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06-19-2003, 11:56 AM | #1 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Bombadil and Gandalf
Last night i nearly finished Rotk for about the 10th time. However i have never really understood one of Gandalf's statments. Speaking of Bombadil he says something to the affect that "he is a moss gatherer and i have been a stone doomed to rolling." What does this mean? He also says that he must leave the hobbits for a time to talk with Bombadil "a talk that i havent had in all my time." What is the significance of this important discussion? Maybe i am way off but perhaps he is handing over his stewardship and care of the Shire to Bombadil and so therefore Bombadil can stop gathering moss and be the rolling stone. That is a wild guess but the only thing i can come up with.
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06-19-2003, 01:23 PM | #2 | ||
Wight
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But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile. |
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06-19-2003, 01:44 PM | #3 | |
Shade of Carn Dűm
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And as for the talk? I think that Gandalf just wanted to have a chat. Yes, bring out the tea and iced buns! Maybe your right in some ways about Tom looking after the Shire etc, but I don't really think that he would do that. He seems just to stay around the Old Forest and not to go into the Shire much. Plus, the Shire won't need much care now that the war is over. I'd guess that Tom was a pretty interesting person (or whatever he is) so Gandalf simply wanted to talk with him. About what? It's a mystery. Or perhaps Gandalf knows more about this 'enigma' than we do. Maybe he knows his real purpose? Who knows? Boy, that was a mysterious post!
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06-19-2003, 04:21 PM | #4 |
Beholder of the Mists
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I personally think that what the discussion means is that Bombadil is much more important than he appears. I can't recall right now but I think I heard something about Bombadil talking with the elves that are traveling through that area and gathering information that Gandalf did not know about it. I think that Gandalf was probably inquiring Tom B. about if there was any effect on the woods around his home because of the growing power in the East.
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06-19-2003, 06:16 PM | #5 |
Deathless Sun
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It seems to me that Gandalf was sort of handing over his guardianship of the Shire to Tom Bombadil. I mean, he had no reason to keep guarding it. He stayed to keep a watch over the Bagginses, especially Bilbo, and later Frodo, because they had a Ring of Power. When Frodo left with the Ring, Gandalf was with him, guarding what he had originally wanted to guard. Now that Sauron was defeated, and evil vanquished for a long time, the Shire didn't need to be guarded. Aragorn would keep a watch over his northern borders, and the Rangers were still roaming about. The Shire had plenty of protection, and Gandalf knew that Tom would be around for a looong time, so he asked him to keep an eye on the Shire for him.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
06-19-2003, 07:09 PM | #6 | ||
A Northern Soul
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The first: Bombadil wasn't anymore interested in keeping watch over the Shire than he was keeping watch over the Ring - he is quite aloof; that is, detached. He thinks only of himself and his neck of the woods. Gandalf studied hobbits and their lore before he met Bilbo. Perhaps you missing the Scouring of the Shire and the following chapters? One of the major reasons for the four hobbits going along on the journey to prepare themselves to fight their own battles - Gandalf knew his time would be up when Sauron fell, and that evil spreads everywhere (including the Shire, whose time would come). Gandalf couldn't/wouldn't going to watch over the Shire forever, nor would/should anyone else when he left. This is the entire point of those final chapters where the Shire is in danger. Note Gandalf's words towards the end of Homeward Bound (7,VI). He spells it out: Quote:
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06-19-2003, 07:56 PM | #7 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I see the stone/moss gatherer bit as...Gandalf is very concerned with what is/is going to happen. He is a "mover and shaker" of the current events of ME. (in that age) Tom Bombadil could care less! He has stopped movement...finding his place and time in the world and staying there. He can grow moss, he is not moving.
I see Gandalf's conversation with Tom being unusual, because Tom is older and in a certain sense perhaps *wiser* than Gandalf. An opportunity for Gandalf to talk to someone who can tell him a thing or two! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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06-20-2003, 07:10 AM | #8 | ||
King's Writer
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Posted by Liriodendron:
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Respectfully Findegil |
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06-20-2003, 11:02 AM | #9 | |
Wight
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But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile. |
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06-20-2003, 06:45 PM | #10 | |
Corpus Cacophonous
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06-20-2003, 07:24 PM | #11 |
Cryptic Aura
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Perhaps it is simply a writer's quickhand way of trying to establish some credibility for Bombadil, of tying together some loose ends at the end of the book and attempting to integrate into the story a character who does not play an active role in the main plot.
