A bit of confusion - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

The Evenstar · 04-01-2003, 12:38 AM

Tolkien says Elves can die in battle or of a broken heart, but are also immortal. How can this be, then? It’s a little confusing.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 04-01-2003, 01:37 AM

They are immortal in a sense that they will not die of old age. In other words, their bodies don't really age. They just keep on living, but that does not mean that they can't die. If an elf just stayed at home in Rivendell and never went to war and was completely safe from any sort of danger, then that elf would live forever. They are not completely immortal, just immortal of age.

Phrim · 04-01-2003, 08:54 AM

In addition, immortal folk are not prone to disease, or other maladies of the body. They were still subject to being slain and afflictions of the spirit.

The Evenstar · 04-01-2003, 11:19 AM

Hey friends!

Thanks for the info, Greatly appreciated.

Selmo · 04-02-2003, 04:06 AM

In Tolkien's universe, it's not Elves, but Men (including Hobbits) who are truly immortal.

Elves will exist only as long as the world exists. The spirits of Elves who are killed go to the Halls of Mandos in Amman which, although separated from Middle Earth, is still part of the physical world. When the physical world comes to an end, so do the Elves.

Men, on the other hand, are physically mortal but spiritually immortal. After death their spirits can leave the circles of the world and will continue to exist after the end of the world.

lathspell · 04-02-2003, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Men, on the other hand, are physically mortal but spiritually immortal. After death their spirits can leave the circles of the world and will continue to exist after the end of the world.

How do you know that? It is indeed said that the spirits of Men leave Arda, but it not stated where they are truly going and I never saw a statement that they went on living.

Mornie Alantie · 04-02-2003, 10:57 AM

I do not agree with you that Elves will just end. Just because it is known they go to the halls doesn't mean that they will become nonexistent at the end of the world.

Niluial · 04-02-2003, 12:20 PM

In away I agree with Mornie Alantie. They cant just be nonexistent! Their spirits must go on!

04-01-2003, 12:38 AM	#1
The Evenstar Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rivendell Posts: 103	A bit of confusion Tolkien says Elves can die in battle or of a broken heart, but are also immortal. How can this be, then? It’s a little confusing. __________________ "The love of the Elves for their land and their works is deeper than the deeps of the sea." - Galadriel

04-01-2003, 01:37 AM	#2
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	They are immortal in a sense that they will not die of old age. In other words, their bodies don't really age. They just keep on living, but that does not mean that they can't die. If an elf just stayed at home in Rivendell and never went to war and was completely safe from any sort of danger, then that elf would live forever. They are not completely immortal, just immortal of age. __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

04-01-2003, 11:19 AM	#4
The Evenstar Wight Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Rivendell Posts: 103	Hey friends! Thanks for the info, Greatly appreciated. __________________ "The love of the Elves for their land and their works is deeper than the deeps of the sea." - Galadriel

04-02-2003, 10:57 AM	#7
Mornie Alantie Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere above earth cause people say i should come down to it Posts: 226	I do not agree with you that Elves will just end. Just because it is known they go to the halls doesn't mean that they will become nonexistent at the end of the world. __________________ Instead of pepper spray, you pack a glass bottle and scream "Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima!!!" at muggers.

04-02-2003, 12:20 PM	#8
Niluial Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: In the darkness of white Posts: 601	In away I agree with Mornie Alantie. They cant just be nonexistent! Their spirits must go on! __________________ Life is not about how many breaths you take but about how many times it leaves you breathless. My rants, moans and groans in other words my Blog My Magical Site

04-01-2003, 08:54 AM	#3
Phrim Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: New Jersey, USA Posts: 72	In addition, immortal folk are not prone to disease, or other maladies of the body. They were still subject to being slain and afflictions of the spirit.

04-02-2003, 04:06 AM	#5
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	In Tolkien's universe, it's not Elves, but Men (including Hobbits) who are truly immortal. Elves will exist only as long as the world exists. The spirits of Elves who are killed go to the Halls of Mandos in Amman which, although separated from Middle Earth, is still part of the physical world. When the physical world comes to an end, so do the Elves. Men, on the other hand, are physically mortal but spiritually immortal. After death their spirits can leave the circles of the world and will continue to exist after the end of the world.