Letter to PJ

[LePetitChoux]

So many people here have had things to say about the film, and how it was not nearly as based on the books as the Fellowship of the Ring. Now, why don't we all contribute, and write PJ a letter, not a "I HATE YOU" kind of letter, more of a "Look, you made some mistakes which we feel are rather bad". If anyone thinks this is a good idea, please respond, either via PM, this thread or e-mail, as I'm sure that if something like 100 people wrote to him, he'd take some notice...what do you think?

[Aragorn2002]

It's a pretty good idea, but PJ's only human, you can't expect better
________
Stocks to buy now

[ReededGoat]

From what I heard, he keeps a pretty good eye on what's going in the Tolkien Internet world. <BR>I've said it elsewhere, but I will re-iterate - I think it is a disservice to call PJ's choices 'mistakes'. They were obviously well-thought out decisions within their vision of the films - you don't make decisions that aren't well thought out when you're tackling a project of this cost and magnitude.<BR>That said, as I've also stated elsewhere, I think a lot of the choices were unecessary and detracted from the book. In many cases, if they had just stuck to the book, things would have worked better - not just for the adaptation, but for the consideration of the films as just films unto themselves. One big problem was when they started swapping events around in the timeline as it stands in the book - making certain things happen before things that happened after them in the book (wow - that's a nutty sentence - I think y'all get what I mean, though). Since Merry and Pippin's storyline has got a lot to do with hanging around with Treebeard and the non-hasty ents, I'm surprised they didn't try to moderate the monotony of their scenes by having a scene in Treebeard's house - they could have transposed one of the walking scenes to his house to help break up the monotony - I mean, come on, their walking through Fangorn through the WHOLE MOVIE!<BR>Anyways, to get back to the point, I think it would be great if PJ and Co. put out an FAQ online that illuminates all the changes they made and why they felt they needed to make them. I don't look at is as needing to be 'answerable' to us hard-core fans, it would be a cool gesture towards us, though.

[TealDude3]

PJ didn't make any mistakes. The movie was well thought out. I think you need to get over the fact that things that weren't in the books are in the movies.

[Massharpoon]

I know changes must be made from book to movie, like cutting things out, or short.<BR>** Spoilers **<P>I also think things very important to the overall story should not have been forgoton (Faramir and Frodo dialogue).<P>Why make Pippin trick Treebeard. Please tell me what logic there was int that.<P>We need a dramatic death sequence so lets bring elves to Helms Deep and Kill Haldir.<BR>Even though his character was never realy built up people will be sad. BAH!<P>These must be the things that you refer to as well thought out.

[Sithren]

*wonders if she could complain about pj*

[Sithren]

*uses a very depressedd voice* "he left out the one seed! How can Sam heal the shire if he doesn't have it?"

[Isenna]

Sam's not going to! They are leaving it out. There is no scouring of the Shire in ROTK the movie. <P>He did make a mistake, it bugs me to death every time I see it. So don't read this is you don't want to be annoyed. (It's actually the fault of everyone on the movie set, namely the script supervisor) When Boromir is dying, on the shots from behind Aragorn, you can see Boromir's hands on Aragorn's shoulder. But the shots from the side, there's no arm sticking up there. Grr. They shot from one angle before lunch, and one after.

I think you guys (and everyone, for that matter) are forgetting that PJ can't make these perfect. Even if he could, why should he?<P>This is only his interpretation of LOTR. Some things are different... so what? Maybe he felt that some parts weren't needed, and he came up with other parts to help the story flow along.<P>Y'know the whole Elrond/Arwen deal? I think that was totally unneeded, but do I whine and complain? No. Be glad that these are even being made into a movie. These movies have brought in thousands upon thousands of new Tolkienatics, and without PJ, LOTR wouldnt be as popular today as it was, say, 10 years ago.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Not perfect, but better Derlin, that's what we're aiming for. And if you don't complain, then good for you. And sometimes I'm not even glad he made the movies. Sometimes I think that it would be better if he just left it alone rather than show <I>his</I> image of LotR. He pretty much butchered it. As someone said (sorry, I can't remember who) when we were saying PJ dropped the ball, "I think PJ dropped the ball and shattered it, then he tried to superglue it together and add a cheap coat of paint and call it TTT." I don't think that taht was teh exact quote but its thebest I can do, sorry. Anyways, I think that this was too kind. Its more like PJ diliberately smashed the ball. He really changed it, too much and a lot of it was unnecessary. So I'm not really that grateful for the movies, well at least for TTT. But we should be glad he's even making the movie? Well yes, but if he promises us that he'd follow the book as closely as possible, and only make necessary changes, and only leave out parts that don't relate to Frodo or the quest for the ring, and he doesn't keep them, then I'm not very grateful at all. Not only is it his responsibility to do this, but it's his promise. He didn't live up to his responsibility or his word. That's why I'm not grateful. We didn't get what we were promised. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> This is only his interpretation of LOTR. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's not what he promised us. He said he wasn't going to do that. He said he'd follow the book as closely as possible and not make any unnecessary changes. So, should we be happy with what we got? A lot of us, including me, say no.

