The Hobbit - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

balrogman · 02-03-2003, 08:16 PM

How come nobody talks about the animated hobbit? i think its a rad movie!! also do you think that PJ will make a real version of the hobbit? i think it would be cool!!

Elladan Peredhil · 02-04-2003, 07:56 AM

I'm by no means an expert here (having only just joined myself) but my guess would be that the reason we don't talk much about The Hobbit here is because of PJ having made LotR so recently -- with so many people having watched the movies, it's drawing a new following to Tolkien's works. Unfortunately (IMHO anyway) some of the people on here seem to be more interested in the recent movies than in the original works themselves.With regard to the animated version of the Hobbit, I can't claim to have watched it, although I probably will now if someone highly recommends it. I did watch the animated version of LotR and was sorely disappointed -- they seemed to cut out so much of the text -- but perhaps this is not a problem in The Hobbit..I'm not sure if PJ will be making The Hobbit or not -- I have heard people saying that they wish he would, but I've seen interviews in which he claims to want a break from the fantastical world of Middle Earth once he's finished refilming parts of RotK later this year. I fear only time will tell if such a movie is made by PJ.

mollecon · 02-04-2003, 08:34 AM

Yeah - but New Line Cinema have the rights to "The Hobbit" now, so maybe... Perhaps with another director.

Sapphire_Flame · 02-04-2003, 10:19 AM

Heehee, I like the animated Hobbit, it's a fun movie! I like Smaug the best . But, yes, I've wondered why nobody has mentioned that movie, it's very cute. I thought it was done pretty well, though I seriously couldn't picture orcs/goblins singing that song. Oh well, it's still good!!~*~Sapphire~*~

HCIsland · 02-04-2003, 10:26 AM

I've never seen the animated Hobbit or RoTK, but the <A HREF="http://www.patriotresource.com/lotr/animated/page1.html" TARGET=_blank>cover art</A> scares the hell out of me. I should try and find it because my kids may enjoy it. Adapting the story of The Hobbit would be far easier then LoTR as the story is far more linear with a clearly defined central character in Bilbo. I think the main problem would be what feel you would want the movie to have. Do you make it whimsical and light, which is more in the flavour of the book, or do you make it grittier and real like the Jackson films? Neither is entirely satisfactory.H.C.

Tar-Palantir · 02-04-2003, 10:49 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Yeah - but New Line Cinema have the rights to "The Hobbit" now, so maybe... Perhaps with another director <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>They have the production rights, but not the distribution rights. A sticky point.The Hobbit cartoon was ok when I was a kid 20 years ago. But I watched it again last year and could not get half-way through it. It's pretty BAD, though occasional songs, individual scenes, and some still shots are neat. Don't buy it - RENT it!

Grimbold · 02-04-2003, 02:21 PM

To capture the book, as PJ has tried to do with the movies of LOTR, I would go for the whimsical and light approach as the book of The Hobbit did. LOTR is gritty and darker than The Hobbit, so the movies were made that way. I think a film adaptation of The Hobbit should follow suit.

drigel · 02-04-2003, 04:26 PM

The animated hobbit.. sigh Huston as Gandalf was a cool choice but - the thing wasnt that good back in the seventies - whew - way too cutsie cutsie

maikafanawen · 02-04-2003, 04:41 PM

As a matter of fact, I just watched the cartoon The Hobbit Sunday night. It was cute. I watched it twice actually. It was a little drab. I don't know how to explain it. I don't really like how they did the forest elves. They didn't look very elegant, how I picture my elves. But all the songs were cute. I liked them. And Elrond was cool.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 02-04-2003, 06:26 PM

Finally some talk about the animated movies! The animated RotK and Hobbit are really meant for kids to watch. I like the animated LotR by Ralph Bakshi. I have LotR and the Hobbit on VHS, but they're old. HC, I reccomend that you have your kids watch them, and whay you can do is buy the 3 pack DVD set. I think they sell them at Best Buy. If they're like 6 or 7 or younger they'll probably enjoy it, if they're older, they might not enjoy them that much, exceppt for teh LotR, that's not really intended for kids like the other ones are. I still watch LotR to this day, I love it that much. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I like Smaug the best <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Hehe, he's funny. He looks like a cat (his face). Where there's a whip, there's a way? Is that the song? It's pretty funny. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I don't really like how they did the forest elves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Me either. The king looks like he's a whimp because he's so bony.

