Illuvitar=Aslan - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Guildo · 09-18-2002, 01:07 PM

Im not exactly sure this is the right place for this discussion, but it came to me as a good thing to talk about. i have been involved in Tolkien books for a long time, but i just begain to read the entire "Chronicles of Narnia"
Last night i had a dream that Aslan was Illuvitar and singing songs to the Ainur which where all the animals in "the Wizards Nephew"
My question i guess is, i know Tolkien and Lewis where friends and conversed on there Books, But just how much, and is it safe to say they helped write each others books. Could Illuvitar( Tolkien) and Aslan (Lewis) have helped create each others worlds.

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Guildo ]

Rimbaud · 09-18-2002, 01:14 PM

Yes and no, is the answer. For more information on the Inklings, see here and here, might as well see here and why not also take a peek here.

Perhaps someone with more time than I could furnish you with a fuller answer, but that's probably enough for you to read at the moment...

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Rimbaud ]

Child of the 7th Age · 09-18-2002, 01:48 PM

If you want to compare the figures of Eru and Aslan, there is one obvious difference. Eru is, in most respects, very distant from Middle-earth. He has delegated his authority to the Valar. Aslan, by contrast, is involved. He offers himself as a sacrifice on the stone altar, and is constantly coming to the children.

Only one place in Tolkien, that I know of, is there an indication that Eru may one day "come into" Arda itself. This possibility is stated in the discussion between Andreth and Finrod in Morgoth's Ring.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

Arwen Imladris · 09-18-2002, 02:03 PM

I think that Aslan was more like Jesus then Illuvatar. You are right in that they are both god-like figures, but they are different in many other ways.

merlilot · 09-18-2002, 07:18 PM

I agree with Arwen. Now, if Illuvatar/Eru had had a child, THEN we could say that the child was = to Aslan. "The Emperor Across the Sea" in Narnia is more accurate for Illuvatar.
I think it is definitely safe to say that they helped each other, and perhaps Narnia is just the story of Middle Earth after the 3rd age (and flipped compass points).
Did anyone else note that Narnia would be "Chasm of Tales" in Elvish?

Mithuial · 09-18-2002, 08:27 PM

I love the fact that Tolkien and Lewis were friends because they're my two favorite authors. Yes, they read each other's stuff, and I'm sure that they had many influences on one another's writing. I agree that Aslan is much more of a Christ figure than Eru is. Tolkien uses Christ figures in his work, but there are more than one and none of them fit directly into the category of: "Oh, this dude is definately Jesus." I love the way Lewis uses Aslan to make Jesus seem more real and personnel. I think that Lewis definately has a gift for making religion/Jesus more easy to understand for us.

Gayalondiel · 09-20-2002, 08:04 AM

I'd say that Aslan is definately more like a Jesus figure. In 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe' Aslan sacrifices himself according to the Emperor's magic and laws. He makes it quite clear that it is impssible to go against the Laws, which suggests that Eru is much more on a par with the elusive Emperor who never shows himself in Narnia, but is represented there by Aslan in much the same way as the Valar represent Eru.

Tirned Tinnu · 09-20-2002, 02:40 PM

What a nice dream that must have been! I'm curious, was Alsan a baritone, or a tenor? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Guildo · 09-21-2002, 10:50 AM

Haha probably a Baritone it was a low Voice and i dont think i could make out the words, like Gregorian Chant, but ofcourse you know how vague dreams are.

09-18-2002, 01:07 PM	#1
Guildo Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Forgoten lands of the South Posts: 119	Illuvitar=Aslan Im not exactly sure this is the right place for this discussion, but it came to me as a good thing to talk about. i have been involved in Tolkien books for a long time, but i just begain to read the entire "Chronicles of Narnia" Last night i had a dream that Aslan was Illuvitar and singing songs to the Ainur which where all the animals in "the Wizards Nephew" My question i guess is, i know Tolkien and Lewis where friends and conversed on there Books, But just how much, and is it safe to say they helped write each others books. Could Illuvitar( Tolkien) and Aslan (Lewis) have helped create each others worlds. [ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Guildo ] __________________ "You cant always get what you want.... But if you try sometimes you just my find.... you get what you need." Glen Sight