[Nurumaiel]

Pete was keeping his word with TTT. He said that of all the movies, TTT would be the least like the books.<P>I'm sure lots of people have no clue how much love and work Pete and the crew put into making these films.<P>We should be thankful that Pete decided to make the movies, not some weirdo who didn't know what he was doing.<P>Oh, just one thing. I'm not calling any of you who are mad at Pete weirdos. Just meaning... oh, I'm sure you know.<P>Think about it... I'm sure he could have done worse.<P>~Nurumaiel

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think that was a rash statement by Jackson, that he would stay "as close to the books as possible."<P>I never took it too seriously, maybe that's why I have taken the changes he's made so well.

[*Varda*]

Butchered it? Hardly.<P>PJ obviously loved the books, but while making the movie, he had to keep other things in mind as well <P>- keeping the audience interested<BR>- making a profit<BR>- not confusing people<P>Sure, he made some changes, but to my mind, it makes the movie all the more interesting to go and see. In any case, what difference would it make if we wrote a letter to PJ now? The movies have been made.<P>As for the 'mistakes' with arms etc. Every movie has them. It really is impossible to edit every single one of them out, and it doesn't make it a bad film anyway.<P>And if you think that's bad, what about the Bakshi cartoon?<P>We ought to be content with what we have. And if you consider it to be that bad, make your own version when you're older.<P>~Varda

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

I prefer 'animated film' over cartoon. But did Bakshi ever promise to stick as closely to the books as possible, without making any unnecessary changes? No. That was a great film, but I was introduced to it at nine and that's how I was introduced to LotR, and ME. Well, there were a lot of things left out and changed in that film. But they did not have the funding and the attention that PJ had. They couldn't even finish the second part because they ran out of funding and it was even animated. So don't even try to compare those two films in this argument. It doesn't work.<P>As I have said before. If PJ had done the job correctly, then seeing the movie would be like reading the book. He wouldn't need to worry about not confusing people, making a profit, and keeping teh audience interested. This film was made for the fans. If it were to introduce people to Tolkien, then its not right. Because if it were, he should have had the movies extremely close to the books, and it should be like reading the books. So then, if people liked the movie, they should like the books. But that's not the way it happened at all. If watching the movie was like reading the books, then people would stay interested if they liked the books or will like the books. And if this was not made for teh fans, like PJ said it was, then it's made for the $$$ and that's sad.

[Durelin]

All I have to tell him is to keep up the good work! TTT ROCKED! I've seen it twice already, there were no mistakes!

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Well Durelin, it seems you have trouble knowing what you want. If you do not have something to contribute to the mistakes, then don't come here and say stuff like it rocked. You got p*ssed when I did exactly what you're doing right now on your thread. So please leave and don't be a hypocrit.

[Durelin]

The thread is not a "There were mistakes" it is a letter to PJ, I'm just saying what I would like to put in a letter to PJ! Last I checked, this was not a "mistake finders club"! If it is, I am definetly leaving!

[Durelin]

Ya know, they're going to have to seperate us Willie! We're gonna have a time out in opposite corners!