Hirilaelin · 02-04-2003, 06:34 PM

I begged my Dad for the animated Hobbit when I saw it. I was about seven I think. I had already herd the book from my Mom, and I thought the movie was the neatest thing ever. (Still do!) However, it does have some major flaws in my eyes.One: The elves. Too skinny, and they were blue!Nothing else though... And Smaug was awesome! (So were the dwarves.) And Beorn! As I said, I stil love it a lot. I am really hoping P.J. do a live action though. Cross your fingers! Suilad,~Eruanne

Lily Bracegirdle · 02-04-2003, 06:40 PM

I saw the animated Hobbit on TV when I was a kid and I found the hobbits so repugnant that I was unable to read the book for the next five years or so. The movie ruined it for me. Luckily, I read LotR before seeing the animated movies, so my perceptions weren't colored by someone else's vision. I seem to recall the orcs in FotR looked something like green versions of the sand people from Star Wars. Am I remembering correctly? o_O;;-Lily

balrogman · 02-04-2003, 11:19 PM

I knew I wasnt the only one who liked the animated movies! I havent seen RotK but ive seen parts of FotR and seen all of The Hobbit about 20 times though it has been a while... is it just me, or was Beorn not in the movie? He was my fave character cause he was a bear!!! I also liked the songs especially the dwarf one at the start *Break the dishes, Crack the plates, Thats what Bilbo Baggins hates....* But Thorin almost seems too mean to Bilbo, and the wood-elves look nothing like Legolas in LotR(he is the elf-king's son!)Later Bally

HCIsland · 02-05-2003, 12:35 PM

I'm glad to hear others say they like the Bakshi film. It was very ambitious and certainly fell short of the mark, but considering the contraints he was put under, I enjoyed it.My kids are 6 and 10 and working through the Hobbit now, so I won't show it to them until they finish the book (don't want to spoil anything). They are both addicted to Jackson's films (especially the ten year old) and I think they'll be disappointed with either animated film of LoTR. Besides, I don't want to spoil them for Jackson's Return of the King next year.Thanks for the words on The Hobbit though. I'll definately look for it.H.C.

Aragorn_the_Ranger · 02-08-2003, 04:39 AM

Check out 'My "The Hobbit" Script' in the downs for a fellow Barrow Downer's view of the movie

Calliope and Linus S. Underhill. · 02-10-2003, 12:21 PM

I have never seen the animated Hobbit, but I did watch the overly-done version of Return of the King. Well, the first half-hour of it. Wooooooah. I think I was cast into another dimension with that thing. lol. I still get that "Frodo that 9-fingered" song stuck in my head occasionaly.The animated version of the LORD-TTT was closer to the book, but it was very boring, and no Tom Bombadil. Oh well. I'm going to buy all of the animated versions some time.However, I did get the term "festering malevolence" from ROTK. Hee hee. It took me a while to figure out what it meant though.[ February 10, 2003: Message edited by: Calliope and Linus S. Underhill. ]

Bill Ferny · 02-10-2003, 12:56 PM

I vaguely remember watching the Hobbit when I was kid, so last year I rented the movie. It’s a great movie, in my opinion, and it seemed to follow the book more than any other Tolkien related film I seen to date. True it was obviously aimed at children, but then again, so was the book. On the down side, the wood elves were a bit too ugly for me, and the goblins weren’t ugly enough, and the 70ish music was horrid. In a lot of ways, it reminded me of the Last Unicorn, and it is obvious that the two films come from the same tradition.I disagree about the hobbits, though. I thought the animators did a good job portraying hobbits, and for that matter, dwarves.The Bakshi film… I wish he had never gotten a hold of the rights. Like all his films, that one was simply way too surreal, kind of like an acid trip in Middle-Earth.

