Couple Questions - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Morgoth Bauglir · 06-06-2003, 05:51 PM

While the fellowship is on caradhras, there is a terrible snow storm. In the movie, its caused by saruman. However, if my memory serves me, in the book Sauron caused it, correct?Thanks

Also, whats the name of that thing in the water, by moria?thanks

Iarwain · 06-06-2003, 05:57 PM

It is never clearly stated: who or what caused the storm. However, they do list possiblities, and while Saruman is not one of them, Sauron and Cahadhras are. In the end, it's really up to the reader to speculate about such things.

Iarwain

Lyra Greenleaf · 06-06-2003, 06:10 PM

In "The Ring Goes South" Aragorn says:

Quote:

There are many evil and unfriendly things in the world which have little love for those that go on two legs, and yet are not in league with Sauron, but have purposes of their own.

Then Gimli says:

Quote:

Caradhras was called the cruel, and had an ill name long years ago, when rumour of Sauron had not yet been heard in these lands

But Gandalf, very practically, says:

Quote:

It matters little who is the enemy, if we cannot beat off his attack

So, as Iarwain said, you decide!

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 06-06-2003, 06:11 PM

The Watcher in the Water is the name of the thing in the water right outside Moria.

[ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

Phoenix · 06-09-2003, 07:41 PM

The creator of the storm was Carahras, and the creature in the water was the Watcher.

Legolas · 06-09-2003, 10:26 PM

The storm was the "ill will of Caradhras."

Gimli speaks more of it (in addition to the quote above):

Quote:

Gimli looked up and shook his head. `Caradhras has not forgiven us.' he said. `He has more snow yet to fling at us, if we go on. The sooner we go back and down the better.'

Quote:

`Ah, it is as I said,' growled Gimli. 'It was no ordinary storm. It is the ill will of Caradhras. He does not love Elves and Dwarves, and that drift was laid to cut off our escape.'
'But happily your Caradhras has forgotten that you have Men with you,' said Boromir, who came up at that moment. `And doughty Men too, if I may say it; though lesser men with spades might have served you better. Still, we have thrust a lane through the drift; and for that all here may be grateful who cannot run as light as Elves.'

Quote:

`Yonder is the Dimrill Stair,' said Aragorn, pointing to the falls. 'Down the deep-cloven way that climbs beside the torrent we should have come, if fortune had been kinder.'
`Or Caradhras less cruel,' said Gimli. `There he stands smiling in the sun! ' He shook his fist at the furthest of the snow-capped peaks and turned away.

Selmo · 06-10-2003, 03:34 AM

It's possible that the members of the fellowship, because of their upbringing and their doubts about their mission, were looking for supernatural causes for the storm that just weren't there.
It's perfectly natural for violent storms to occur in the mountains in winter.

I know they weren't expecting so much snow so far south and so late in the winter but I've experienced unexpected and unseasonal conditions in mountains myself. I've also heard "fell voices in the air" and atributed them to nothing more than the wind amongst the rocks.

06-06-2003, 05:51 PM	#1
Morgoth Bauglir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 252	Couple Questions While the fellowship is on caradhras, there is a terrible snow storm. In the movie, its caused by saruman. However, if my memory serves me, in the book Sauron caused it, correct?Thanks Also, whats the name of that thing in the water, by moria?thanks

06-06-2003, 05:57 PM	#2
Iarwain Pugnaciously Primordial Paradox Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Birnham Wood Posts: 800	It is never clearly stated: who or what caused the storm. However, they do list possiblities, and while Saruman is not one of them, Sauron and Cahadhras are. In the end, it's really up to the reader to speculate about such things. Iarwain __________________ "And what are oaths but words we say to God?"

06-06-2003, 06:11 PM	#4
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	The Watcher in the Water is the name of the thing in the water right outside Moria. [ June 06, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ] __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

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06-09-2003, 07:41 PM	#5
Phoenix Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jun 2003 Posts: 15	The creator of the storm was Carahras, and the creature in the water was the Watcher.

06-10-2003, 03:34 AM	#7
Selmo Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: The Shire (Staffordshire), United Kingdom Posts: 273	It's possible that the members of the fellowship, because of their upbringing and their doubts about their mission, were looking for supernatural causes for the storm that just weren't there. It's perfectly natural for violent storms to occur in the mountains in winter. I know they weren't expecting so much snow so far south and so late in the winter but I've experienced unexpected and unseasonal conditions in mountains myself. I've also heard "fell voices in the air" and atributed them to nothing more than the wind amongst the rocks.