Middle-earth 101 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 12-18-2002, 12:35 AM

I was reading the SF Chronicle and I came upon this interesting article. You can see the article here Middle-earth 101.

I found this very interesting. At SF state, there is a class on middle-earth and its based on the books, not the movies. I would really like to take this class, however I'm not sure if I want to go to SF state but I still applied there. Maybe they'll have a summer course.

Anyways, I'm glad to see that there is a class out there based on the works of Tolkien. I'm glad it doesn't deal with the motion pictures because that would only crate confusion and cloud the discussion. It also might deeply affect the 'tolkien virgins'. I also seem to relate to (a little) and like the teachers. I am not a huge sci fi or fantasy fan and I never go to conventions. I don't watch the X-files, star trek or any of that. And I think its great to have teachers focused on tolkien. They most likely have clear visions and views on that matter.

Also, it seems like a very honest class. The teacher knows if you know the material that well or not, and you obviously can't bs your way through the class or cruise through by watching the movies. It's strictly tolkien's work. I also like the fact that someone who read the book before now has a deeper sense of ME and the fact that they are more enlightened.

It makes me happy to see a class as advanced as this. It reminds me of the Barrow-Downs here, in this section, 'The Books.' I like the BD because you can discuss anything about ME. And the different sections allow for the more genre specific topics. I especially like this section, and I think that without Estelyn, this wouldn't mean that much to me. You have to admit, this site wouldn't be as good without Estelyn moderating. Keep up the good work!

But enough about that. I would like to see more classes like these. I see relations between this site and that class. Lets just focus on the 'Book' section though. The good thing about this site is that the book section is stricly books. You can talk all you want about anything you want about the books. I like that a lot. Also I like the really in depths discussions that we have here. I love arguing and explaining my points, and I love the challenges that some of you present to me and my points. I'm pretty sure most of you feel the same way. Now in that class, the thhing that I really would like about it (if I took it) is that the discussions are in person. You can better explain your points in person, I believe. And its a much faster discussion too. No typing, just talking. But the good thing about this site is that you can post/reply anytime and whenever you want. So which is better. I'd say BD because it pretty much won't end like that course will. But I think that that class would be a good experience.

So waht do you think about this article? Did you like it or not? And do you agree with me or disagree?

Galorme · 12-18-2002, 03:22 AM

Quote:

You better know Gondor from Rohan (two communities men live in) [sounds hard]. And if you can rattle off the family tree in the Third House of the Edain (a lineage of elves)[yessss if you say so], it won't hurt for the final.

I am not going to argue with it but its a bit over the top and also Tolkein is not really a writer worth learning a lot about and over analysing. There was no proper allegory, and you would only come out of it with knowledge about JRRT and his books, rather than about life or anything really useful. It sounds like it could be fun, or it could completely destroy the love i have for the art and beauty of the books. I don't think I would take the risk.

Kalimac · 12-18-2002, 01:04 PM

Since when did liberal arts courses have anything to do with life or being useful? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. Of course I'm slightly influenced by the fact that my college had a short course in STAR TREK - never took it, but sometimes wondered if it was any more useless than the "Aufklaerung: Sturm und Drang" courses I was suffering through.

I agree that it sounds a little over-the-top, though. Tolkien might be a good subject for a discussion seminar - there are Shakespeare and Milton seminars, and I think there's a good argument to be made that JRRT ranks up in their league - but it doesn't sound like that's quite what they're doing here, they're taking more of a science-class approach, and to be honest, if I want to spend hours memorizing names that don't necessarily mean anything to me, I'll take Intro to Chem which is at least vaguely useful.

Arwen Imladris · 12-18-2002, 03:26 PM

O.k., I have now figured out ware I am going to go to University... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] That would be soo cool! Finally and English class that I could pass! What fun. I probebly won't be able to go there anyway. It is too far away, and I don't like planes, they make my ears hurt. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] And besides, there is no garantee that they would still be doing that in a year or two or that I would be able to take that particular class with that particular teacher. Oh well. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

doug*platypus · 12-28-2002, 09:00 AM

I agree with Galorme. Why Tolkien? He's popular. I would love to go to that University and take that course. I'm sure they'll attract quite a few students that way. And what do students bring? Money. While not the only consideration, money is definitely a big one. Education is a business now, awful but true.

**lindil** · 12-28-2002, 09:32 AM

A class would be better I think for those who new the material inside and out and did not need to have time to look something up, it in essence be a meeting of loremasters, and for those who were well versed but not masters that could be inspring.

But for those who [like most of us] might need a day to look up who Aragorn's granfather was and wether or not he could or should have helped the Hobbit's with the White Wolves [ and wether their guarding of the Shire lead to it's scouring cause they were so used to being watched after], or more importantly have to think for a while on whether or not JRRT was alluding to the Incarnation of Christ in the Athrabeth ah Finrod Andreth and if so what are the implications for the rest of the Legendarium.

These kind of issues are best experienced on an online forum.

As for the course, your money would be better spent [ if you habe not already] buying the Silm, then re-reading LotR, buying UT and re-reading LotR,
buying the Letters and re-reading the LotR
buying home 3-5 and re-reading the LotR, buying HoME 6-9 and re-reading the LotR,
buying HoME 10 and 11 and re-reading the LotR,
Buying HoME 12 and re-reading the LotR and finally
buying BoLT 1 and 2 and re-reding the LotR.

You will come out 'knowing' more than that class for sure.

Oh and I forgot the Vinyar Tengwar issues with the Osanwe-Kenta essay! And then re-read the LotR!