Naldoriathil · 02-10-2003, 01:00 PM

If you go on <A HREF="http://www.tbhl.com" TARGET=_blank>www.tbhl.com</A> (PJ's official website) then there are links saying that after he's done what he wants to do next, an arty film I believe, he will consider doing The Hobbit. I will look forward to it!. Wonder how he would do Beorn though?

Vorrothiel · 02-10-2003, 01:52 PM

I think it would have been fun if they made a film out of the Hobbit. But I think I've heard that PJ just don't want to make more Tolkien. This was the first and last time making LOTR. Maybe that's for the better??? I think so... (eventhough it would have been fun) [ February 10, 2003: Message edited by: Vorrothiel ]

Vorrothiel · 02-10-2003, 01:56 PM

Sorry, Naldoriathil. :-) I didn't read your post before I posted mine... Sounds interesting!!!

Peri · 02-10-2003, 02:40 PM

The Hobbit cartoon was a great movie. I love the way they portrayed Gollum in it. That was the perfect Gollum voice. Haven't heard anything about PJ maybe making The Hobbit into a movie, but if he did, I'd love to see it!

***Gilthalion*** · 02-13-2003, 06:57 PM

I still can't read Gandalf (or any other wizardly old man or prophet) without lapsing into a John Huston impersonation. (See my signature for a link to several RealAudio clips where I read from Tolkien's works.)Beorn was NOT in the animated version, but I think they did draw him in their planning. He must have been dropped, for there is a Beorn drawing in the Rankin-Bass illustrated book.I did NOT like RotF by Rankin-Bass. I did like the Bakshi animation of LOTR, but it had many flaws, especially being unfinished.

Cibbwin · 02-13-2003, 07:32 PM

I haven't seen the animated movie, but I do think there should be a PJ version.

balrogman · 02-13-2003, 08:05 PM

Ive heard from a couple places that New Line has the rights to The Hobbit, but they say that if PJ doesnt want to make it, they will probably find another director. Im hopin they do a Silmarillion vid too but they would most likely have to split it up into many movies, it being such a long book.Bally [ February 13, 2003: Message edited by: balrogman ]

HCIsland · 02-14-2003, 10:02 AM

According to what I'm now reading, PJ's original intent was to do The Hobbit and it was Richard Taylor that convinced him to shoot for Lord of the Rings.H.C.

02-03-2003, 08:16 PM	#1
balrogman Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: that place with the stuff Posts: 102	The Hobbit How come nobody talks about the animated hobbit? i think its a rad movie!! also do you think that PJ will make a real version of the hobbit? i think it would be cool!! __________________ should i stay or should i go?

02-04-2003, 07:56 AM	#2
Elladan Peredhil Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Middle Earth Posts: 38	I'm by no means an expert here (having only just joined myself) but my guess would be that the reason we don't talk much about The Hobbit here is because of PJ having made LotR so recently -- with so many people having watched the movies, it's drawing a new following to Tolkien's works. Unfortunately (IMHO anyway) some of the people on here seem to be more interested in the recent movies than in the original works themselves.<P>With regard to the animated version of the Hobbit, I can't claim to have watched it, although I probably will now if someone highly recommends it. I did watch the animated version of LotR and was sorely disappointed -- they seemed to cut out so much of the text -- but perhaps this is not a problem in The Hobbit..<P>I'm not sure if PJ will be making The Hobbit or not -- I have heard people saying that they wish he would, but I've seen interviews in which he claims to want a break from the fantastical world of Middle Earth once he's finished refilming parts of RotK later this year. I fear only time will tell if such a movie is made by PJ.

