How to read a much longer Silmarillion - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

**lindil** · 09-17-2002, 03:25 PM

How to read a much longer Silmarillion [w/out waiting for the glaciel speeded efforts of the translations from the Elvish group!]:

This is a simple guide designed to let one experience 70% or so of what will be in a Revised Silmarillion w/ out waiting for the final version.
This does not take into account the many additions which UT, and HoME 12 can make to the 2nd and 3rd age materials but deals solely w/ the 1st age and a few appendices.

You will need the following books:

HoME 10 [MR]
11 [WotJ]
12[PoME]
and UT

For simplicities sake I am assuming use of the published Silmarillion as the primary text [ for which chapter #’s are given]although a truer picture and more satisfactory reading would be gained by using the latest versions in Morgoth’s ring and The War of the Jewels for most events prior to say chapter 20. There are many and difficult textual problems in the latter part of the Silmarillion which hopefully the group working revised silmarillion will clear up, but for now the Published Silmarillion is the only satisfactory [ or not] ending available.

1. Add ‘The faithful stone’ from UT to the end of Chapter 17.
2. Add the ‘Athrabeth Finrod ha Andreth’ pp.304-326 MR after the Faithful Stone
3. Insert ‘of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin’ [UT] prior to chapter 21 of the 1977/2001 [ and then omit paragraphs 1- 7 of chapter 23]
4. for chapter 21 use The Narn I Hin Hurin in UT.You will have to follow CRT’s notes to weave into the ’Narn’ the material in the Silmarillion ch.21
5. Also add Wanderings of Hurin to the beginning of the ‘Ruin of Doriath’ and omit all paragraphs prior to the paragraph beging with … Now Hurin crossed over Teiglin.

As appendices add:

1. Osanwe-Kenta a remarkable essay on the communication mind to mind amongst Ainur and incanates, also much lore on the Hroa[body] and fea [spirit] of Ainur and Incarnates. from the Vinyar Tengwar journal # 39
2. Laws and Customs among the Eldar [2 versions] pp. 207 – 227 HoME 10 [ MR]
3. Commentary on the Athrabeth and p.329-350 JRRT wrote a cryptic note on the paper covering tis essay that it should eb the last item in the Silm appendices.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=--
Note re: app. 4 & 5 there will be places where contradictions with the Silm text occur. If you want a Silm as contradiction free as possible [ for the experiment of reading thios version anyway] you may want to leave them out.

4. Quendi and Eldar page 357 and on . HoME 11 [WotJ]
5. the Shibboleth of Feanor idealy this largely linguistic essay would have it’s many historical passages on the Noldorin princes removed and placed in the Silm proper, until such time as that is done [ side-project anyone?]it is still fascinating as a standa alone addendum.

There is certainly a substantial section from Finwe and Miriel which can be added but I elimanated it from the list for the time being due to [for me at least] reasons of complexity of presentation.

My specialty, such as it is, is in broad strokes and general ideas so I will be most grateful for feedback concering details of pages and chapters, and such. I had an impulse idea [& pondered on the mounting guilt of a lack of finished project in the Silm project] and pretended I had the time and hacked it out. so there may well be errors and gaps, for which you the readers can but help improve [please].

I would also be interested in hearing from anyone who has read the Silmarillion a few times already and , is willing to try adding the above additions [ w/ or w/out the appendices] and report back to us all as to how the ‘1st ed New Revised Silmarillion’ reads, in comparison w/ the compressed 'Official version'.

**As an update on the ‘revised Fall of Gondolin project’ [ which will incorporate Of Tuor from UT, The Book of Lost Tales ‘FoG’, and bits of HoME 4] hopefully folks will see in the not too distant future a Whole new ‘Fall of Gondolin chapter’ both in the outline above and available for reading and comment in the ‘Silm forum’. It is well underway and a new Silmarillion project member Antoine graciously took it upon himself to incorporate all of the approved and semi-approved changes to the FoG. Which Maedhros [ I previously and wrongly attributed the editorship to Mhorham, sorry about the mix up] edited in a downs suitable format.

As I stated above the above proposed additons are simply the bigger pieces of the Silmarillion [ and related 1st age lore] left out. The project mentioned above will hopefully also add in the myriad of small fragments scattered throughout HoME and UT as well as harmonizing the many conflicts.