Sorry for the money you can't beat the Downs... now if only we could get accredidation... [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Now on the other hand if it ws an entire major and I would be able to speak Quenya and write in all of the various modes of Cirith and Tengwar afterwards and have to create my own Silmarillion canon. And at the end I could teach at another University...

Then I could see the point!

[ December 28, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

12-18-2002, 12:35 AM	#1
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	Middle-earth 101 I was reading the SF Chronicle and I came upon this interesting article. You can see the article here Middle-earth 101. I found this very interesting. At SF state, there is a class on middle-earth and its based on the books, not the movies. I would really like to take this class, however I'm not sure if I want to go to SF state but I still applied there. Maybe they'll have a summer course. Anyways, I'm glad to see that there is a class out there based on the works of Tolkien. I'm glad it doesn't deal with the motion pictures because that would only crate confusion and cloud the discussion. It also might deeply affect the 'tolkien virgins'. I also seem to relate to (a little) and like the teachers. I am not a huge sci fi or fantasy fan and I never go to conventions. I don't watch the X-files, star trek or any of that. And I think its great to have teachers focused on tolkien. They most likely have clear visions and views on that matter. Also, it seems like a very honest class. The teacher knows if you know the material that well or not, and you obviously can't bs your way through the class or cruise through by watching the movies. It's strictly tolkien's work. I also like the fact that someone who read the book before now has a deeper sense of ME and the fact that they are more enlightened. It makes me happy to see a class as advanced as this. It reminds me of the Barrow-Downs here, in this section, 'The Books.' I like the BD because you can discuss anything about ME. And the different sections allow for the more genre specific topics. I especially like this section, and I think that without Estelyn, this wouldn't mean that much to me. You have to admit, this site wouldn't be as good without Estelyn moderating. Keep up the good work! But enough about that. I would like to see more classes like these. I see relations between this site and that class. Lets just focus on the 'Book' section though. The good thing about this site is that the book section is stricly books. You can talk all you want about anything you want about the books. I like that a lot. Also I like the really in depths discussions that we have here. I love arguing and explaining my points, and I love the challenges that some of you present to me and my points. I'm pretty sure most of you feel the same way. Now in that class, the thhing that I really would like about it (if I took it) is that the discussions are in person. You can better explain your points in person, I believe. And its a much faster discussion too. No typing, just talking. But the good thing about this site is that you can post/reply anytime and whenever you want. So which is better. I'd say BD because it pretty much won't end like that course will. But I think that that class would be a good experience. So waht do you think about this article? Did you like it or not? And do you agree with me or disagree? __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

12-18-2002, 01:04 PM	#3
Kalimac Candle of the Marshes Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Flyover Country Posts: 780	Since when did liberal arts courses have anything to do with life or being useful? [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]. Of course I'm slightly influenced by the fact that my college had a short course in STAR TREK - never took it, but sometimes wondered if it was any more useless than the "Aufklaerung: Sturm und Drang" courses I was suffering through. I agree that it sounds a little over-the-top, though. Tolkien might be a good subject for a discussion seminar - there are Shakespeare and Milton seminars, and I think there's a good argument to be made that JRRT ranks up in their league - but it doesn't sound like that's quite what they're doing here, they're taking more of a science-class approach, and to be honest, if I want to spend hours memorizing names that don't necessarily mean anything to me, I'll take Intro to Chem which is at least vaguely useful. __________________ Father, dear Father, if you see fit, We'll send my love to college for one year yet Tie blue ribbons all about his head, To let the ladies know that he's married.

12-18-2002, 03:26 PM	#4
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	O.k., I have now figured out ware I am going to go to University... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] That would be soo cool! Finally and English class that I could pass! What fun. I probebly won't be able to go there anyway. It is too far away, and I don't like planes, they make my ears hurt. [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img] And besides, there is no garantee that they would still be doing that in a year or two or that I would be able to take that particular class with that particular teacher. Oh well. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

12-28-2002, 09:00 AM	#5
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	I agree with Galorme. Why Tolkien? He's popular. I would love to go to that University and take that course. I'm sure they'll attract quite a few students that way. And what do students bring? Money. While not the only consideration, money is definitely a big one. Education is a business now, awful but true. __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-28-2002, 09:32 AM	#6
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	A class would be better I think for those who new the material inside and out and did not need to have time to look something up, it in essence be a meeting of loremasters, and for those who were well versed but not masters that could be inspring. But for those who [like most of us] might need a day to look up who Aragorn's granfather was and wether or not he could or should have helped the Hobbit's with the White Wolves [ and wether their guarding of the Shire lead to it's scouring cause they were so used to being watched after], or more importantly have to think for a while on whether or not JRRT was alluding to the Incarnation of Christ in the Athrabeth ah Finrod Andreth and if so what are the implications for the rest of the Legendarium. These kind of issues are best experienced on an online forum. As for the course, your money would be better spent [ if you habe not already] buying the Silm, then re-reading LotR, buying UT and re-reading LotR, buying the Letters and re-reading the LotR buying home 3-5 and re-reading the LotR, buying HoME 6-9 and re-reading the LotR, buying HoME 10 and 11 and re-reading the LotR, Buying HoME 12 and re-reading the LotR and finally buying BoLT 1 and 2 and re-reding the LotR. You will come out 'knowing' more than that class for sure. Oh and I forgot the Vinyar Tengwar issues with the Osanwe-Kenta essay! And then re-read the LotR! Sorry for the money you can't beat the Downs... now if only we could get accredidation... [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] Now on the other hand if it ws an entire major and I would be able to speak Quenya and write in all of the various modes of Cirith and Tengwar afterwards and have to create my own Silmarillion canon. And at the end I could teach at another University... Then I could see the point! [ December 28, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ] __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

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