MLD... would you please take a moment and actually be realistic? If there weren't the chance of a profit, no director or organisation would have even attempted this. Also, were Master Jackson to follow as closely as you should like, we would be facing three movies of about 12 hours each. I doubt that even you, as steadfast and stouthearted a fan as you must be, would be able to sit through such a length. Now, I admit, there were some changed I disliked...such as the alterations to Faramir and Frodo's parts, but such things were to be expected. And, now think about this, seeing as Jackson put so much time and effort in getting everything as close as possible (and when you get down to hiring even linguists, armourers, and bladesmiths, that shows true fidelity to the tale), then would he not be loathe to change any more than he absolutely needed to? Of a certainty, I would love the movies to be exactly like Tolkien's masterwork; but, regrettable though it may be, it simply is not possible. And perhaps, just perhaps, this so-called 'false' fanbase you hinted at, could be just the motivation Master Christopher Tolkien needs to release yet another installment of his father's genius.<P>And as for the letter...I'm sure he's fully aware of each and every discrepancy. A letter then would be most likely pointless. Now, a letter to Christopher in request of more material, in the other hand... ^_^

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Valiendil <P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> would you please take a moment and actually be realistic? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am realistic. Just try to see it from my point of view.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> If there weren't the chance of a profit, no director or organisation would have even attempted this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>True, but it alsmost seems that it got in the way of what PJ really hoped to accomplish, or at least said he did.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I doubt that even you, as steadfast and stouthearted a fan as you must be, would be able to sit through such a length. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh yes I could, believe me, I could. And I'm sure that there are others who would too. And if that's what I got, then I would be very happy. Although, I would need a couple intermissions to get food/drink, stretch, and go to the bathroom.<P>Durelin, this thread says<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> and write PJ a letter, not a "I HATE YOU" kind of letter, more of a "Look, you made some mistakes which we feel are rather bad". If anyone thinks this is a good idea, please respond... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So it is a letter to inform PJ of what we feel as mistakes.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Ya know, they're going to have to seperate us Willie! We're gonna have a time out in opposite corners! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're right. But I think they'll need an awful lot of strong people to do it. It's pretty funny if you think about it. <p>[ December 21, 2002: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I would write a letter to PJ to thank him for the parts where he did stay loyal, for the elvish that was used, for the direct quotes from the book..etc, etc.<BR>I think he stayed truer to the books than any other director would have (though I don't know for sure). I commend him for his hard work and dedication. I commend everyone who worked on this movie for the same.<BR>I think he and they deserve a round of applause, not the constant scowling of "purists".

[Túroch]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> All I have to tell him is to keep up the good work! TTT ROCKED! I've seen it twice already, there were no mistakes! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What, did you say? No mistakes! Good grief man, he bent whole plotlines out order, he mutated characters into shells of their former selves. I he was making a rendition of TTT then I would consider thoses to be BIG mistakes. However, if he was making a movie to<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> - keeping the audience interested<BR>- making a profit<BR>- not confusing people <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>then he's made a mistake of a differnt nature. Is that what we want in a TTT rendition. A film made exclusivly for moolah, a film targeted at audiences who only want a simple action flick without any bothersome plotlines to get in the way. Ok PJ has not done this exclusively, he has kept it somewhat close to the book but not near what the first movie was. I loved the first movie it caught a a vision of what Tolkien intended for the book. Now, I especialy will never know what Tolkien meant for the stroy, but the safest route to ensure making a meaningfull movie is to stick close to the book. Instead PJ oversimplified characters and changed them arouond to fit HIS vision, not the book. One of the things that makes the LotR so interesting and endearing is the complex themes within the story. By pandering to an audience whose sole concern is for a movie that is entertaining to the jaded masses and not a movie whoses story has depth and "character", PJ has destryoe the fragile balance of TTT, turning it into a horror that mind reels from. Or at least mine, (I reel easily).<P>Bringing the elves to Helms Deep is not interpretation. It is an altering of the story to pander to what PJ (or more likely the whoel screenplay staff) hope that the audience will find "cool" or "awesome". Oh I guess that battle as described in the book isn't to my liking, well i'll rewrite to make it "better". The dissapearence of Eomer is not an interpretation, neither is the new Faramir, or the new Theodeon. It is a deliberate change or "butchery" (yes I call it that) of the book to fit PJ's vision. He's not sticking to the book he sticking to his view of what the book should be or more properly how it can be profitable and modernized. His profitable view. I don't know weather or not PJ loved books. He must of liked them to make a movie out of them, but his position of power over the new era of Tolkein interpretation has twisted his view of how the books should be represented. His concept is much akin to revisionist history. The idea that the victors write who was good and who was evil. This new moive is a revision of TTT, PJ now writes who was a wimp and who was evil. What do you say, Faramir was actually not a jerk. Eh less interesting that way.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> This is only his interpretation of LOTR. Some things are different... so what? Maybe he felt that some parts weren't needed, and he came up with other parts to help the story flow along. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What gives him the right. I can forgive any interpretation or view of the original work. But this movie is to far from the TTT to be an interpretation. Some call it and rightly so a "fan-fic" version of the TTT. True enough. It isn't the original autors work and shouldn't be presented as the true story. So he found what parts in th srory he didn't approve of and replaced them with his own imaginings. Sounds like this film is a patchwork of some Tolkien and more PJ.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I think you guys (and everyone, for that matter) are forgetting that PJ can't make these perfect. Even if he could, why should he? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Of course he can't make them perfect and I don't expect him to. However, he proved he can stick closer to the book then this. He did it in the first movie so why not now.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> PJ didn't make any mistakes. The movie was well thought out. I think you need to get over the fact that things that weren't in the books are in the movies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I depends on weather i'm going to see the TTT, or PJ's new movie which has many elements from the TTT but unfortunatly doesn't have the story. It's all your point of view. After the first movie I expected to see the TTT. I guess not. I do agree he thought this out well. Why though should something be in the movie and not the book. If the movie was made first, then it's explainable. If not, well i'd consider it a mistake. Not in the sense that PJ (or the screenwriters) didn't mean it happen but that it is false when compared to the book. If the book is correct, then the movie can only be on thing. Incorrect.<P>Now, it is not like I can't forgive PJ for changing it when he "movieisd" the book. I understand that some things must be changed so the book can be put on the screen. I can forgive PJ for everything he did FotR. Almsot everything. But everyone will agree that TTT is much farther from the book. He showed he could make a good rendition of the book as in FotR, why not TTT?<P>Now I don't want to write an "I HATE YOU" kind of letter. I wan't to ask him why he did what he did and will he do the same for RotK. Not an argument but a plea explanation.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

