Archery

[Baran]

I'm interested in traditional archery, but I'm at a loss when it comes to what bow to buy. The choice is beetwen a Longbow or a Recurve bow (which I'm not quite sure what is). Anyone here who can help?

This might not be about Tolkien directly, but it most certainly was his book who sparkled the interest (Legolas), and it is kind of related so I hope you tolerate it.

[Mithril]

I would recamend making your own instead of buying one. All yuo need is a book on how to make your own Bow, I would a native-american design, or a englidh longbow, but you have to be good to shoot one of these, I think a good one has a 75lb. draw weight.

[lore_master]

if you have never shot a bow before, i would recemend a longbow.
i would not recemend trying to build your own just yet.
it is good to try different types then choose what one you want. i would start out with a 30/35 lb draw weight. they sell bows on e-bay for very good prices.

as an expierenced archer i am telling you this from my own experience, please do not feel obligated to do what others tell you.

[the guy who be short]

hi, im not an experienced archer. but anyway, i also became interested in bows. so i made one out of rulers (four stuck together) sellotape and a cut elastic band.
try it. use pens as arrows. itll start u off

[Sapphire_Flame]

Personally, I'd go with a longbow, as that's what I've had most practice with. 30/35 lbs. draw weight sounds about right to start with, but it depends on the individual; I started with a 50 lb. bow myself.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

so i made one out of rulers

Talking about the bowmerang again? Ah, the old bowmerang, weapon of choice for the guy who be short. Why don't you tell them about more of it's features and functions. A very clever bow indeed...

As a rather frail hobbit lass [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I know there's no way I could handle a 50 lb draw weight, so if you're small or not too strong a 30 to 35 lb should work pretty good for you. It's too modern to feel authentically elvish, but I like shooting a compound bow (y'all please don't chase me out of town with your long bows!) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] Any good archery shop should be able to give you some help choosing a bow, even if you don't buy one there they can still help you find a good fit.

[mark12_30]

The best thing you can do, is find an archery club and join it. The second-best thing you can do is go to an archery store, hang out there, and gather information. The third best thing you can do is find a live human being in your area who shoots, and pick their brains. The fourth best thing you can do is go to various websites and get whatever clues they are offering...

And yes, I want to do Longbow at some point (there's a GORGEOUS mirkwood bow online that I've drooled over frequently) but, I'm starting with a compound bow to build up my strength and learn finesse. Once I master the compound, more specifically the back-tension release, I'll move on to the longbow.

Shooting pens...? Sounds plain dangerous to me. A proper archery range has guidelines for safety and sanity. At a bare minimum, you should be shooting into a bale of hay, against a hillside. If the arrow goes off into the blue, you can kill somebody.

Great book to get: "Idiot-Proof Archery" by Bernie Pellerite. The very best archery school out there, as far as I know, is also by the same guy and you can read about it on his site.

Get some training, be safe, do some research. We are talking about a lethal weapon here; do be careful. But it is a great sport, and Tolkien himself said that he always wanted to learn to shoot well.

Don't you love that scene in the book where Legolas shoots the airborne ringwraith's steed? In the dark? Yeow.

[Scott]

Good advice Mark,

I've been shooting whenever I've had the chance to since I was five and know that one can use all of the advice they can get.
Another thing to be aware of though is that you'll probably need a little more than a bow and some arrows if you're thinking about getting serious about shooting. A good leather forearm brace and some finger slips can save you from a lot of pain and welts.

[Amanaduial the archer]

Longbows are nicer to shoot with, and you dont have to have all the bother with the sight. The longbows are the ones which were used in LotR, as they are traditional. Recurve are easier to shoot with, but more tiring. Theyre good for starting with though, and arent too heavy. Longbow arrows can really hurt your hands when they rub along if you arent wearing thick enough gloves too.

[mark12_30]

Scott, True; I like those leather forearm Bracers that Legolas wore; I hate getting whacked... Have you read the article on Legolas's shooting skills? Pretty nifty article. Lemme see if I can find the link...

