Sauron's hurry for War? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Deathwail · 12-29-2002, 03:29 AM

Knowing he is so close to regaining his Ring why would Sauron not be doing everything to recover it instead of having his Armies attacking cities he knows the ring is not in?Saruman sent his troops after it and ran into the Fellowship pretty quick and he does not have the power to see the ringbearing that Sauron seems to have with how Frodo always feels Sauron seeking him and getting closer.Just seems odd the one thing in ME that Sauron really needs and its a after thought to his plans. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

Ar-Gilien · 12-29-2002, 03:38 AM

Interesting point: All of the evil characters in the movie, aye, the book as well, seem to forget to look behind them. For example: Sauron is so obsessed with the Ring, finding it, and the War, that Frodo, Sam, and Gollum, sneak right in the back door, and *poof*, destroy the Ring. Or Saruman at Isengard, forgot to look behind him at the great dam that is broken by the ents of Fangorn, thus putting an end to his evil works, and flooding his orc smelting grounds. Even, the Witch King of Angband, who so believes himself invincible from the Prophecy: 'That no man may send death upon him..', yet he's killed by a woman with the aid of a hobbit. For all of their foresight, seems to me they could have used a bit of hindsight as well.

Besides, Sauron attacking cities the Ring is not in, is all part and parcel to the 'Conquer the World' Racket. He's a powerful evil Lord bent on total destruction, why else would he wage total war? (Of course, I could be wrong, and maybe that's just a way he lets off some loose steam, eh?) [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[ December 29, 2002: Message edited by: Ar-Gilien ]

doug*platypus · 12-29-2002, 06:34 AM

In the books, Gandalf and Aragorn both come to the same conclusion that answers your question. Sorry I can't remember exactly where, maybe after Aragorn looks in the Orthanc Stone (Passing of the Grey Company, Book V?). Sauron believes that the goodies have the One Ring, and that either Aragorn or some other great leader is going to use it to challenge his power. Sauron realises that it would take some time for a new user to be able to learn to wield the Ring, and so he attacks quickly, hoping to destroy Rohan and Gondor before the Ring can be used against him. This is Aragorn's main purpose in using the Palantir, to draw Sauron's attention away from Frodo. Same reason that the Army of the West attacks Sauron at the Black Gate.

Hi and welcome to the Barrow Downs, by the way. I've only been around a few days, but it's so snug and cosy I'm sure I'll stick around...

akhtene · 12-29-2002, 06:09 PM

Well,trying to locate a ring in the space of M-E would be like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Sauron's intention to start a war seems quite sound to me, as it could lure a ringbearer within his reach. I mean, if Boromir or someone like him was keeping the Ring, he would definitely hurry to battle and attempt to use the Ring. As doug*platypus states, Sauron didn't believe the Ring could harm him, he just wanted it revealed.
Sauron simply didn't take into account that such power could be refused, and instead of drawing the Ring into his hands, got tangled in the war and let it slip away.

Deathwail · 12-29-2002, 07:16 PM

Thanks for the feedback, i didnt know Sauron thought the ring could not hurt him [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 12-29-2002, 10:32 PM

Wasn't it suggested in the books that Sauron might have thought the ring would be taken to Gondor? I think that's why Sauron was breeding war on Minas Tirith. And then, when Pippin looked into the palantir, didn't Sauron truly believe that the ring was with the hobbits in Isengard? Sauron sent a nazgul speeding to orthanc faster than you can say Mordor. I think that Sauron was trying to destroy minas Tirith before the ring could reach it.

Doug, you said

Quote:

either Aragorn or some other great leader is going to use it to challenge his power

I don't think that Sauron thought that. Sauron did not think that Aragorn was going to use the ring or that someone else would. Aragorn was simply challenging Sauron's mind when looking in the Palantir. Aragorn won and Sauron knew then that Aragorn lives! Sauron was deeply troubled to know that the hier of Isildur exists and Sauron does not forget the blade of Elendil.