This is posted in both the ‘the books’ and ‘Silm’ forums but feel free to place any comments here.

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

mark12_30 · 09-17-2002, 10:11 PM

lindil, this is GREAT. How come you didn't post this BEFORE i went on vacation? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I've been mulling your last post on Osanwe, need time to type. Good to see it in the outline though!

GreatWarg · 09-17-2002, 10:21 PM

Thank you, lindil! That will be much appreciated by me, though I have read all of them seperately. It will be easier to see the links between the histories, and create a better understanding of such things. I have often wondered how people memorize every fact and detail, and it struck me that they were perhaps reading them in particular order or way. Now I see they must have connected them in a way that makes sense. I will thoroughly enjoy my next reading of UT and The Silm!

**lindil** · 09-18-2002, 12:01 PM

Helen, Great Warg [ and H-I] you are all of course most welcome.

Great Warg, as for memorizing every fact, I can not promise that this will help, as I have no mind for the legendarium compared to the 3 or so folks who I consider the loremasters around here, but it should enable you to see a wider view of the 1st age than before.

Again I hope to hear back from anyonwho tries to read the expanded silm as to their impressions and opinions. This will only be an appetizer compared to the full course Ainulindale --> 3rd age "Translations from the Elvish" which God willing will someday appear. But it will hopefully tide someover and inspire others to pitch in.

What I most look fwd to seeing is a synnthesis and harmonization of all of the 2nd and much of the 3rd age materials, creating 1 long narrative which should be Silmarillion sized I imagine. All told this will come well within range of the 3 volume 'Silmarillion' JRRT envisioned - though the content will not be exactly the same.

Anyway I will be reading through the above myself and willl report back. I have done bits and peices of the above myself [ esp Turin and Tuor] but never including the Morgoth's Ring material.

Hopefully we will see Fall of Gondilin added 'soon'. Then for the First Age the largest remaining peices [ I think are the Finwe and Miriel material, some of the The Shibboleth of Feanor material and an actual splicing of the above list into the Primary texts. Kind of a nice way to look at it actually. Almost makes it look doable [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ]

09-17-2002, 03:25 PM	#1
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	How to read a much longer Silmarillion How to read a much longer Silmarillion [w/out waiting for the glaciel speeded efforts of the translations from the Elvish group!]: This is a simple guide designed to let one experience 70% or so of what will be in a Revised Silmarillion w/ out waiting for the final version. This does not take into account the many additions which UT, and HoME 12 can make to the 2nd and 3rd age materials but deals solely w/ the 1st age and a few appendices. You will need the following books: HoME 10 [MR] 11 [WotJ] 12[PoME] and UT For simplicities sake I am assuming use of the published Silmarillion as the primary text [ for which chapter #’s are given]although a truer picture and more satisfactory reading would be gained by using the latest versions in Morgoth’s ring and The War of the Jewels for most events prior to say chapter 20. There are many and difficult textual problems in the latter part of the Silmarillion which hopefully the group working revised silmarillion will clear up, but for now the Published Silmarillion is the only satisfactory [ or not] ending available. 1. Add ‘The faithful stone’ from UT to the end of Chapter 17. 2. Add the ‘Athrabeth Finrod ha Andreth’ pp.304-326 MR after the Faithful Stone 3. Insert ‘of Tuor and his coming to Gondolin’ [UT] prior to chapter 21 of the 1977/2001 [ and then omit paragraphs 1- 7 of chapter 23] 4. for chapter 21 use The Narn I Hin Hurin in UT.You will have to follow CRT’s notes to weave into the ’Narn’ the material in the Silmarillion ch.21 5. Also add Wanderings of Hurin to the beginning of the ‘Ruin of Doriath’ and omit all paragraphs prior to the paragraph beging with … Now Hurin crossed over Teiglin. As appendices add: 1. Osanwe-Kenta a remarkable essay on the communication mind to mind amongst Ainur and incanates, also much lore on the Hroa[body] and fea [spirit] of Ainur and Incarnates. from the Vinyar Tengwar journal # 39 2. Laws and Customs among the Eldar [2 versions] pp. 207 – 227 HoME 10 [ MR] 3. Commentary on the Athrabeth and p.329-350 JRRT wrote a cryptic note on the paper covering tis essay that it should eb the last item in the Silm appendices. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- Note re: app. 4 & 5 there will be places where contradictions with the Silm text occur. If you want a Silm as contradiction free as possible [ for the experiment of reading thios version anyway] you may want to leave them out. 4. Quendi and Eldar page 357 and on . HoME 11 [WotJ] 5. the Shibboleth of Feanor idealy this largely linguistic essay would have it’s many historical passages on the Noldorin princes removed and placed in the Silm proper, until such time as that is done [ side-project anyone?]it is still fascinating as a standa alone addendum. There is certainly a substantial section from Finwe and Miriel which can be added but I elimanated it from the list for the time being due to [for me at least] reasons of complexity of presentation. My specialty, such as it is, is in broad strokes and general ideas so I will be most grateful for feedback concering details of pages and chapters, and such. I had an impulse idea [& pondered on the mounting guilt of a lack of finished project in the Silm project] and pretended I had the time and hacked it out. so there may well be errors and gaps, for which you the readers can but help improve [please]. I would also be interested in hearing from anyone who has read the Silmarillion a few times already and , is willing to try adding the above additions [ w/ or w/out the appendices] and report back to us all as to how the ‘1st ed New Revised Silmarillion’ reads, in comparison w/ the compressed 'Official version'. **As an update on the ‘revised Fall of Gondolin project’ [ which will incorporate Of Tuor from UT, The Book of Lost Tales ‘FoG’, and bits of HoME 4] hopefully folks will see in the not too distant future a Whole new ‘Fall of Gondolin chapter’ both in the outline above and available for reading and comment in the ‘Silm forum’. It is well underway and a new Silmarillion project member Antoine graciously took it upon himself to incorporate all of the approved and semi-approved changes to the FoG. Which Maedhros [ I previously and wrongly attributed the editorship to Mhorham, sorry about the mix up] edited in a downs suitable format. As I stated above the above proposed additons are simply the bigger pieces of the Silmarillion [ and related 1st age lore] left out. The project mentioned above will hopefully also add in the myriad of small fragments scattered throughout HoME and UT as well as harmonizing the many conflicts. This is posted in both the ‘the books’ and ‘Silm’ forums but feel free to place any comments here. [ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