"The Boy With The Bow"

[Pukel-Man]

Depending on how big you are Baran, a longbow may be too large for you to start with. A traditional English longbow was between 67 and 78 inches in length and had a draw weight between 80 and 120 pounds. When I was younger and my shoulder joints were in working order I had a traditional longbow my uncle had made out of ash. The draw weight was 110 pounds! I'm a pretty large guy but that was a real workout! The draw length is also pretty long because the traditional longbow is drawn back to ear and released. Most archers today release from the corner of the mouth. It's pretty impressive to note that the typical English archer was capable of hitting a man-sized target 200 yards away between 10-15 times a minute. The effective range of the longbow was up to 400 yards with lightweight flight arrows usually made of willow. Back to the choice of bow for you to start with, I'd probably pick a recurve because they are cheaper and easier to find and as the Archer stated above they much easier on the hand as they have a rest for the arrow built in ( the longbow arrow usually rests on the index finger). Have fun, you might want to see if there are any archery clubs in your area that can give you some ideas and a place to practice.

[the guy who be short]

yes, i speak of the bowmerang. (actually ive named it durin) you might want to ignore this as you seem aas if you want to buy an actual bow rather than an 11 inch contraption that only fires 20 feet.

anyway, if anybody else isnt allowed or cant get a proper bow, heres what i done: stick 4 rulers together in the correct frame shape. (one on top of the other, and then again lower down) the put an elastic band through the top and bottom, through the middle of the two rulers. sellotape it. then stcik a few pens together, and you know those metal nib covering things you get on the end of some pens? stick one of them on the end of each arrow. voila, your done. you now have a portable bowmerang, which shoud fit in your pocket, plus arrows that can fire 20 feet. and if you run out of arrows, throw your bomerang shaped bow at the opposition [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Elrowen Greenleaf]

I would recommend an english longbow. I must admit that I'm partial to them, but once you get the hang of it... it's really not that hard. Just make sure that you either have a finger tab or a leather glove (unless you want your fingers to hurt REALLY bad), also a wrist/arm guard isn't a bad idea if you will be wearing a short sleeved shirt.

Enjoy your archery!

-Elrowen

[ March 23, 2003: Message edited by: Elrowen Greenleaf ]

[Baran]

Thank you all for your replies, some who were very helpfull. The site about Legolas was great!

My problem is that I'm living in the far north of Norway, the nature is stunnning, but there are not many (none) archery-clubs or bow-shops around. So I have to rely on the information I find on the web.

My biggest question is what kind of bow I'm going to buy. The most likely is a longbow or a recurve. What are the pros and cons? Which draw weight should I choose? Any other useful information I should take into consideration before buying a bow?
I am a tall guy at 187cm (6"2) and in good shape so I guess most bows fit.

Remember I'm a beginner who never have had a shot with a real bow.

[Baran]

I am probably going to buy a recurve bow with around 60 lb draw weight, what else do I need to buy? And how should I practice?

[mark12_30]

Ready for the elvish archer plunge, eh? Too bad we can't ship you off to Mirkwood, and get them to set you up just like Legolas. But that kind of expert measurement and advice is exactly what you need.

Baran, go to a store where they will analyze your technique and your body, let you try the bows, ***and shoot them***, so that you get a feeling for the size and draw weight that is best for you. A good store (a good salesman) will measure your draw length VERY carefully (this has a HUGE effect on your release and therefore your accuracy.) A bad draw length will have you releasing to the left an annoying amount of the time.

There's a common tendency to overestimate draw length, but underestimating it would be just as bad-- so have an expert set you up. It will make a huge difference. In fact, rather than buying a good expensive bow with nobody to help you, I'd spend part of the money on travel. I'd go on a quest to find an Archery Master who can tell me exactly what size and draw I need, and get a less expensive bow. Having the bow correctly "tailored" to your body is extremely important-- especially with a traditional bow that can't exactly be adjusted with the turn of a wrench!

But, okay, other stuff I think you'll want:

You'll need arrows (OF THE CORRECT LENGTH--- get an expert to find that length for you. If you're shooting traditional, consider "real" feather fletching instead of plastic fletching; expensive, but often better for traditional bows. Arrows will run you anywhere from $80 to $180 or $200 a dozen, wild guess. Get practice points, not broadheads. Don't get broadheads until you can shoot reliably and are otherwise ready to go hunting.)

Remember Legolas's leather forearm bracers? You'll probably want a forearm guard for your bow arm, for maybe ten or twenty bucks.

Although Legolas shoots barefingered, I don't recommend it. Nerve damage is NASTY. So for your drawing hand either a tab or a glove. (I have a leather "glove" that sheathes my index, middle and ring finger, and I love it. About twenty bucks.)

