Pippin's Sixth Sense

[Kalimac]

This is a spinoff of the discussion on Aragorn_the_King's "Pippin's foolish stone" thread. One thing that occurred to several of us was that Pippin has a rather strange affinity for what Sam would call "unnatural" things; he seems to be called by a sort of sixth sense that the others don't experience. Instances cited were, of course, the stone in the well and the Palantir (Tolkien uses almost exactly the same phraseology in both cases: "Pippin was curiously attracted to the...") and also the fact that in "Uruk-Hai" Pippin has what is almost a vision of Strider running along, bending down to look for their trail in the grass.

Pippin is also the one, who, back in the Old Forest, feels so strongly oppressed by the atmosphere that he actually starts shouting "Let us out! Just let us pass through!" They're all feeling the hostility of the forest, but it certainly looks like it's struck a real nerve with Pippin for some reason. And at last, when he meets with Denethor, Tolkien describes how their eyes meet and how there seems to be sort of connection or understanding between them - I would posit that this might be because Pippin has a touch of the weakness for the otherworldly which Denethor also possesses (they both have looked into Palantiri that weren't theirs, after all).

So what do you think? Maybe it's sheer coincidence and I'm reading far too much into this, but it does seem like the veil between the ordinary and the supernatural is much thinner for Pippin than it is for the other hobbits, even Frodo under ordinary circumstances.

[engwaalphiel]

Good point Kalimac ,
I felt that also . At first it may seem that it is Pippin's relative youth to the rest of the fellowship , but I have the same inkling that it runs a lot further than just his curiousity.

Tolkien describes how their eyes meet and how there seems to be sort of connection or understanding between them

This is where Pippin's journey really came into light with me . From innocent curiousity of the shire to an understanding / connection with Denethor is a long way to come. The turning point for pippin was looking into the palantir in my view. The shock that hit him was almost a shock of realisation of what was happening and from then on he "grew up ".
Also as said in the Pippin's foolish stone thread , he was a Took and took's were adventurous so and so's perhaps the knowledge of journey of the years was somehow in pippin's blood. Again we may be reading in too far but you never know .

[Diamond18]

Very good idea, Kalimac. I can't say that it occured to me while reading the book, but the instances you cited do seem to point to it. I do wonder though if they were just coincidences, and if say Merry was as rash as Pippin the well and the Palantír would have called out to him as well.

And then of course you could go back to the part in "The Hobbit" where Tolkien says:

It was often said (in other families) that long ago one of the Took ancestors must have taken a fairy wife. That was, of course, absurd, but certainly there was still something not entirely hobbitlike about them.

Absurd or not, it would certainly explain any magical tendencies that Pippin might exhibit.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Good points all of you. Pippin is my favorite hobbit and I think there is a special quality to him almost like a sixth sense. I think about it in two ways. First, Pippin has his innocence when he starts the journey. He doesn't really see how important this journey is and he acts rather foolishly at times. I think that he did that stuff because he doesn't have that caution that would keep him from doing those things. He can act somewhat irrationally. When he throws the stone, that's one. Or when he calls out in the forest. Merry obviously wouldn't have because he would be more cautious and not want to disturb the forest. And I think that he was drawn to the palanitr out of curiosity. If Pippin had had more 'common sense', he would have raelized that Gandalf would get mad at him for picking up the palantir at orthanc. Maybe Pippin had a lack of common sense instead of a sixth, Just a thought. I think that Pippin did seem to 'grow up' when he looked into the palantir, as engwaalphiel said. But, I think that Pippin began to 'grow uo' before that. As the journey progressed, he seemed to lose his innocence. He began to realize what was going on (especially by how mad Gandalf got when he did something 'stupid'). I think that he did began to 'grow up' earlier. For example, Pippin became somewhat smarter when he left his brooch as a sign. That was very helpful. And he was the one to free his hands. Anyways, I think it started before the palantir.

