The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Middle-Earth Discussions > The Books
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-26-2002, 06:26 PM   #1
MaladyMirkwood
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Mirkwood
Posts: 14
MaladyMirkwood has just left Hobbiton.
Sting weird question about elves

alright this is a stupid question but its been nagging me so my question is :
do elves age in any way, shape, or form?
i mean like getting a year older every hundred years, because in the movie both arwen and elrond and the rest of the elves
all look young but i doubt they were born like that. Do they get to a certain agre and just stop aging or something?
I hope you can answer this and i know its a stupid question but oh well. Im not sure this if this would go in here or in the books or somewhere else... please try and help, thanks.
__________________
Ho!Ho!Ho! to the bottle i go to heal my heart and drown my woe rain may fall and wind my blow and many miles be still to go but under a tall tree i will lie and watch the clouds go sailing by
MaladyMirkwood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2002, 06:36 PM   #2
VanimaEdhel
Etheral Enchantress
 
VanimaEdhel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wellesley College!
Posts: 1,461
VanimaEdhel has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to VanimaEdhel Send a message via MSN to VanimaEdhel
Silmaril

Yes, they physically age a bit. An "Elvish" year is 144 solar years, but I am sure that they age a bit slower than that physically. They say that Elrond was ancient-looking when Frodo awakes in Rivendell (well, he was ancient), so yes, Elves age, just not as quickly as we do. Don't Elves come of age at about 100 years old? Right? Or did I just hallucinate reading that somewhere?
__________________
"I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes
VanimaEdhel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2002, 07:33 PM   #3
-Imrahil-
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Dol Amroth, upon the Bay of Belfalas
Posts: 259
-Imrahil- has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I'm in agreement with VanimaEdhel.

Elves definately do age, just not as quickly as mortals. And I'm not sure about 100 being the coming of age. Interesting though.
__________________
My body is broken. I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed. I felled the black serpent. A grim morn, and a glad day, and a golden sunset!
-Imrahil- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2002, 07:46 PM   #4
the mortal elf
Wight
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...
Posts: 201
the mortal elf has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to the mortal elf
Tolkien

So are you guys saying that when an elf is 50 they look about ten? Or do elves grow (outwardly) like humans and then just stop around twenty? This has been hovering at the back of my mind for some time now; I'm glad someone brought it up.
__________________
My imaginary friend says you have problems.
the mortal elf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2002, 02:49 PM   #5
Dimaldaeon
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Ireland & damn proud of it.
Posts: 125
Dimaldaeon has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to Dimaldaeon Send a message via AIM to Dimaldaeon
Sting

Elves grow at the same rate as men when they are very young but slow down as they begin to leave childhood and can be over 50 when the reach their final adult form (I think)
__________________
Dear Saddam, Do not disunderestimate me.Yours G.W.Bush

You're not drunk if you can still hold onto a blade of grass to stop yourself from falling off the face of the Earth
Dimaldaeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2002, 03:32 PM   #6
Arwen Imladris
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Arwen Imladris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In a box with a fox
Posts: 1,347
Arwen Imladris has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Well, think of some elves we all know and love. Arwen: she was a couple of hundred? years old and looked like she was 20-40ish in human years
Cirdan: Thousands of years old, looked like a very old man

Conclusion: Yes, elves age, slower than humans, but they do age.
__________________
"Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."
Arwen Imladris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2002, 10:39 PM   #7
Joy
Spirit of a Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Wandering
Posts: 1,012
Joy has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Arwen, some couple of hundred years?? Let's say a couple of thousand!

Arwen was born in year 241 of the Third Age, the War of the Ring began in 3018 of the Third Age.

As for the Elves aging, he is a quote from the Laws and the Customs of the Eldar from Morgoth's Ring - HoME 10.

Quote:
Morgoth's Ring (HoME X)
Of the Laws and Customs Among the Eldar
Ęlfwine's Preamble

The Eldar grew in bodily form slower than Men, but in mind more swiftly. They learned to speak before they were one year old; and in the same time they learned to walk and to dance, for their wills came soon to the mastery of their bodies. Nonetheless there was less difference between the two Kindreds, Elves and Men, in early youth; and a man who watched elf-children at play might well have believed that they were the children of Men, of some fair and happy people. For in their early days elf-children delighted still in the world about them, and the fire of their spirit had not consumed them, and the burden of memory was still light upon them.