Legolas's quiver is on his back-- nowadays they clip onto your belt rather nicely. I forget how much they cost.)

Unlike Legolas who simply carries his cherished bow everywhere he goes and never bumps or nicks or bangs it, you'll eventually want a case or cover to protect your beautiful new bow and all your accesories. Those vary in cost too.

Legolas has orcs to shoot; you don't. So you'll need a target. Foam targets are good; "eternity" targets are excellent (you can put them in your basement!) Get something that will really stop an arrow.

And then you need a hill or berm to shoot against, or a good sturdy wall that you don't mind putting holes into when you miss.

But most of all-- get that expert advice before you buy. Baran, if you get a bow that's really right for you, all this will be much more enjoyable. Make sure you're getting a bow that fits your body and your endurance.

[ April 01, 2003: Message edited by: mark12_30 ]

[Rumil]

Calling all expert archers...

Tolkien states that the Numenoreans at the height of their power (ie Second Age) used steel bows. I can't think of any historical parallels for this, but have seen modern competition bows made from some sort of metal (aluminium?).

Would anyone care to speculate on the advantages and disadvantages of a metal bow?

[Aerandir Carnesir]

I'm an intermediate archer(got good by shooting fish out of the lake behind/near my house,[If you wanna know how to, PM me [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]]) I would reccomend if you are a real beginner, save up $40 and go to any Gart Sports, Galyans, etc.(Pretty much any store with a large/moderate hunting section) and buy a Lil Souix bow.(I know the name is gay as Libarachi, but it's a nice, cheap bow) It'll come with 2 arrows, a finger gaurd, the bow, and I think a small quiver. It's an excellent beginner bow and the draw weight is only about 10-25 or so lbs. It's the one I started out with, and it's also the one I'm using right now until I save up enough money to get the Elvish bow off of Ebay. Anywho, I'm wanting to get that bow of ebay(it's the elvish bow by bitter root bow co.) But I just have a few questions: Has anybody else bought that bow? It looks nice from the pictures. Does anybody know the draw weight of it? Or any other 72" longbow on that matter? Would it be worth my money? Anyway, look into that cheap bow. I've had it for like, 5 years, and it's only a little warped, but still shoots well. It's better to get that and see if you like it than spend 100+ dollars on a bow that'll end up unused in your closet. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] PM me if you want to know how to shoot fish with a bow or spear em, it doesn't really matter. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Ranger of the Dúnedain,

Aerandir Carnesir [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[mark12_30]

So, Baran of Mirkwood, how are you arming yourself these days? What's progress?

Steel bows: Don't know. The only metal bows I've seen are compound bows which I doubt Tolkien was thinking of.

Biblically, there's that line, "He makes my arms strong so that i can bend a bow of bronze." I've always wondered about that line.

A forty dollar archery set? Sounds great for somebody with a small frame, but for a 6'2" man, it could get frustrating, and I suspect that the draw length would be far too short. Anybody know? Do these sets come in varying sizes?

If you really could get a cheap fiberglass bow that was your size and a beginning draw weight, it's not a bad idea, not at all. But if it's not your correct draw length it'll probably turn you off or frustrate you.

At archery clubs (there she goes again!) they often have cheap fiberglass bows that you can borrow and shoot with. Ours does. Even so, the draw weights are a bit much for me on most of them, and the draw length isn't right either (too short.) So I haven't used them much.

[lore_master]

i believe when Tolkien was writing about steel bows he ment steel wood, not metal. being a very expeireenced archer myself i have never seen a bow made out of metal before. but mnaybe thats just me.

baran, the most important part of archery is to have fun while you are shooting, glad to see another perso interested in archery.

[Rumil]

Steel bows, well seems I was wrong in two different directions! Maybe the modern bows I've seen were made of composite materials or something, they didn't look like wood to the untrained observer.

Anyway, I did some digging online and came up with references to steel bows in Medieval and later India. It seems as if these were made because steel was the new high tech high status material and weren't as effective as the traditional composite bow.

Anyway, I quote....

Sadly though, by middle of this century times had changed and today this custom of archery has virtually died. There are, however, some individuals still alive who received the traditional and highly ritualistic training in archery. In January 1995 I had an opportunity to speak with one such person, His Highness Thulajendra Raja P. Bhonsle Chatrapathy, the senior member of the royal line of Maratha kings who once ruled in Tanjavur, in Tamilnadu, India.

