moria - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

dwarfwarrior · 05-20-2003, 05:18 PM

how big was the dwarven army in moria in all its splendor?

Dain · 05-21-2003, 04:46 AM

Really big. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Phrim · 05-21-2003, 07:47 AM

I don't think Tolkien really gives a number anywhere. However, he does say this:

Quote:

The power of Moria endured throughout the Dark Years and the dominion of Sauron, for though Eregion was destroyed and the gates of Moria were shut, the halls of Khazad-dûm were too deep and strong and filled with a people too numerous and valiant for Sauron to conquer from without.

If Moria could withstand the forces of Sauron at the height of his power, and by strength of numbers at that, it must have been greatly populated indeed.

Mahal · 05-21-2003, 08:39 AM

But they also had their defence there caves and such

Scott · 05-21-2003, 04:15 PM

True, a fortress such as Moria is a great defence even with limited numbers, but Sauron's forces were so great at the height of his power that the defences wouldn't have been anything without a substantial force. Also, after the height of Moria's power Sauron managed to get a force of orcs into Moria to stir up some trouble. So, if the host of orcs could only penetrate Moria after it's height, at it's height it must have been pretty strong since the host Sauron sent would've been comparatively small too.

Nils · 05-21-2003, 06:07 PM

You've got to remember that Moria was home to three of the 7 branches of the Dwarven kindred. The survivors of Nogrod and Belegost swelled the numbers of Moria after the destruction of Beleriand.

[ May 21, 2003: Message edited by: Nils ]

dwarfwarrior · 05-22-2003, 05:52 PM

WAS THERE ANY COMPETITION BETWEEN HOUSES?YOU NEVER HEAR ABOUT DWARF VS DWARF LIKE YOU READ ABOUT ELF VS ELF IN THE SILMARILLION

**The Saucepan Man** · 05-22-2003, 06:07 PM

Hey, dwarfwarrior, lay off the shouting!

Well, there were the Petty Dwarves (exemplified by Mim and his sons), who were outcasts from mainstream Dwarvish society. That shows us that there was some Dwarf v Dwarf antagonism.

But I don't doubt, given Dwarvish greed for gold, jewels and the like, that there were more major disputes between Dwarves of different (or perhaps the same) houses. We just don't hear of them, in much the same way that we don't hear a lot about Dwarvish history. Elf (and Hobbit) history just happens to be much more comprehensively documented. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ May 22, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

Helkahothion · 05-23-2003, 09:02 AM

Quote:

But I don't doubt, given Dwarvish greed for gold, jewels and the like, that there were more major disputes between Dwarves of different (or perhaps the same) houses. We just don't hear of them, in much the same way that we don't hear a lot about Dwarvish history.

I think that the reason for that is that the squables did not result in tragic or Heroic deaths. Dwarves are greedy yes, but most of them have honour and leadership within, so I think they could live with each other. If not, they would have murdered each other a long while. If the fights between houses start, they would only have grown bigger. The leaders must have had great respect from the other dwarves. So the dwarves have a big sence of honour.

What I have been wandering about Moria, how did the Balrog from Lotr get in the depts of Khazad Dûm. It is stated that Balin's people only awoke him, so it must have been there. Where did it come from? It is obvious that it came from Ûdun.

Quote:

The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Ûdun.

But how did the Balrog travel such a big distance? Maybe he did fly?

Suilad,

Anuion

Aule · 05-23-2003, 11:14 AM

Wasn't it said that after the final overthrow of Morgoth some of the Balrogs managed to escape and hid themselves in the deep places of the earth.

They would have come from Angband, to say they flew would be contraversial as its still a subject that many ppl disagree about, but they were meant to run very fast so i suppose they could have managed it that way.
The Balrog must have found some secret way into the depths of Moria

Helkahothion · 05-24-2003, 09:56 AM

Quote:

The Balrog must have found some secret way into the depths of Moria

And that is why I think they have wings. I think the Balrog entered the same way he left. Is that possible?

05-20-2003, 05:18 PM	#1
dwarfwarrior Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 11	moria how big was the dwarven army in moria in all its splendor?

05-21-2003, 04:46 AM	#2
Dain Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Iron Hills Posts: 127	Really big. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Only I have looked through the shadow of the Gate. Beyond the shadow it waits for you still: Durin's Bane.

05-21-2003, 08:39 AM	#4
Mahal Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2003 Location: Paradox Realm Posts: 66	But they also had their defence there caves and such __________________ *A new technology does not add or substract something. It changes everything.*

05-21-2003, 04:15 PM	#5
Scott Wight Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Ohio/Grey Havens Posts: 183	True, a fortress such as Moria is a great defence even with limited numbers, but Sauron's forces were so great at the height of his power that the defences wouldn't have been anything without a substantial force. Also, after the height of Moria's power Sauron managed to get a force of orcs into Moria to stir up some trouble. So, if the host of orcs could only penetrate Moria after it's height, at it's height it must have been pretty strong since the host Sauron sent would've been comparatively small too. __________________ Those who the Gods would destroy, They first make mad. ~Those Crazy Greeks

05-21-2003, 06:07 PM	#6
Nils Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 129	You've got to remember that Moria was home to three of the 7 branches of the Dwarven kindred. The survivors of Nogrod and Belegost swelled the numbers of Moria after the destruction of Beleriand. [ May 21, 2003: Message edited by: Nils ] __________________ For by your words you will be justified and by your words you will be condemned ~Matthew 12:37

05-22-2003, 05:52 PM	#7
dwarfwarrior Pile O'Bones Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 11	WAS THERE ANY COMPETITION BETWEEN HOUSES?YOU NEVER HEAR ABOUT DWARF VS DWARF LIKE YOU READ ABOUT ELF VS ELF IN THE SILMARILLION

05-22-2003, 06:07 PM	#8
The Saucepan Man Corpus Cacophonous Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: A green and pleasant land Posts: 8,390	Hey, dwarfwarrior, lay off the shouting! Well, there were the Petty Dwarves (exemplified by Mim and his sons), who were outcasts from mainstream Dwarvish society. That shows us that there was some Dwarf v Dwarf antagonism. But I don't doubt, given Dwarvish greed for gold, jewels and the like, that there were more major disputes between Dwarves of different (or perhaps the same) houses. We just don't hear of them, in much the same way that we don't hear a lot about Dwarvish history. Elf (and Hobbit) history just happens to be much more comprehensively documented. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [ May 22, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ] __________________ Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind!

05-23-2003, 11:14 AM	#10
Aule Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hammering away in Valinor Posts: 126	Wasn't it said that after the final overthrow of Morgoth some of the Balrogs managed to escape and hid themselves in the deep places of the earth. They would have come from Angband, to say they flew would be contraversial as its still a subject that many ppl disagree about, but they were meant to run very fast so i suppose they could have managed it that way. The Balrog must have found some secret way into the depths of Moria __________________ For him that is pitiless, the deeds of pity are ever strange and beyond reckoning - of Melkor before his final downfall