09-17-2002, 10:11 PM	#2
mark12_30 Stormdancer of Doom Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars Posts: 4,349	lindil, this is GREAT. How come you didn't post this BEFORE i went on vacation? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] I've been mulling your last post on Osanwe, need time to type. Good to see it in the outline though! __________________ ...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.

09-17-2002, 10:21 PM	#3
GreatWarg Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: East of the Misty Mountains Posts: 339	Thank you, lindil! That will be much appreciated by me, though I have read all of them seperately. It will be easier to see the links between the histories, and create a better understanding of such things. I have often wondered how people memorize every fact and detail, and it struck me that they were perhaps reading them in particular order or way. Now I see they must have connected them in a way that makes sense. I will thoroughly enjoy my next reading of UT and The Silm! __________________ "What shall we do, what shall we do!" he cried. "Escaping goblins to be caught be wolves!"

09-18-2002, 12:01 PM	#4
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Helen, Great Warg [ and H-I] you are all of course most welcome. Great Warg, as for memorizing every fact, I can not promise that this will help, as I have no mind for the legendarium compared to the 3 or so folks who I consider the loremasters around here, but it should enable you to see a wider view of the 1st age than before. Again I hope to hear back from anyonwho tries to read the expanded silm as to their impressions and opinions. This will only be an appetizer compared to the full course Ainulindale --> 3rd age "Translations from the Elvish" which God willing will someday appear. But it will hopefully tide someover and inspire others to pitch in. What I most look fwd to seeing is a synnthesis and harmonization of all of the 2nd and much of the 3rd age materials, creating 1 long narrative which should be Silmarillion sized I imagine. All told this will come well within range of the 3 volume 'Silmarillion' JRRT envisioned - though the content will not be exactly the same. Anyway I will be reading through the above myself and willl report back. I have done bits and peices of the above myself [ esp Turin and Tuor] but never including the Morgoth's Ring material. Hopefully we will see Fall of Gondilin added 'soon'. Then for the First Age the largest remaining peices [ I think are the Finwe and Miriel material, some of the The Shibboleth of Feanor material and an actual splicing of the above list into the Primary texts. Kind of a nice way to look at it actually. Almost makes it look doable [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.