With the help of Professor R. Vivekanandagopal, a scholar attached to the Tamil University of Tanjavur, I spoke with the raja for several hours in his palace. Even at 78 he was quite a lively figure who attributed his robust health to his earlier martial discipline. Our discussion had a certain poignancy about the skill he acquired in archery some sixty years earlier, for he was the last of his line to have received traditional training. By the time he was fifteen or so a fascination with European customs helped foster an indifference to traditional Indian sports. As the raja put it, they cast their bows aside for tennis rackets.

Tanjavur Bows

The raja described the bows he trained with as shorter recurved bows, made out of metal. He recalled a tradition that the bow should be as tall as the individual, but he remembered his bows as shorter, maybe 36" when braced. A couple of examples of these short metal recurve bows are on display in the Government Museum of Madras. Both steel and brass bows were used by members of royal families in competition during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries.

Steel bows have a long history in India, as very early texts make mention of steel bows. By the time of the Mughal period (beginning mid-1500s), steel bows that were highly decorated, sometimes with gold and silver inlay, were fixtures in royal households. Though there is evidence that steel bows were earlier used in warfare, by the end of the seventeenth century of so, they may have become weapons for royal display. Several sources maintain that the range of a steel bow was limited in comparison with the composite bows of India. However, Robert P. Elmer, in his classic work, Target Archery, notes an advantage of a steel bow. Being of metal, it "never needed to be unstrung and so it could be kept at hand in the house as a weapon for instant defense."

The Tanjavur raja stated he trained with a bow made out of brass, a metal that many archery aficionados whom I have since spoken with have questioned. But the king was emphatic: his bow was brass. He may have meant bronze, as in India, the two terms are used inter-changeably.

The king described his bow as short, rounded, both in the grip and along its body, and decorated with a floral motif etched in the back. The ears of the bow were highly articulated, curling towards the back of the bow. He also drew a picture of what he called the kalasam (see figure 1), a tear-drop shaped plate projecting out from the back of the bow above the grip that served to fix the aiming point when shooting. He recalled the strength drawing the bow required of him, noting that the extent to which a bow was drawn depended upon an individual's ability. He remembered the bow string being made out of animal--perhaps cow--gut

[Baran]

I haven't bought any bows by now, but I've found an archery club in a town nearby... Well, three hours by car, but that's nearby where I'm from. So I'm going to go there to have them help me find my personal draw weight/lenght and ask them for advices. Then I'm going to by a bow on the internet(as soon as I get some cash that is). Still not sure if it's going to be a recurve or a longbow though.
You've all been most helpful, especialy Mark1230, thank you very much. Have you been doing archery for a long time?

[Beren87]

or a englidh longbow, but you have to be good to shoot one of these, I think a good one has a 75lb. draw weight.

Heh, actually, the English Longbowman generally carried a bow with a draw-weight of double that. I have trouble pulling back a 60lb. bow, just think of what 150lbs. would be! However, the Longbowman was trained from the time he could stand to be the best archers on the planet.

[hobbit punk]

Does anybody here shoot arrows while on horseback? I think that archery in itself is amazing but to do it accurately while riding a horse is just incredible. I saw somebody do it on tv during a documentary on the vikings, he was a historian or something...anyway, if anybody does that it would be interesting to know. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[alquadae]

I understand the best bows are made from dragon-horn!

[Helkahothion]

I think that the most traditiononl shooting is done with a bearbow. That is without all the plastic and the easing. You will have to do everything by yourself.
________
HERBAL VAPORIZERS

[nevlhachien]

in my pe class we were doing archery. we used like plasticy recurved bows. they were cheap and all the guys in my class kept breaking them. but i got pretty good. we would shoot at target from about 8 feet away and i did pretty good when my friend wasnt making me laugh. everyone in my class was jealous of me cuz i shot as graceful and accurate as an elf. no, not really but i had to make myself sound good! just thought i'd mention that......

[The Flame Of Anor]

I am a fairly expert archer. Buy an expencive wooden recurve bow, you can't go wrong. It's powerful, easy to sight in, and you will never have to buy another for a long time.

[The Flame Of Anor]

And longbows are next to impossible to find, you can't really mean a long bow. They are extremely long, unwieldy, and incredibly costly in this day and age.