The other way I think of it is that Pippin did have a sixth sense. He did seem to be drawn to ceartain things. When he threw the stone, it said, "Pippin felt curiously attracted by the well." Pippin kind of had the fellings where you are just so curious and drawn to something that you have to do it. It wouldn't really be called a 'sense' but it happened quite frequently. In the Old Forest, Pippin could not bear it any longer so he shouted out. Maybe Pippin could sense that something was going to happen quite soon and he had to object ot it, or maybe he felt the hostility but it was more intense with Pippin. With the palantir, Pippin could not stand it any longer and he had to look. He knew there was something odd about it and he seemed to be bothered by it. He had that feeling again. He had to know, even if it was dangerous and even if he wasn't supposed to. It wasn't like he was doing it but not knowing he shouldn't, the fact is he did know he shouldn't. In the case of the palantir and the well, Tolkien specifically says that he felt an impulse. Pippen just acted. He did think about it and the way he slowly did it made it seem like he was resisting, but once he thought about doing it, he had to. It's very stange. I think that Pippin has certain aspects and qualities that make him special, especially his curious and impulsive sides. However, there is not that much information about Pippin so its hard to tell.

[Orual]

Those are all excellent points, and I also noticed those phrases when I read the Lord of the Rings. There was something different about Pippin--different from the rest of the hobbits, I mean. I suppose there are two options: to credit it to his "Tookishness," or to credit it to, somehow, fate working through him. If he hadn't thrown his "foolish stone," then it's quite likely that the Balrog never would've come, Gandalf wouldn't have fallen and--most importantly--Gandalf wouldn't have come back as the White. That stone of Pippin's put a lot of huge events into motion. His shouting in the Forest wasn't quite as pivotal, but it did reveal a sensitivity to the atmosphere of the Forest in him. And I think that his connection with Denethor came, as has been said, quite possibly from the fact that they had both looked into the palantiri, and also as sort of a sign of his change. Pippin and Merry don't *seem* to change as much as Sam and Frodo do (save, of course, for their physical growth thanks to the Ent-draught), but I think that beneath their veils of cheerfulness and hobbitish lightness, they were very changed by the quest. It's apparent in the Scourging of the Shire that they're no longer your average hobbit--less so than before. But I digress, and will cease before I get too far off topic.

~*~Orual~*~

[Diamond18]

I agree with Orual about Merry and Pippin changing more than Tolkien says they did:

If they were now so large and magnificent, they were unchanged otherwise, unless they were indeed more fairspoken and more jovial and full of merriment that ever before.

That just can't be so, unless they reverted back after undergoing the change. Because there's already all these marked changes about them that we get to read about. Especially Merry, who got Black Breath in his face twice and came this close to dying.

So even though Tolkien says that they were "more jovial and full of merriment" they had to have at least some added wisdom and thoughtfulness in their manner. Or at least, I would hope so!

Okay, so that's wandering from Pippin's specific capabilites, but Orual's comment got me to thinking about that part that I disagree with Tolkien about.

[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

[Man-of-the-Wold]

This is a cool thread of essentially complete concurrence.

I validate the observation's of Pippin. He is more spiritual than the others, and in someways much like Bilbo in his impulsiveness. He is also quite closely related to Bilbo, who was half Took. Kudos on the Hobbit quote.

I think both he and Merry change quite a bit, not so much in terms of where they end up -- both Sam and Frodo have had much more life-altering and deeper experiences -- but more from where they started.

Sam & Frodo are both in one way or another somewhat mature. Sam is simple, and really never changes in that particular sense, being a matter of pragmatic, humble attitude rather than intelligence, and his intuitive skills are uncanny.

But both Merry & Pippin (presumably Pippen more so) are both rather immature, and come from fairly innocent backgrounds. There willingness to make Frodo take them is more uninformed bravado than anything. They go from a point of merely young Hobbits (the good points of which they always retain) to being among the greatest figures in the West of Middle-Earth, buried among the great of Gondor, amoung the only four of the Fellowship to die in Middle-Earth.

