WOuld you kill gollum - Page 2 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 01-12-2003, 01:48 PM

Ok, here's where I think we differ. For you, if someone is evil, he/she doesn't deserve life so you are justified if you kill it. Am I right? Well, for me, if someone is evil, then that person still has a right to live. I wouldn't kill gollum, and one huge reason is because he never did anything to me. And if you think he is evil now, I might even have to disagree on that. It wasn't like he really was evil, it was more wretched and loathesome. And the more I think about this quote, the less it makes sense

Quote:

'What a pity Bilbo did not stab the vile creature, when he had a chance!'
'Pity? It was pity that stayed his hand. Pity, and Mercy: not to strike without need.'
'I do not feel any pity for Gollum. He deserves death.'
'...Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice...'

That was the conversation between Frodo and Gandalf. Ok, first, why does Gollum deserve to die (why does Frodo think so, not yourself)? I don't think he did. Only for killing Deagol, but that does not really concern Frodo anyways. And if Bilbo did kill Gollum, how would that be justified. If you say because of Deagol, then I say nay. I think having the ring for as long as he did is enough punishment, and possibly even too much. Gollum became twisted and broken because of the ring. He was lonely, and carried far beyond his lifetime, weakened by it, and having his mind overrun by it. He was tortured by Sauron. He evn died wretched, so isn't that the final part of justice served to him? Anyways, he also helped out others. What about Frodo and Sam. Do you really think they would have gotten anywhere near that far if Gollum did not help them. Gollum tried to be good. He helped sam get the rabbits. So, I really don't think he deserved death.

[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

Tar-Palantir · 01-12-2003, 02:33 PM

Hey Grounds Keeper Willie, good for calling me out on my comment. Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for Gollum, for nobody deserves to become what the Ring molded him into. I was very sad when he died and up till then kept hoping for rehabilitation. But I don't feel like he was a nice hobbit kid, deserving some special forgiveness because he used to be good before all this, I suppose that is my only point. No, Gollum wasn't wholly evil, like you say. But I say he wasn't a good kid. And with the sole exception of his good deed with the eggs I can't find any other example of it. Hence my hastiness in proclaiming him "not a good samaritan in any sense of the word." Thank you for making me do more thinking/reading on it, my view has shifted 'slightly'. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] But you can't make me LOVE him, lol! You're all tricksy, the lot of you!

*Tar-Palintir runs screaming from the room before the Smeagol-lovers corrupt his proper sensibilities any further*

By the way "dollars to donuts" is a phrase that basically means I would bet my dollars (more valuable) against your donuts (less valuable), meaning that I feel pretty secure in the bet. Make sense?

[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

Tar-Palantir · 01-12-2003, 02:52 PM

Hehe, you posted while I was typing. To answer your question specifically re:Frodo, Frodo made those comments directly after Gandalf told him the entire story, so he knew all the details. But I think the trigger was when Gandalf mentioned that Gollum had given Sauron the name of 'Hobbits' and 'Shire' and 'Baggins'. Also Frodo says that he is afraid and frightened. That state of mind seems to always aid in the speaking of rash statements. And when Frodo does eventually see him, he takes pity just like Gandalf said he would. Good for Frodo.

01-12-2003, 02:55 PM

hmmmmmm.... well would i Kill Gullum?
no I like him to much to kill him I pitty him and he is the bom in the movie. Poor little Gullum.*sniff* :'( [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

LadyElbereth · 01-12-2003, 03:02 PM

I know that I would want to kill him, but I wouldn't unless he attacked or betrayed me.
I would definitly NOT feel comfortable if he hung around me and I had to put total trust in him.

Malamute · 01-12-2003, 05:41 PM

Alright,....

Gollum for 500 years spent his time killing "goblins" in the caves as they wandered off. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Thats alot more time than any of the hobbits,aragorn,borimir or most ever spent killing goblinseses.... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

Anyhow, its just another way to look at what gollum was doing all those years besides fighting and tormenting with the ring and the murder of deagol.

500 years of self imprisonment is quite the sentence for his crime. I see it as Smeagol finally being forgiven for his 'crimes' against humanity and being allowed to finally die and go where his tormented spirit deserves to reside. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Thats all.....

01-15-2003, 01:29 PM

i think giving Gollum\Smiegel a chance to redeem himself is wise of Frodo. everyone, no matter how bad their past should be given a second chance. w\o second chances mankind would destoy one another for even the smallest things. treat others as you'd want to be treated. would you want to be killed for going crazy, due to an evil cause, though you were trying to be good as well. i think Smiegel has good intentions but first he must defeat the evilness in him, which is Gollum.

01-12-2003, 02:33 PM	#42
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	Hey Grounds Keeper Willie, good for calling me out on my comment. Don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for Gollum, for nobody deserves to become what the Ring molded him into. I was very sad when he died and up till then kept hoping for rehabilitation. But I don't feel like he was a nice hobbit kid, deserving some special forgiveness because he used to be good before all this, I suppose that is my only point. No, Gollum wasn't wholly evil, like you say. But I say he wasn't a good kid. And with the sole exception of his good deed with the eggs I can't find any other example of it. Hence my hastiness in proclaiming him "not a good samaritan in any sense of the word." Thank you for making me do more thinking/reading on it, my view has shifted 'slightly'. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] But you can't make me LOVE him, lol! You're all tricksy, the lot of you! Tar-Palintir runs screaming from the room before the Smeagol-lovers corrupt his proper sensibilities any further By the way "dollars to donuts" is a phrase that basically means I would bet my dollars (more valuable) against your donuts (less valuable), meaning that I feel pretty secure in the bet. Make sense? [ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ] __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

01-12-2003, 02:52 PM	#43
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	Hehe, you posted while I was typing. To answer your question specifically re:Frodo, Frodo made those comments directly after Gandalf told him the entire story, so he knew all the details. But I think the trigger was when Gandalf mentioned that Gollum had given Sauron the name of 'Hobbits' and 'Shire' and 'Baggins'. Also Frodo says that he is afraid and frightened. That state of mind seems to always aid in the speaking of rash statements. And when Frodo does eventually see him, he takes pity just like Gandalf said he would. Good for Frodo. __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

01-12-2003, 03:02 PM	#45
LadyElbereth Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Taniquetil Posts: 183	I know that I would want to kill him, but I wouldn't unless he attacked or betrayed me. I would definitly NOT feel comfortable if he hung around me and I had to put total trust in him. __________________ If I could be anything, I'd be your tear, so I could be born in your eye, live down your cheek, and die on your lips.

01-12-2003, 05:41 PM	#46
Malamute Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Upper Peninsula Of Michigan Posts: 11	Alright,.... Gollum for 500 years spent his time killing "goblins" in the caves as they wandered off. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Thats alot more time than any of the hobbits,aragorn,borimir or most ever spent killing goblinseses.... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Anyhow, its just another way to look at what gollum was doing all those years besides fighting and tormenting with the ring and the murder of deagol. 500 years of self imprisonment is quite the sentence for his crime. I see it as Smeagol finally being forgiven for his 'crimes' against humanity and being allowed to finally die and go where his tormented spirit deserves to reside. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Thats all..... __________________ eglerio e galenas!

01-12-2003, 02:55 PM	#44
willowkeyjey Guest Posts: n/a	hmmmmmm.... well would i Kill Gullum? no I like him to much to kill him I pitty him and he is the bom in the movie. Poor little Gullum.sniff :'( [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]

01-15-2003, 01:29 PM	#47
Jian Guest Posts: n/a	i think giving Gollum\Smiegel a chance to redeem himself is wise of Frodo. everyone, no matter how bad their past should be given a second chance. w\o second chances mankind would destoy one another for even the smallest things. treat others as you'd want to be treated. would you want to be killed for going crazy, due to an evil cause, though you were trying to be good as well. i think Smiegel has good intentions but first he must defeat the evilness in him, which is Gollum.