I completely agree with Turoch. I think that the question that most of us want to know can be put most simply as 'Why?'. I can't understand it but I really want to know. It just tears me up inside. Maybe if we knew why and if it was a reasonable cause, or semi-reasonable, then we might take it into consideration. But for the time being, we don't know why. That is one thing we want to find out in our letter, so will the people who keep coming in here and dragging on about why we should like the movie and why it rocked, please leave. We know that you like or love it, and that's fine. But don't go telling us we should like it. It's our opinions and you can't tell us what to feel/think. We feel PJ was not justified in what he did to TTT, so stop telling us he is.<P>Also I think that a good Question for PJ would be 'why did you follow the book so closely in FotR and then decide to stray so far in TTT?' And, 'why did you do change so much when you said that you would follow the books as closely as possible and not make any unnecessary changes? Why did you make so many unnecessary changes?'<P>That's what I mainly want to know.

[Orual]

I think that saying that PJ "butchered" the Two Towers is going a little far. Now, don't get me wrong, I was as horrified as any to hear my poor Faramir order the Ring brought to Gondor. I was as puzzled and hurt as any to hear Frodo channelling Sauron, and Theoden channelling Saruman. I was as confused as any to see Elves at Helm's Deep. (I don't know if anybody was sad at Haldir's death, but I can't say I was.) I think that we need to cut PJ some slack, though, and not be so incredibly critical of every alteration he makes. Personally, I enjoyed the Two Towers, especially the second time. Sure, there were low points. Points that dipped considerably lower than the lowest point in Fellowship. But all in all, Peter Jackson did a marvelous job. It's a beautifully visioned movie, obviously created by a man who has invested all of the effort he had to give into this project. The actors are great. It isn't the book; it was a hard thing for me to accept, but I have. Just breathe deeply and, if you can, see it again. You'll be braced for all the changes, and it'll be better, I promise. So let's not dog pile on Peter Jackson, he's done so much for us.<P>And for those who say they wish he'd never made the movies: there are a lot of people who were either encouraged to finish the books by the movies (guilty), or people who were introduced to the books by the movies. Would you deny those people the chance to enter Middle-earth? I think that's selfish.<P>~*~Orual~*~

[greyhavener]