I also have always liked the parallel between Gondor-Rohan and Pippin-Merry. Merry is I think all along destined to be the Master of Buckland, which is not technically part of the Shire and in many ways comparable to what Rohan is relative to Gondor. Pippen on the other hand becomes associated with the Guard and Stewards in Minas Tirith, which very much compares to the Thainship of the Shire, to which Pippin is heir, and who like the Steward is a stand-in until the King Returns.

[Arwen Imladris]

Pippin is also the youngest hobbit, could that have something to do with it? I agree that Pippin is different, but could it not be just because he is young?

[Tirinor]

Pippin has self-control issues, and he's an idiot.

It also may have something to do with group dynamics. When in a group, people tend to assume roles, become more stereotypical. Pippin was an afterthought to the Fellowship, so he behaved as such. When he and Merry are seperated from the fellowship, he acts differently, with more awareness (leaving the brooch).

Obviously Pippin isn't real and saying things like Pippin tossed the stone into the well because he was crying out for attention, would be taking things a bit too far, but I think that what can be done is acknowledge the craft of Tolkien, noting the consistensies of his characters. He wrote Pippin as a young, foolish, Took along for the ride, and that's exactly what we got - as if he was real.

Great post by-the-way, Man-of-the-Wold. It's good to see that you're still around.

[ December 14, 2002: Message edited by: Tirinor ]

[mordor136]

All I can say is that you guys have given me some things to think about. Well, maybe things are just like that in middle-earth?
Anyway its still really cool to think about.

[akhtene]

Yeah, Pippin does seem quite different from his other companions.
In the book (the most part of it anyway) Pippin is the only one who enjoys the luxury of being just himself. Unlike him, other hobbits have tasks to do or roles to play. To say nothing of Frodo and Sam, even Merry is in the position of an older friend who wouldn't risk losing face.
Pippin isn't burdened with anything or attached to anyone. (I mean before he entered into Denethor's service. That started his 'growing up') All his wits and senses are open to the world. Of course, in his innocense and curiosity, he is drawn by everything unusual and magical. And his reactions are absolutely spontaneous. Isn't that normal hobbit behaviour? Remember Bilbo who had also acted mostly on impulse, when not watched by neighbours or worried by his property.
As Kalimac stated

it does seem like the veil between the ordinary and the supernatural is much thinner for Pippin than it is for the other hobbits

but, imho, only because his mind is not really troubled by anything

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

(I mean before he entered into Denethor's service. That started his 'growing up')

I have to really disagree with you. How did that start his 'growing up'? What about leaving the brooch. He actually took his capture serious and left a sign, and that was before Denethor. I think that Pippin was 'growing up' all throughout the journey. Maybe it didn't seem so, but I think that getting yelled at made him 'grow up' a little. I even think that he began to 'grow up' from the moment he left the shire. And even if you don't believe that, at least he started 'growing up' before he met Denethor.

[akhtene]

What I meant by "growing up" was Pippin's becoming less impulsive, more responsible.
As for leaving his brooch - a child could do that, like in fairy tales stolen kids mark the way with crumbs, beads etc. Pippin isn't a moron after all.
He even entered the service quite on impulse - I believe partly to prove that he wasn't worthless. But after that - not a trouble he got into, plus two saved lives - Faramir's and most probably Merry's. And in the first case he got Beregond to deal with the situation, and later carried out Gandalf's request to find his wounded friend. That's why I say he's 'grown up'
[img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Yes he did do a great deal of 'growing up' then, but you have to admit, it didn't start when he went into service for Denethor.

As for leaving his brooch - a child could do that, like in fairy tales stolen kids mark the way with crumbs, beads etc.

Yes a child could do that. But if its such a simple and obvious task, then why didn't Merry do it? And an elven brooch given by Galadriel is not the equivilent of a crumb or a bead. Pippin even said he had a hard time in giving it up. But Pippin realized that it was very important that he did. Before he didn't realize the importance of the quest and the danger. Now he's a captive of the orcs and he realizes the danger. