Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page |
06-17-2003, 05:48 AM | #1 |
Wight
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 233
|
The Ring works by desire
In this forum it's often stated the Ring worked by letting the bearer think he could control it's power or by clinging on the greatest power of the wearer.
I personally don't think this is the case,but rather that the Ring worked by what the bearer desired.Sauron himself seems to have worked in this way (offering the Mirdain knowledge,the Dwarves or Erebor wealth and Saruman power,wich all of them desired)As the Ring has part of Saurons spirit,it's only obvious it would work in the same way.Gandalf himself said that the Ring would make terrible use of him as he'd use it to do good.Wanting to do good was what was Gandalfs desire. Galadriel and Elrond would probably be deceived in the same way.On Gollum,it worked by making use of his desire for knowledge and for a beautiful birthday present.Probably also of his paranoia,wich made him desire to be invisible.It nearly corrupted Frodo by making use of the burden it was for him in Mordor.The burden exhausted,and thereby weakened him,making him susceptible for the desire to claim the Ring for his own and use it's great power.It also tried to corrupt Sam,because he,as a gardener,feared for the destruction of plants and the destruction they already experienced and how he probably desired to heal all these hurts.It wasn't for nothing that he imagined himself as a master of gardeners when he wore the Ring.The only other one really resisting the power of the Ring seems to have been Bilbo,as he might not have had a real desire.He did have the desire to silently escape from the Sackville-Bagginses however.But this was a small and innocent desire wich the Ring could not really make use of. Tom Bombadil is a different story as he was completely happy as he was and didn't have a desire at all,as such the Ring didn't have power over him. In this way,even the Valar might have been susceptible to the power of the Ring,as they probably had desires as well.
__________________
Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't |
06-17-2003, 06:52 AM | #2 | |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hammering away in Valinor
Posts: 126
|
Quote:
Some good sounding ideas there [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
__________________
For him that is pitiless, the deeds of pity are ever strange and beyond reckoning - of Melkor before his final downfall |
|
06-17-2003, 11:48 AM | #3 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Out there with the truth. Come find me.
Posts: 317
|
The ring does work on desire, but always the desire to rule, to dominate, to order, etc. One of the reasons it was "safe" with Gollum for so long was that Gollum really only cared about himself, not about ruling others or making the world fit his concept of better. Even he, however, used it to gain an advantage socially in his village. Thankfully, he was too weak to make much use of it and could only take advantage of the sneaking about bit.
The thing that is unique about hobbits is that they don't have much of a ruling, hierarchical structure. No king of their own, no real rules except common sense and mutual respect. This could be why the domination aspect of the ring didn't work on them in the same way. Boromir, Gandalf, Galadriel, etc, would have used the ring to make the world "better" through ordering it and subjugating others. Sam is briefly tempted with that desire in his moments of thinking about making the world a garden, but his Hobbit-sense quickly kicks in.
__________________
But then there was a star danced, and under that was I born. |
06-17-2003, 12:27 PM | #4 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
|
It was the desire for power. That was the reason behind the ring wraiths and Gollum. The wraiths had a desire for power, so when the rings of power were given them they were depleted, and they succumbed tot he evil. Also with Gollum the One ring worked in a similar way, he now had the power to control his situation and his eating habits. He could now achieve his ends and not be caught for it. When Ring was his it fed the evil in Smeagol's heart till it became a second personality, hence Gollum. So yes desire is one of the ways in which the Rings of Power worked. I mean even the elves were corrupted by their desire of power, even if it were for good. Power is a very devious thing.
But that is only my openion.
__________________
Bloody Stumps!!! |
06-17-2003, 12:43 PM | #5 |
Wight
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 233
|
I don't think the Dwarves desired power,they desired wealth and even though no Dwarf ever wore the One Ring,the Seven Rings made them desire wealth.I suspect the One would have done the same to them. Ents probably wouldn't have been corrupted by lust for power but my their desire to live in peace and protect their forests.
__________________
Nothing is evil in the beginning,even Sauron wasn't |
06-17-2003, 04:02 PM | #6 | |||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
|
Noxomanus:
Quote:
Aule: Quote:
The X Phial: Quote:
Quote:
Noxomanus: Quote:
__________________
Do Not Touch -Willie |
|||||
06-17-2003, 05:53 PM | #7 | |||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
So, it appealed to Smeagol by making him regard it as his by rights, his birthday present, presumably because it perceived that he was more subsceptible to its influence than Deagol, and possibly more useful because of his sly and secretive ways. Then, when it felt its Master's power rising and perceived that Gollum was no longer of any use to it, it abandoned him no doubt expecting to be found by a Goblin, rather than the "most unlikely person imaginable" (clearly a mistake on its part). It seems that, despite its success in persuading Frodo to put it on at the most inopportune moments (The Prancing Pony, Weathertop), it was having difficulty breaking his Hobbit spirit. So, it went to work on another member of the Fellowship, choosing the most susceptible member, and (save for Aragorn) the one likely to get it closest to Mordor - Boromir. And it worked by appealing to his desire to use it for the good of his people, and by playing on his pride and ignorance in thinking that he would be able to use it in this way. (I mean ignorance here in the sense of Boromir ignoring the warnings of the wise concerning the dangers of trying to use it. He thought that he knew better.) It also tried to tempt Galadriel, which is interesting. It appealed to her desire to remain in ME and preserve her realm against the irrevocable onset of Man and the change that Man represented. It probably thought that she would attempt to use it to overthrow Sauron and that she would probably fail in the attempt. And, in my view, it was probably right. Galadriel, to her great credit, was able to resist its temptation and was rewarded in this by being allowed to return to Valinor. When there was no other option, the Ring also tried to tempt Sam. It appealed first to his gardening instincts, presumably thinking that someone trying to cultivate the Plateau of Gorgoroth would be easy prey for Orcs [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] .Then, when that it didn't work, it played on his sneaking desire to be a hero which, again, would have led him straight into trouble with Orcs and goodness knows what else. To Sam's even greater credit, he too resisted its temptation and, ironically, was later perceived by the Orcs to be a great Elven Hero. Of course, ultimately, the Ring paid the price of having corrupted Gollum, for he was so eaten with desire for it that he tried to seize it at the most opportune (for the good guys) of moments. Interestingly, it seems not to have picked up on its Master's own strange disquiet over Gollum, mentioned in The Hunt for the Ring in UT (which foreshadowed his ultimate doom). Or perhaps it did share that disquiet and this is the reason why it chose to abandon him. By the way, I make no apologies for treating the Ring here as another character, for that it precisely what it is. Gandalf regarded it in the same way in A Shadow of the Past. And it was, after all, a part of Sauron, and so is just as much a character in the story as him. Finally, on invisibility, I do not think that this was a power that it conferred just on those of its bearers that desired it. I see it as an inherent power of the Ring, linked to its connection to the spirit world. The wearer does not become truly invisible, but passes into the spirit world when wearing it. Hence, Frodo is able to see the Nazgul, creatures of the spirit world with no corporeal bodies, in their true forms while wearing it. Tom Bombadil excepted, I think that most, if not all, of those who wore it would have become invisible, although some, such as the Istari and those Elves (such as Glorfindel) who had "dwelt in the Blessed Realm" and already partly resided in the spirit world, would probably have been able to control this ability.
__________________
Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
|||
06-18-2003, 08:35 AM | #8 |
Deathless Sun
|
I always thought that the One Ring worked on weaknesses and desire. Just like Sauron, it played upon the weaknesses and the innermost desires of its bearer(s). That was always one of both Sauron's and Morgoth's strengths. The Gwaith-i-Mirdain are an excellent example of how Sauron could use that power to find out weaknesses and desires, and then act on them.