02-04-2003, 10:19 AM	#4
Sapphire_Flame Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The World That Never Was Posts: 1,232	Heehee, I like the animated Hobbit, it's a fun movie! I like Smaug the best . But, yes, I've wondered why nobody has mentioned that movie, it's very cute. I thought it was done pretty well, though I seriously couldn't picture orcs/goblins singing that song. Oh well, it's still good!!<P>~~Sapphire~~ __________________ The Hitchhiking Ghost

02-04-2003, 10:26 AM	#5
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I've never seen the animated Hobbit or RoTK, but the <A HREF="http://www.patriotresource.com/lotr/animated/page1.html" TARGET=_blank>cover art</A> scares the hell out of me. <P>I should try and find it because my kids may enjoy it. Adapting the story of The Hobbit would be far easier then LoTR as the story is far more linear with a clearly defined central character in Bilbo. I think the main problem would be what feel you would want the movie to have. Do you make it whimsical and light, which is more in the flavour of the book, or do you make it grittier and real like the Jackson films? Neither is entirely satisfactory.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

02-04-2003, 10:49 AM	#6
Tar-Palantir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: napa valley, ca Posts: 496	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Yeah - but New Line Cinema have the rights to "The Hobbit" now, so maybe... Perhaps with another director <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>They have the production rights, but not the distribution rights. A sticky point.<P>The Hobbit cartoon was ok when I was a kid 20 years ago. But I watched it again last year and could not get half-way through it. It's pretty BAD, though occasional songs, individual scenes, and some still shots are neat. Don't buy it - RENT it! __________________ History shows again and again How nature points up the folly of men Go, go, Godzilla!

02-04-2003, 08:34 AM	#3
mollecon Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 188	Yeah - but New Line Cinema have the rights to "The Hobbit" now, so maybe... Perhaps with another director.

02-04-2003, 02:21 PM	#7
Grimbold Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Númenor Posts: 88	To capture the book, as PJ has tried to do with the movies of LOTR, I would go for the whimsical and light approach as the book of The Hobbit did. LOTR is gritty and darker than The Hobbit, so the movies were made that way. I think a film adaptation of The Hobbit should follow suit. __________________ Where is the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? They have passed like rain on the mountains. Like wind in the meadow. The days have gone down in the west. Behind the hills, into shadow. How did it come to this?

02-04-2003, 04:26 PM	#8
drigel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: commonplace city Posts: 518	The animated hobbit.. sigh<BR>Huston as Gandalf was a cool choice but - <BR>the thing wasnt that good back in the seventies - whew - way too cutsie cutsie

02-04-2003, 04:41 PM	#9
maikafanawen Tears of Simbelmynë Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Beast's Castle Posts: 705	As a matter of fact, I just watched the cartoon The Hobbit Sunday night. It was cute. I watched it twice actually. It was a little drab. I don't know how to explain it. I don't really like how they did the forest elves. They didn't look very elegant, how I picture my elves. But all the songs were cute. I liked them. And Elrond was cool. __________________ "They call this war a cloud over the land. But they made the weather and then they stand in the rain and say, 'Sht, it's raining!'" -- Ruby, Cold Mountain*

02-04-2003, 06:26 PM	#10
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	Finally some talk about the animated movies! The animated RotK and Hobbit are really meant for kids to watch. I like the animated LotR by Ralph Bakshi. I have LotR and the Hobbit on VHS, but they're old. HC, I reccomend that you have your kids watch them, and whay you can do is buy the 3 pack DVD set. I think they sell them at Best Buy. If they're like 6 or 7 or younger they'll probably enjoy it, if they're older, they might not enjoy them that much, exceppt for teh LotR, that's not really intended for kids like the other ones are. I still watch LotR to this day, I love it that much.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I like Smaug the best <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hehe, he's funny. He looks like a cat (his face). Where there's a whip, there's a way? Is that the song? It's pretty funny.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> I don't really like how they did the forest elves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Me either. The king looks like he's a whimp because he's so bony. __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