So that's another reason why Sauron pressed war. Perhaps he wanted to destroy Minas Tirith or gain the upper hand before teh king of Gondor claims the throne, because that would not only add a great warrior, but it would lift the spirits of the soldiers/people and give great courage and pride. Well, you get the picture.

doug*platypus · 01-10-2003, 05:42 AM

But Gandalf states at the Last Debate that Sauron does not know "which great one" will suddenly appear, wielding the Ring. Sauron is aware of Aragorn and of Gandalf, probably of Faramir and Imrahil as well. I think it is likely that the thought of Isildur's heir, and the One Ring in the same place at the same time, gave him many a sleepless night. Of course, if you're a big unblinking eye, that's bound to happen anyway!

12-29-2002, 03:29 AM	#1
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Sauron's hurry for War? Knowing he is so close to regaining his Ring why would Sauron not be doing everything to recover it instead of having his Armies attacking cities he knows the ring is not in?Saruman sent his troops after it and ran into the Fellowship pretty quick and he does not have the power to see the ringbearing that Sauron seems to have with how Frodo always feels Sauron seeking him and getting closer.Just seems odd the one thing in ME that Sauron really needs and its a after thought to his plans. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ He who arises in Might.

12-29-2002, 03:38 AM	#2
Ar-Gilien Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ossiriand Posts: 26	Interesting point: All of the evil characters in the movie, aye, the book as well, seem to forget to look behind them. For example: Sauron is so obsessed with the Ring, finding it, and the War, that Frodo, Sam, and Gollum, sneak right in the back door, and poof, destroy the Ring. Or Saruman at Isengard, forgot to look behind him at the great dam that is broken by the ents of Fangorn, thus putting an end to his evil works, and flooding his orc smelting grounds. Even, the Witch King of Angband, who so believes himself invincible from the Prophecy: 'That no man may send death upon him..', yet he's killed by a woman with the aid of a hobbit. For all of their foresight, seems to me they could have used a bit of hindsight as well. Besides, Sauron attacking cities the Ring is not in, is all part and parcel to the 'Conquer the World' Racket. He's a powerful evil Lord bent on total destruction, why else would he wage total war? (Of course, I could be wrong, and maybe that's just a way he lets off some loose steam, eh?) [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] [ December 29, 2002: Message edited by: Ar-Gilien ] __________________ "We'll getses you, my preciousss, and your little dog, too!"~Gollum, portraying the Wicked Witch of the West, from 'Wizard of Oz'~

12-29-2002, 06:34 AM	#3
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	In the books, Gandalf and Aragorn both come to the same conclusion that answers your question. Sorry I can't remember exactly where, maybe after Aragorn looks in the Orthanc Stone (Passing of the Grey Company, Book V?). Sauron believes that the goodies have the One Ring, and that either Aragorn or some other great leader is going to use it to challenge his power. Sauron realises that it would take some time for a new user to be able to learn to wield the Ring, and so he attacks quickly, hoping to destroy Rohan and Gondor before the Ring can be used against him. This is Aragorn's main purpose in using the Palantir, to draw Sauron's attention away from Frodo. Same reason that the Army of the West attacks Sauron at the Black Gate. Hi and welcome to the Barrow Downs, by the way. I've only been around a few days, but it's so snug and cosy I'm sure I'll stick around... __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.

12-29-2002, 06:09 PM	#4
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	Well,trying to locate a ring in the space of M-E would be like looking for a needle in a haystack. Sauron's intention to start a war seems quite sound to me, as it could lure a ringbearer within his reach. I mean, if Boromir or someone like him was keeping the Ring, he would definitely hurry to battle and attempt to use the Ring. As doug*platypus states, Sauron didn't believe the Ring could harm him, he just wanted it revealed. Sauron simply didn't take into account that such power could be refused, and instead of drawing the Ring into his hands, got tangled in the war and let it slip away. __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

12-29-2002, 07:16 PM	#5
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	Thanks for the feedback, i didnt know Sauron thought the ring could not hurt him [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] __________________ He who arises in Might.

01-10-2003, 05:42 AM	#7
doug*platypus Delver in the Deep Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Aotearoa Posts: 960	But Gandalf states at the Last Debate that Sauron does not know "which great one" will suddenly appear, wielding the Ring. Sauron is aware of Aragorn and of Gandalf, probably of Faramir and Imrahil as well. I think it is likely that the thought of Isildur's heir, and the One Ring in the same place at the same time, gave him many a sleepless night. Of course, if you're a big unblinking eye, that's bound to happen anyway! __________________ But Gwindor answered: 'The doom lies in yourself, not in your name'.