One good example is Isildur. He was probably much more independent and "masterful" than his father, Elendil, or his brother, Anarion. I imagine that deep down inside, he also resented the Elves greater strength, beauty, and life-span. I also believe the story in The Lost Road and Other Tales that Herendil/Isildur actually believed Sauron's lies, and it took a great deal of persuasion from his father to convince him otherwise. I think that some of that resentment carried over into his adulthood. During the Battle of the Last Alliance, Isildur lost two of the people that he had loved above all else, his father and his brother. I think that grief clouded his conscience, and probably drove him slightly mad. When he got the One Ring, and after Elrond, Cirdan, and Co. tried to persuade him to destroy it, he realized that finally, he had the upper hand. The Ring played on that realization, and drove him to keep it. That delusion eventually led to his death, and the death of his three eldest sons. Smeagol/Gollum is another good example. From childhood, I imagine, he had always loved sneaking around and being hidden. He also resented others and the company of other people. When Deagol found the Ring, Smeagol was immediately attracted by it and took the opportunity to kill Deagol. Smeagol made off with the Ring, which enhanced his ability to "slink and stink" about until his grandmother kicked him out. By now, I think Smeagol was fairly into his "transformation" to Gollum. He made his way into the Misty Mountains, because he wanted to be hidden and he wanted to find "secrets." We all know what happened from there as Bilbo found the Ring. Bilbo and Frodo, I think, were the two strangest Ringbearers because they didn't fit the "pattern." Of course, they were Hobbits, and I imagine that Hobbits do not take kindly to things or people trying to dominate them. Their inner strength is what kept Bilbo and Frodo from becoming slightly Gollum-ish, but Bilbo came dangerously close. I also think that in the case of Frodo (I will go along with the movie with the Eye-of-Sauron "I see you" thing), deep down inside he wanted to be a hero. After hearing all of Bilbo's tales, and meeting so many "great heroes" Frodo also wanted to be one. I know, it seems remarkably childish, but how many of you secretly want to do something so great that humanity will forever remember you? It is a normal thing to do. Perhaps subconsciously Frodo even wanted to confront Sauron himself, if needed. The Ring played on that, and called out to the Eye a "bit" more than it did with Bilbo. (Remember, just a theory!) The best example of the Ring's power is Boromir. His one weakness and his father's weakness was that he resented the return of the King to Gondor, because the rule of the Stewards would end. Denethor probably had told his son and heir all about Thorongil, and his suspicions concerning the latter. I imagine that Boromir put two and two together, and noticed that Aragorn was remarkably like Thorongil, and that was probably why he was always suspicious of him. Boromir also wanted to help his city in any way that he could. From childhood, he had seen grown men be unmanned or killed by the Minions of Mordor, and those visions stayed with him through adulthood. When Boromir came into contact with the One Ring, it immediately picked up on that resentment, desire, and fear. That is how it eventually drove Boromir mad. Galadriel could sense it because she could see much of others' minds. She saw that madness as it slowly took root in Boromir's mind. I also think that Aragorn saw it, because, being the Heir of Isildur and of Numenorean blood, he could also see into others' minds, although to a much lesser degree than Galadriel. Even in "Dark Lords" today, their strength always lies in ferreting out their opponents' weaknesses and playing them when necessary. Morgoth was especially gifted in this, and Sauron probably learned it from him. Of course, in the case of Maeglin, it probably wasn't too hard to get him to admit that he wanted to marry his cousin and take over his uncle's kingdom. That man really needed a psychiatrist! Talk about Freudian complexes! When Sauron forged the Ring, he put some of himself in there, so it is natural that the Ring would have the same strengths and weaknesses that its master had. Of course, Sauron did overlook the fact that the Ring could be destroyed. Perhaps he should have imitated his master, Morgoth, and forever tied himself to the land itself. As long as Arda survives, Morgoth will. To truly get rid of him forever, the Forces of Light would probably have to completely destroy Arda in the process. Perhaps Sauron never really learned.
__________________
But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|