Legolas and "The Hobbit"

Legolas is the son of Thranduil (the king of Mirkwood), right? Was he in the Battle of Five Armies or any of the other events of "The Hobbit"? if so, does he know/recognize Bilbo or Gloin at the Council of Elrond in "Fellowship"?
just a random question...

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

I don't know, but that's a really good question. I would like to know myself.

[Lush]

Legolas is not mentioned at all in The Hobbit. As for whether or not her "recognizes" anyone at the Council of Elrond, that is not specifically stated either. He does, however, seem to be not so fond of Dwarves in the beginning, so my guess is that no, he doesn't recognize them, doesn't know them, couldn't care less about them, at that point in the game.

[eleanor_niphredil]

I was wondering that myself. I mean, Legolas should have fought in the Battle of five armies, but in that case, why would he hate dwarves so much? Wouldnt he have been helping them then?
Plus, both frodo and Gimli would have known about Gloin and Bilbo being imprisoned in mirkwood (okay, so Bilbo wasnt actualy imprisoned), so they would presumabley know Legolas from the start. If he didnt fight, frodo should hate him as well as Gimli.

To summerise, I really havent the foggiest...

[Kalimac]

Legolas probably did fight in the Battle of the Five Armies (since Tolkien never states anything about him in "The Hobbit" we are free to speculate, but it's reasonable that he would have accompanied his father). But although the Elves and Dwarves became allies, that doesn't mean that they stopped sniping at each other; think of WWI and the English and French. They were on the same side but it didn't stop them from indulging in less-than-complimentary descriptions of each other in the decades afterwards.

As for recognizing Bilbo - of course, in the Elvenking's palace Bilbo was invisible 99.44% of the time, so chances are high that Legolas never laid eyes on him. As for recognizing Gloin - well, for one thing it's been 77 years since they last saw each other, and Gloin's probably changed a bit. Another thing - the Dwarves were bundled straight from the audience with Thranduil into their prison cells, and left only by the cellar. If Legolas didn't happen to be at the audience, he would never have seen them close up. Even if he had been at the audience, it's understandable that he might not remember the face of every one of Thorin's followers.

Battle of the Five Armies: Again, Thorin was the main Dwarf with whom the Elves were treating, so it's unlikely that he ever saw Gloin close up. As for Bilbo - well, we can only assume that Legolas just didn't happen to be in the same tent with Thranduil that night when Bilbo came slipping in with the Arkenstone. A hobbit would, after all, be pretty memorable.

[Legolas]

I mean, Legolas should have fought in the Battle of five armies,

Would you take your only son to war with you? Some would, some wouldn't.

[eleanor_niphredil]

Denathor sent both his sons to war before even thinking of venturing out himself. He tells Pippin that thats what all Lords do, if they are smart.

[Elven-Maiden]

But remember, death for elves is different, since they would live forever unless slain. But since he is such a great warrior, chances are he did fight in many battles. But he was an archer, not a swordsman, so it really would depend on whether his skills would be needed in that battle.

[Lush]

I just saw the words "Denethor" and "smart" in the same sentence. I am going to go off and think really hard about this one. See you in about five years, guys.

[img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Frankly Denethor struck me as a cunning, but not particularly intelligent man, too bundled up in scorn and self-pity to see things for what they are, and so forth. Thranduil, for all his unnecessary badgering of the Dwarves, seems a wiser fellow than that, particularly since Celeborn was a buddy of his...I think.

[eleanor_niphredil]

he was an archer, not a swordsman

din't you see that double sword stuff in the movies? And anyway, an arrow can do just as much damage. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Raefindel]

Actually, Elanor, In the book Legolas was described as having "a long, white knife". Granted, He does use it at Helms Deep after all his arrows are "spent".

The question of whether Legolas was at the Battle of five Armies is an interesting one, but one for which there is not answer.

Thranduil Probablly woudn't have even gone himself and just left Legolas to deal with it if it weren't for all the riches that were at stake; after all he was described as being less in riches as his predecessors and having a greed for riches.It was not an "all-out war", just a Battle. In fact, Thranduil's purpose was not origionally to fight the Goblins and Wargs but to reclaim their share of treasure, by force, if necessary. And if you think about it, none of the elves at that battle are named.

But the other side of the coin is a very valid argument. That, as the only son of the king, Legolas would have been left behind to see to the defense of the kingdom. There was much to defend it from to keep their realm free; Spiders, Goblins and of course, the Necromancer was at work in their realm and they were having to deal with him. It would , therefore, have been very important to leave Legolas behind. It would not do to send everyone out to see an errand done and loose the whole kingdom while you are gone.

[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

[Kalimac]

Denethor doesn't strike me as a cowardly type, but you have to admit, he goes to every possible length to avoid direct confrontation. It's odd - he seems very brave, but in a way he's one of the worst cowards in the books, because he simply refuses to do anything except roll over and die. "Well, I'd probably die anyway if I fought, so why not save the effort and die now?" But he does seem rather past the age for fighting (and not, like Theoden, especially inspired) - it would make sense that Faramir and Boromir would take up those duties. And after news of Boromir's death came, Denethor wasn't very rational and not really acting in anyone's best interests, his own or the kingdom's.

Thranduil does not have old age and despair to contend with; also it's not like there's an issue of "What happens to the kingdom if my heir dies" because Thranduil himself is in for the long haul and theoretically could always have another heir. Also there's no indication that Legolas is his only son. (Same thing with Gimli - we never know if Gloin has half-a-dozen children or if Gimli is it). Even if Legolas is his only son - he did send him to Rivendell as a messenger and is tacitly allowing him to gallivant off with a Fellowship which is in much more theoretical danger than the Battle of the Five Armies ever was. If he'll let a son do that, why not let him accompany him to battle?