This same watcher might indeed have wondered at the small limbs and stature of these children, judging their age by their skill in words and grace in motion. For at the end of the third year mortal children began to outstrip the Elves, hastening on to a full stature while the Elves lingered in the first spring of childhood. Children of Men might reach their full height while Eldar of the same age were still in body like to mortals of no more than seven years. Not until the fiftieth year did the Eldar attain the stature and shape in which their lives would afterwards endure, and for some a hundred years would pass before they were full-grown.
Quote:
Morgoth's Ring (HoME X)
Of the Laws and Customs Among the Eldar

[...] It might be thought that, siince the Eldar do not (as Men deem) grow old in body, they may bring forth children at any time in the ages of their lives. But this is not so. For the Eldar do indeed grow older, even if slowly: the limit of their lives is the life of Arda, which though long beyond the reckoning of Men is not endless, and ages also. Moreover their body and spirit are not separated but coherent. As the weight of the years, with all their changes of desire and thought, gathers upon the spirit of the Eldar, so do the impulses and moods of their bodies change. This the Eldar mean when they speak of their spirits consuming them; and they say that ere Arda ends all the Eldaliė on earth will have become as spirits invisible to mortal eyes, unless they will to be seen by some among Men to whose minds they may enter directly. [...]
Hope this helps.
__________________
God bless,
Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com
http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com

As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?
Joy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2002, 04:54 PM   #8
Arwen Evenstar the Fair
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Gondor
Posts: 235
Arwen Evenstar the Fair has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

WOW!
__________________
*~Arwen~*
Arwen Evenstar the Fair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2002, 05:06 PM   #9
the witch king
Wight
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Minas Morgul, Morgul Vale, Mordor
Posts: 201
the witch king has just left Hobbiton.
The Eye

i think they all age at different rates look at Galadriel shes soooooo old but looks quite youthful
__________________
'Whenever death may surprise us, let it be welcome if our battle cry has reached even one receptive ear and another hand reaches out to take up our arms.'~ Che Guevara.
the witch king is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2002, 12:52 AM   #10
Estelyn Telcontar
Princess of Skwerlz
 
Estelyn Telcontar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!Estelyn Telcontar has reached the Cracks of Doom and destroyed the Ring!
Silmaril

MaladyMirkwood, this is not a stupid question, and I'm moving it to the Books forum to give the experts a chance to answer.
__________________
'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...'
Estelyn Telcontar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2002, 01:17 AM   #11
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 573
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Send a message via AIM to MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie
1420!

the way i see it is that they do age but slow down the older they get. You probably won't know what i'm talking about here but i think its like one of those graphs- a parabola or something. The line never touches the y or x-axis but keeps getting closer. In other words elves never die of old age but keep aging. Sound weird huh...
__________________
Do Not Touch

-Willie
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2002, 09:39 AM   #12
Luinėcolloien
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 31
Luinėcolloien has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Luinėcolloien
Silmaril

Well in the books, Elrond, Elladan, and Elrohir were all described as looking 'niether young, nor old' (or something of that like.) So I take this to to mean that they were all quite old but being Elves made them just quite not look it. Or, something else I thought of, which is probably not right but, Galadriel is universally taken to be very fair and youthful looking, correct? Nothing about her looking young nor looking old. Do you think that Elrond, Elladan, and Elrohir looked that way because they were not 100% Elf? Maybe Elrond looking that way had something to do with only being half Elven and same with the twins, being 3/4 Elven. Well, I'm straying off topic, so I should stop now. Thanks.
__________________
(*·.(*·.·¤·.·*).·*)
«Luinėcolloien»
(.·*(.·*·¤·*·.)*·.)
Luinėcolloien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2002, 10:11 AM   #13
Guildo
Wight
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: The Forgoten lands of the South
Posts: 119
Guildo has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Guildo
Tolkien

Keep in mind that the way they LOOK in the movie isnt exactly the way Tolkien described them in the book.
__________________
"You cant always get what you want.... But if you try sometimes you just my find.... you get what you need."

Glen Sight
Guildo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2002, 03:12 PM   #14
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 573
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Send a message via AIM to MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie
1420!

Good point Guildo. Also, I think that elve's physical appearances do not really age that much once they are adults. I think that they just absorb more knowledge and get wiser as they get older. Also, you can think of it like it is for hobbits- a 30 year old hobbit is like a 13 year old human, I think (please correct me if i'm wrong).

>>>-------------------------->
__________________
Do Not Touch

-Willie
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2002, 12:25 AM   #15
Keneldil the Polka-dot
Wight
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Michigan
Posts: 128
Keneldil the Polka-dot has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Forgive me for not having quotes to back this up right now, but in reading the Sil. I remember thinking that an elf's state of mind sometimes had something to do with how old they looked. Captives released from Angband, etc. Also those who had seen the light of Valinor seemed to be described differently as if being exposed to that environment raised their state of mind and somehow altered their appearance.
__________________
"Trust in the ball Jake.....and throw yourself."
Keneldil the Polka-dot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:13 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.