02-04-2003, 06:34 PM	#11
Hirilaelin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Immersed in a Good Book Posts: 367	I begged my Dad for the animated Hobbit when I saw it. I was about seven I think. I had already herd the book from my Mom, and I thought the movie was the neatest thing ever. (Still do!) However, it does have some major flaws in my eyes.<P>One: The elves. Too skinny, and they were <B>blue</B>!<P>Nothing else though... And Smaug was <B>awesome</B>! (So were the dwarves.) And Beorn! As I said, I stil love it a lot. I am really hoping P.J. do a live action though. Cross your fingers! <P>Suilad,<P>~Eruanne __________________ ...so I fired two warning shots. Into his head. - Chicago Let Helky stay! Bree\|Imladris\|guess you'll never know...

02-04-2003, 06:40 PM	#12
Lily Bracegirdle Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Bree Posts: 210	I saw the animated Hobbit on TV when I was a kid and I found the hobbits so repugnant that I was unable to read the book for the next five years or so. The movie ruined it for me. Luckily, I read LotR before seeing the animated movies, so my perceptions weren't colored by someone else's vision. I seem to recall the orcs in FotR looked something like green versions of the sand people from Star Wars. Am I remembering correctly? o_O;;<P>-Lily __________________ "But nay: the praise of the praiseworthy is above all rewards." - Faramir

02-04-2003, 11:19 PM	#13
balrogman Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: that place with the stuff Posts: 102	I knew I wasnt the only one who liked the animated movies! I havent seen RotK but ive seen parts of FotR and seen all of The Hobbit about 20 times though it has been a while... is it just me, or was Beorn not in the movie? He was my fave character cause he was a bear!!! I also liked the songs especially the dwarf one at the start <BR><I>Break the dishes, Crack the plates, Thats what Bilbo Baggins hates....</I><BR>But Thorin almost seems too mean to Bilbo, and the wood-elves look nothing like Legolas in LotR(he is the elf-king's son!)<P>Later<BR>Bally __________________ should i stay or should i go?

02-05-2003, 12:35 PM	#14
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	I'm glad to hear others say they like the Bakshi film. It was very ambitious and certainly fell short of the mark, but considering the contraints he was put under, I enjoyed it.<P>My kids are 6 and 10 and working through the Hobbit now, so I won't show it to them until they finish the book (don't want to spoil anything). They are both addicted to Jackson's films (especially the ten year old) and I think they'll be disappointed with either animated film of LoTR. Besides, I don't want to spoil them for Jackson's Return of the King next year.<P>Thanks for the words on The Hobbit though. I'll definately look for it.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor

02-08-2003, 04:39 AM	#15
Aragorn_the_Ranger Haunting Spirit Join Date: May 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 70	Check out 'My "The Hobbit" Script' in the downs for a fellow Barrow Downer's view of the movie

02-10-2003, 12:21 PM	#16
Calliope and Linus S. Underhill. Pile O'Bones Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: The Computer Posts: 17	I have never seen the animated Hobbit, but I did watch the overly-done version of Return of the King. Well, the first half-hour of it. Wooooooah. I think I was cast into another dimension with that thing. lol. I still get that "Frodo that 9-fingered" song stuck in my head occasionaly.<P>The animated version of the LORD-TTT was closer to the book, but it was very boring, and no Tom Bombadil. Oh well. I'm going to buy all of the animated versions some time.<P>However, I did get the term "festering malevolence" from ROTK. Hee hee. It took me a while to figure out what it meant though.<p>[ February 10, 2003: Message edited by: Calliope and Linus S. Underhill. ] __________________ What an abominable notion! ~Frodo