And note that, despite the alleged importance of Goldberry for Frodo, there is no mention here at the end of her. She disappears; it is only Bombadil who matters. Bęthberry [ June 20, 2003: Message edited by: Bęthberry ]
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06-24-2003, 12:56 PM | #12 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
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The women tend to all disappear, don't they. But that doesnot matter, I think that Gandalf just wanted to talk to him. About what I don't know, sometimed it is best not to wonder. Maybe he was going to give the guardiansip of the Shire to him, maybe he just wanted to tell him the reacent events. That is what I think.
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06-24-2003, 03:30 PM | #13 | ||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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There are some great points mentioned here.
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And if Gandalf wanted to finally relax and become a moss gatherer, then he might have wanted to make sure all his errands were completed and to make sure that what was left to do (throwing out Saruman and fixing the Shire) was a task that could be completed without his aid. Quote:
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If I cared so much about my land, and held it precious to my heart, I would keep a close eye on the surrounding lands. If I were Tom, and I saw what was once a peaceful Shire, be overrun by evil, I would expecting it to spread. It's like a neighborhood. You care about your house, so you have to care about your neighborhood. You have to watch out for any threats in the surrounding houses in order to endure the safety of your house and all who dwell in it. Tom had to have had a care about the Shire, one way or another. [ June 25, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]
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06-27-2003, 10:49 PM | #14 |
Haunting Spirit
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tom is the "moss" that never moves. He "is", as goldberry said. He is as old as time, and has stayed in his boundaries for all the ages. Gandalf of course, has never called one place home. A good analogy was the one made earlier about the boulder with no moss. I also believe Gandalf wanted to have the conversation with him because it was the last real conversation with a wise being, that he would have in middle earth. dont get met wrong, the captains of the west, elrond, ect. were all wise, but tom is ancient, like his counterpart treebeard. I believe Gandalf maybe linked the two together, and tom was the missing piece of his puzzle for the lore of middle earth and its years. who is tom bombadil? HE IS....
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07-29-2003, 11:07 AM | #15 |
Wight
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here is a question, what was Gandalf doing betweent he years when he left the hobbits to have his little chat with Tom, and when he came to the grey havens, was he with Aragorn, as an advicer, in rivendell with bilbo and elrond, or just wandering? his chat with bombadil coudn't have lasted for 20 or so years, howeverlong it was.
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07-29-2003, 11:36 AM | #16 |
Tyrannus Incorporalis
Join Date: Jun 2003
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I believe the answer is probably a mix of all of those, Lore Master. I would imagine that he did often visit Aragorn, as well as maintaining his relationships with the folk of Rivendell, Mirkwood and with the Dwarves in the area. Don't forget, Maiar too are subject to emotion, and Gandalf probably wanted to say goodbye to the vast lands that he had helped save from the hand of Sauron. I would imagine that between his visit with Bombadil and the Grey Havens, his main occupation was wandering about Middle Earth, talking to old friends and relations and visiting many lands, and saying cheers to the Mortal Lands forever.
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08-02-2003, 08:17 PM | #17 |
Pile O'Bones
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good old gandalf was also known as that olorin character right? he was a mair angellic thingy and tom was created with the world. maybe gandalf got back his good old mair memories and wanted to chat about the good old days before these pesky mortals got in the way. was not olorin one of the wisest angel thingys maybe he had some questions so he could keep his reputation up. the memory is the first to go ya know.
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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither,Deep roots are not reached by the frost. |
08-02-2003, 08:24 PM | #18 |
Tyrannus Incorporalis
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Welcome to the Downs, William.
Gandalf, or Olorin, was a Maiar and Bombadil's true nature is unknown to all but (or perhaps including) Professor Tolkien. Good point, perhaps they were reminiscing on the days 'before these pesky mortals got in the way'. Who knows if Olorin and Bombadil had met at some point before the Third Age?
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...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence. |
08-02-2003, 08:26 PM | #19 |
Pile O'Bones
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yes it is late and i would gladly use the correct terminollagy if i could but i am terribly wearied i do indeed know it but it does not come to mind as it used.
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All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither,Deep roots are not reached by the frost. |
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