09-18-2002, 01:14 PM	#2
Rimbaud The Perilous Poet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Heart of the matter Posts: 1,062	Yes and no, is the answer. For more information on the Inklings, see here and here, might as well see here and why not also take a peek here. Perhaps someone with more time than I could furnish you with a fuller answer, but that's probably enough for you to read at the moment... [ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Rimbaud ] __________________ And all the rest is literature

09-18-2002, 01:48 PM	#3
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	If you want to compare the figures of Eru and Aslan, there is one obvious difference. Eru is, in most respects, very distant from Middle-earth. He has delegated his authority to the Valar. Aslan, by contrast, is involved. He offers himself as a sacrifice on the stone altar, and is constantly coming to the children. Only one place in Tolkien, that I know of, is there an indication that Eru may one day "come into" Arda itself. This possibility is stated in the discussion between Andreth and Finrod in Morgoth's Ring. sharon, the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

09-18-2002, 02:03 PM	#4
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	I think that Aslan was more like Jesus then Illuvatar. You are right in that they are both god-like figures, but they are different in many other ways. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

09-18-2002, 07:18 PM	#5
merlilot Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Brandy Hall, Buckland, the Eastmarch of the Shire Posts: 204	I agree with Arwen. Now, if Illuvatar/Eru had had a child, THEN we could say that the child was = to Aslan. "The Emperor Across the Sea" in Narnia is more accurate for Illuvatar. I think it is definitely safe to say that they helped each other, and perhaps Narnia is just the story of Middle Earth after the 3rd age (and flipped compass points). Did anyone else note that Narnia would be "Chasm of Tales" in Elvish? __________________ <--- and Billy Boyd. Thanks for the pic Alatariel (hope I spelled it right) even if i took it without permission

09-18-2002, 08:27 PM	#6
Mithuial Animated Skeleton Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Doriath Posts: 35	I love the fact that Tolkien and Lewis were friends because they're my two favorite authors. Yes, they read each other's stuff, and I'm sure that they had many influences on one another's writing. I agree that Aslan is much more of a Christ figure than Eru is. Tolkien uses Christ figures in his work, but there are more than one and none of them fit directly into the category of: "Oh, this dude is definately Jesus." I love the way Lewis uses Aslan to make Jesus seem more real and personnel. I think that Lewis definately has a gift for making religion/Jesus more easy to understand for us. __________________ "And Maglor answered: 'If it be truly the Silmaril which we saw cast into the sea that rises again by the power of the Valar, then let us be glad; for its glory is seen now by many, and is yet secure from all evil.' Then the Elves looked up, and despaired no longer, but Morgoth was filled with doubt." -The Silmarillion.

09-20-2002, 08:04 AM	#7
Gayalondiel Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: My own little wierd, wierd world Posts: 133	I'd say that Aslan is definately more like a Jesus figure. In 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe' Aslan sacrifices himself according to the Emperor's magic and laws. He makes it quite clear that it is impssible to go against the Laws, which suggests that Eru is much more on a par with the elusive Emperor who never shows himself in Narnia, but is represented there by Aslan in much the same way as the Valar represent Eru. __________________ Not another ****ing Elf! ~C.S.Lewis

09-20-2002, 02:40 PM	#8
Tirned Tinnu Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Patchogue NY Posts: 158	What a nice dream that must have been! I'm curious, was Alsan a baritone, or a tenor? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ 'Perilous indeed,' said Aragorn, 'fair and perilous; but only evil need fear it, or those who bring some evil with them. Follow me!'

09-21-2002, 10:50 AM	#9
Guildo Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: The Forgoten lands of the South Posts: 119	Haha probably a Baritone it was a low Voice and i dont think i could make out the words, like Gregorian Chant, but ofcourse you know how vague dreams are. __________________ "You cant always get what you want.... But if you try sometimes you just my find.... you get what you need." Glen Sight