02-10-2003, 12:56 PM	#17
Bill Ferny Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bree Posts: 390	I vaguely remember watching the Hobbit when I was kid, so last year I rented the movie. It’s a great movie, in my opinion, and it seemed to follow the book more than any other Tolkien related film I seen to date. True it was obviously aimed at children, but then again, so was the book. On the down side, the wood elves were a bit too ugly for me, and the goblins weren’t ugly enough, and the 70ish music was horrid. In a lot of ways, it reminded me of the Last Unicorn, and it is obvious that the two films come from the same tradition.<P>I disagree about the hobbits, though. I thought the animators did a good job portraying hobbits, and for that matter, dwarves.<P>The Bakshi film… I wish he had never gotten a hold of the rights. Like all his films, that one was simply way too surreal, kind of like an acid trip in Middle-Earth. __________________ I prefer Gillaume d’Férny, connoisseur of fine fruit.

02-10-2003, 01:00 PM	#18
Naldoriathil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London Posts: 71	If you go on <A HREF="http://www.tbhl.com" TARGET=_blank>www.tbhl.com</A> (PJ's official website) then there are links saying that after he's done what he wants to do next, an arty film I believe, he will consider doing The Hobbit. I will look forward to it!. Wonder how he would do Beorn though? __________________ "He is Aragorn, Son of Arathorn, Heir to the Throne of Gondor!"

02-10-2003, 01:52 PM	#19
Vorrothiel Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 14	I think it would have been fun if they made a film out of the Hobbit. But I think I've heard that PJ just don't want to make more Tolkien. This was the first and last time making LOTR. Maybe that's for the better???<BR>I think so... (eventhough it would have been fun) <p>[ February 10, 2003: Message edited by: Vorrothiel ]

02-10-2003, 01:56 PM	#20
Vorrothiel Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 14	Sorry, Naldoriathil. :-) I didn't read your post before I posted mine... Sounds interesting!!! <P>

02-10-2003, 02:40 PM	#21
Peri Wight Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Rivendell Posts: 124	The Hobbit cartoon was a great movie. I love the way they portrayed Gollum in it. That was the perfect Gollum voice. Haven't heard anything about PJ maybe making The Hobbit into a movie, but if he did, I'd love to see it! __________________ "Ah, but I'll begowk ye there!" cried the gentleman. "Play me false, and I'll play you cunning."

02-13-2003, 06:57 PM	#22
*Gilthalion* Hobbitus Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: South Farthing Posts: 635	I still can't read Gandalf (or any other wizardly old man or prophet) without lapsing into a John Huston impersonation. (See my signature for a link to several RealAudio clips where I read from Tolkien's works.)<P>Beorn was NOT in the animated version, but I think they did draw him in their planning. He must have been dropped, for there is a Beorn drawing in the Rankin-Bass illustrated book.<P>I did NOT like RotF by Rankin-Bass. I did like the Bakshi animation of LOTR, but it had many flaws, especially being unfinished. __________________ Please read my fan fiction novel THE HOBBITS. Wanna hear me read Tolkien? Gilthalion's Grand Adventures!

02-13-2003, 07:32 PM	#23
Cibbwin Wight Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: California Posts: 145	I haven't seen the animated movie, but I do think there should be a PJ version. __________________ The Warrior Hobbit Nîn o Chithaeglir, lasto beth daer; Rimmo nîn Bruinen, dan in Ulaer!

02-13-2003, 08:05 PM	#24
balrogman Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: that place with the stuff Posts: 102	Ive heard from a couple places that New Line has the rights to The Hobbit, but they say that if PJ doesnt want to make it, they will probably find another director. Im hopin they do a Silmarillion vid too but they would most likely have to split it up into many movies, it being such a long book.<P>Bally <p>[ February 13, 2003: Message edited by: balrogman ] __________________ should i stay or should i go?

02-14-2003, 10:02 AM	#25
HCIsland Zombie Cannibal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,000	According to what I'm now reading, PJ's original intent was to do The Hobbit and it was Richard Taylor that convinced him to shoot for Lord of the Rings.<P>H.C. __________________ "Stir not the bitterness in the cup that I mixed myself. Have I not tasted it now many nights upon my tongue, foreboding that worse yet lay in the dregs." -Denethor