Inte igen. Åtminstone inte mycket, åtminstone inte hårt. Kommer du ihåg? Då vi fortfarande kunde skratta, le på ett äkta vis. Jag tänker på det ibland. Det smärtar. För aldrig har du väl varit. Längre bort. Från mig.

07-07-2002, 04:24 PM	#6
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	I've read alot of those works, Farmer Giles, Roverandom, Mr Bliss, Adventures of Tom Bombadil and so on. Good stuff! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

07-07-2002, 07:03 PM	#7
Tigerlily Gamgee Hostess of Spirits Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Meduseld Posts: 1,055	Oooo... how is The Adventure of Tom Bombadil? I am curious about that one, though I can't find it anywhere (I have a music book with a song inspired by it). __________________ ~ ExerciseJunky.com (Hobbits fitness of choice!)~ ~Lady of Rohan: An Eowyn Fansite ~ ~The NEW/OLD Barrow Downs Photo Page~

07-07-2002, 08:15 PM	#8
Eowyn of Ithilien Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Australia Posts: 277	I've read Farmer Giles, but I'm yet to get my hands on the rest :S __________________ But of bliss and glad life there is little to be said, before it ends; as works fair and wonderful, while still they endure for eyes to see, are their own record, and only when they are in peril or broken for ever do they pass into song.

07-07-2002, 09:01 PM	#9
Nar Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 228	I loved Farmer Giles of Ham and the Adventures of Tom Bombadil. Farmer Giles of Ham is hilarious. Leaf by Niggle is haunting-- it's about creating something so huge it can't be really finished in a lifetime. There are only a few authors I've encountered who had the nerve to kill their hero off half way through the story, and you slowly realize it-- Leaf by Niggle, as far as I can tell, ends in purgetory. [ July 07, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ] [ July 07, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

07-08-2002, 03:21 AM	#10
Estelyn Telcontar Princess of Skwerlz Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles) Posts: 7,500	"Leaf by Niggle" is definitely not a children's story!! I just finished rereading Carpenter's biography of Tolkien, and JRRT wrote it to overcome a crucial time in his writing. It is quite autobiographical, to niggle meaning spending much time on (sometimes unimportant) details. Tolkien's own perfectionism and the hindrance it was in finishing his work deeply troubled him. I find the story very touching, quite personal. And Nar, it doesn't end in purgatory, it goes on after that into a paradise happiness. __________________ 'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'

07-08-2002, 05:06 AM	#11
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	The Adventures of Tom Bombadil are two poems that are fun reading. The first is about how Tom meets Goldberry. The second is about how Tom has a little meeting with Farmer Maggot, so there' a tie-in to the Fellowship of the Ring there, and it's verrrry suggestive and mysterious... Great fun! I've read everything but Mr. Bliss. I found Roverandom a little difficult to wade through, but interesting. Nobody has mentioned my favorite of Tolkien's littler stories: Smith of Wooton Major. It was written in the 60s, and has the feel of an elegy. You get the sense that Tolkien is Smith, and he's aware that he's had a wonderful life tramping about in Faerie, and now it's time to pass on the star of entry to someone else - notably not his own son (Christopher?), but to the 'villain's' grandson - 'not an obvious choice'. The depictions of Faerie are economical and breathtaking. My personal favorite, and very hard to find these days. [ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: littlemanpoet ]

07-08-2002, 07:46 AM	#12
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	I have another favorite which hasn't been mentioned. In 1970, Tolkien published "Bilbo's Last Song," a poem with beautiful illustrations by Pauline Baynes. One page shows Bilbo's memories of his many adventures during his life; the facing page depicts the procession to Grey Havens, including the figures of Gandalf and Galadriel, and the meeting with Frodo and Sam, as well as the hobbits' goodbyes. I put an extract from the poem in my signature, since I loved it so much. It is a poem of both sadness and joy. It is clear, however, perhaps even clearer than in the LotR itself, that Bilbo is looking foward to experiences beyond those which were known to him in Middle-earth. Some have suggested that this was Tolkien's way of saying goodbye to life and welcoming the future that lay beyond the circles of this world. The author died just three years later in 1973. sharon, the 7th age hobbit [ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

07-08-2002, 02:52 PM	#13
Nar Wight Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 228	Thanks Estelyn, it's been a long while since I read that. I did think Niggle had moved on to a better place, but I thought it was a higher level of purgatory and he still had further to travel as the story ended. I thought that shift in the middle of the story was an amazingly gutsy plot twist. I'll have to read it again-- a very haunting story. I'll never forget Tolkien's image of that single leaf that represented the huge and beautiful tree. I've read Smith of Wooton Major, Littlemanpoet, it's a strange, cool, silvery tale. Yes, I remember the passing of the 'gift' of faerie-- through a Christmas cake! We should all treat that fruitcake with more respect. (Ok, it wasn't exactly a fruitcake, it was frosted. But it might well have had fruit in it, traditional christmas cakes usually did. It could have been the fruitcake of faerie!) The image of the star on the forehead as a sign of the gift was lovely. I think I'll have to read that one again also. As I recall, most of Smith's adventures in the land of faerie weren't described. Tolkien concentrated on his entry into the land and the passing of the gift. It was very much about stages of life and initiations. I believe I have read the poem of Bilbo's last journey, Sharon, somewhere on the web it must have been. More transitions-- studio to purgatory to heaven, ordinary life to faerie world to sage by the fireplace, Middle Earth to Sea to Tol Eressea and on. Even Tom has a transition in his 'Adventures' --finding Goldberry and giving up the bachelor life. Doesn't seem to dimn his spirits any, obviously enigmas are good at transitions. [ July 08, 2002: Message edited by: Nar ]

07-08-2002, 03:14 PM	#14
Elgiva Guest Posts: n/a	Wow, I've never met anyone else who's read those books! I don't know why I said it's a childrens story, it clearly isn't! I think I had a caffeine overdose at the time, sorry... Leaf by Niggle IS a really haunting story, and I also LOVE Smith of Wooton Major (by Tolkien) if anyone has read that too?

07-08-2002, 03:49 PM	#15
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	Hi, I just finished Roverandom. It's about the little toy dog that Tolkien's four-year-old son Michael lost at the seashore. The toy gets enchanted by a wizard and has numerous adventures. The story is for youngsters (it was after all written for Michael to make him feel better) BUT it also has enough humor to make it enjoyable for adults to read to kids, and there is some "eucatastrophe" (poignant, beautiful, profound, tear-jerking stuff) there as well. I highly recommend it. --Helen __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

05-28-2003, 11:20 AM	#16
Melephelwen Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: the Middle of Nowhere Posts: 291	I read Roverandom, Smith of Wootton Major, Farmer Giles of Ham and Mr. Bliss. (Just a note on the last one: A Gaffer Gamgee is mentioned! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ) I have Tales from The Perilous Realm on my shelf, ready to be read. It contains Farmer Giles of Ham, The Adventures of Tom Bombadil, Leaf by Niggle and Smith of Wootton Major. And then I read whichever Tolkien-book I find in my library. My favourite next to the Middle-Earth-related so far is Roverandom. I think the ending is so cute, with the original owner being Two's grandmother and the fate of Artaxerxes (that's his original name, right?) etc. That book is just brilliant! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ We're all following a strange melody We're all summoned by a tune We're following the piper And we dance beneath the moon