Dear Peter,<BR>Thank you for taking on this daunting task. Thank you for Edoras and Helm's Deep. They were perfect, as were the Shire and Rivendell in the first movie.<P>Thank you for Sam's speech at the end, and how you've depicted Sam in general. <BR>Thank you for Gollum, he was perfect. <BR>So was Gandalf.<P>I think you've done a disservice to the characters of Faramir and Treebeard because they are more worthy and heroic than you've portrayed them. The world needs all the heroes they can get: those who are thoughtful and deliberate as well as those who wise, tenacious, brave, and enduring. <P>Perhaps you give your audience too little credit. We will tolerate some lengthier conversations interspersed in the action. <P>It's been a joy to hear elvin. The sets have been spectacular. The casting and acting have been on the mark. Most of all these movies has been bright spots in an industry that has so much "fallen into shadow."<P>Love,<BR>Greyhavener

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

Well put, greyhavener. That's one of the most sensible criticisms I have read.<P>As for people who disagree with my loving the movie, that's fine. I will disagree with your hating it. At least we disagree together.

[Iarwain]

Then, we can all live in joyful tolerance of each other's dissagreements! <P>Of course, pretty soon (in about a year), I will probably have grown used to TTT and will also love it (sort of). <P>In the Purest Jollity,<BR>Iarwain

Cheers, greyhavener m'Lord. All in good sooth, and simple enough to be well thought of.

[GreyIstar]

I think you all need to get over it. Its movie for PJ's sake. I didn't go in expecting the book. I didn't go in expecting the Fellowship to be the book. It wasn't. Even after that he flat out told you that TTT was going to diverge from the book further than the other 2. I don't see that as mistakes, and I certainly don't see that as destroying. I think a lot of you are just a tad bit naive to think that these movies would be the same. No one would make them the same as the book. Why aren't you guys on here yelling about conversations that took place in Bag End in the book taking place in Moria???? Lets get really anal about it!!! Heck Aragorn is changed. Everyone has been changed save maybe Saruman and Sauron.<P>No the only mistake in Two Towers I saw was a geographical mistake. Legolas said the Orcs were turning North East to Isengard. It should have been North West.<P>The rest is just movie making. If you have that big of a problem with the movie then stick with the book. I am a 1/3 of a way through TT right now and I'm going to see the movie again for a third time soon. The movies aren't as good as the books and thats ok because they are great movies.<P>Dear PJ,<P>Thanks for doing as good a job as I could possibly hope for. It is extremely entertaining and emotional. Even with some notable changes you stick to the feel, themes, and heart that Tolkien was conveying in his book. For that it makes these movies carry more weight than 99% of movies made. Id like to thank you for helping induce a major rise in book sales, and put the beloved book back into the spot light. I'm sorry to hear you won't be doing the hobbit after LOTR because I can't imagine anyone else being able to put Middle-Earth on screen better than you.<P>Sincerely a fan of both the books and the movies.<P>Put that on the end of your complaint letter and entitle it Appendix A.

[-Imrahil-]

Cheer GreyIstar! I agree with you. I'm tired of people bashing PJ. People do not know what he put into this, and although you MAY think it should have been based upon the books more, he made the decisions, he produced two great movies in my opinion. He keeps many characters identical to the book.<P>Salute PJ!

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Before I get started, let me adress Orual. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And for those who say they wish he'd never made the movies: there are a lot of people who were either encouraged to finish the books by the movies (guilty), or people who were introduced to the books by the movies. Would you deny those people the chance to enter Middle-earth? I think that's selfish. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am not selfish. I do not wish they weren't introduced to it. Sometimes I just wish that the movies weren't made. If I could change the past, at times I would make it so the movies never were, but the books were being advertised and sold. I think that statement you said was a tad bit ignorant. I would be selfish if I wished that those people weren't introduced to LotR or if I didn't care if they were or not because I wished that the movies never were and that only I got what I wanted. Now that would be selfish, but that's not how I feel. I only wish the movies were never made sometimes, but I do think that TTT was good. I liked it but there are things I really disagree with and dislike.<P>Ok, here's where I get started.<P>OH MY GOD! JESUS, MARY, AND JOSEPH!!!WILL YOU PEOPLE PLEASE LEAVE???<P>This is what the thread is about, here <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Now, why don't we all contribute, and write PJ a letter, not a "I HATE YOU" kind of letter, more of a "Look, you made some mistakes which we feel are rather bad". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It is not a thread to thank PJ for the films or to point out what you think was good, and DEFINATELY NOT to tell people they should get over it. I'm so [you know what] sick and tired of hearing you people in this thread compliment PJ and tell us to get over it and tell us how much effort he put in and tell us we should be grateful... If you don't have something you thought was a mistake and want to add it to this letter then LEAVE! I wish estelyn would start deleting posts or something. This is getting way out of hand and each time I hear it I get angrier and angrier. I try to controll it and my swearing too, but you people are just trying my (and other's) patience. No no no, you're going out of your way to push it further. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I think you all need to get over it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Give it time and some of us will, but others might not. We don't need to hear it again. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I didn't go in expecting the book. I didn't go in expecting the Fellowship to be the book. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I didn't either, and I think that no one did. Can you tell me of anyone who did? Even just one? No. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I think a lot of you are just a tad bit naive to think that these movies would be the same. No one would make them the same as the book. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>First of all, we are not naive. If anyone is, it's you. You are ignorant. Just because we're mad PJ didn't stick more closely to the book, and especially since he said he would and that he wouldn't make any unnecessary changes, doesn't mean we thought it would be the same. Second of all, no one, and I repeat, no one, thought that they would be the same as the book.<P>You did mention a mistake, but you didn't mention it in the part that had your letter. So you should edit your post and only leave in the part about your mistake. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I'm tired of people bashing PJ. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>We are not bashing him. We are criticizing him. There's a difference between the two; get it right.<P>And I'll only ask one more time, and in a nice manner. Will the people who do not have a mistake to contribute to the letter please leave.<p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[GreyIstar]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> First of all, we are not naive. If anyone is, it's you. You are ignorant. Just because we're mad PJ didn't stick more closely to the book, and especially since he said he would and that he wouldn't make any unnecessary changes, doesn't mean we thought it would be the same. Second of all, no one, and I repeat, no one, thought that they would be the same as the book.<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Then why do I keep reading: "Its horrible, its not the same as the book." ?<P>You are ignorant and misplaced. Appendix B.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> And I'll only ask one more time, and in a nice manner. Will the people who do not have a mistake to contribute to the letter please leave.<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR>I go where I choose and choose where I go. I heed not the warnings of idle strangers whose sole purpose is incite malcontent with some fine piece of work in its own right. Further insults only stir my antagonistic and stern view that they are two different entities.<p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: GreyIstar ]

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Then why do I keep reading: "Its horrible, its not the same as the book." ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Show me where that was said chief. If someone actually said it, then that person is exaggerating. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I go where I choose and choose where I go. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Oh what fine judgement you have junior. You seem to be lost. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I heed not the warnings of idle strangers whose sole purpose is incite malcontent with some fine piece of work in its own right. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>1. I'm not idle<BR>2. My sole purpose is not to incite malcontent<BR>3. My purpose is not at all to incite malcontent<BR>Conclusion: why you have me mistaken for someone else because I am not any of those. Now you're lost and your talking to a person who doesn't exist. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Further insults only stir my antagonistic and stern view that they are two different entities. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>When did I insult you?<P>Listen buster, you have nothing to contribute to this thread. You're lost so take my advice; leave. If you do not heed my warnings, then you will only become more lost and prove what poor judgement you have made.<p>[ December 22, 2002: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[LePetitChoux]

I don't think I quite explained my point quite as I wanted, so here is the new, revised Whole Point:<BR>I tried to specifically get people not to say "The movie was reall rubbish, Peter!", but to make their criticism constructive (OK, I know you can't re-make TTT based on just our opinions, but still). We shouldn't make Peter think we absolutely hated it, because I'm sure that we didn't! I am really annoyed by the mistakes, but I don't <I>hate</I> it. <BR>So now this is the thread for both pros and cons, WITH NO FLAMING! If you read something someone wrote and disagree with it, say so POLITELY and EXPLAIN YOUR ARGUMENT.<BR>That's all, really.

[LePetitChoux]

<B>greyhavener</B>, YES! That is precisely the kind of thing I meant!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Well, I think it's high time I close this thread for a while until everyone involved in the flaming cools down a bit. Those who post here, please read the first post to be sure that you are contributing to the topic. If you disagree with the opinion expressed by someone else, state your opinion without attacking the other(s). Before the thread reopens, I will edit posts to delete the flaming and the swearing. Both are not allowed here. Thank you!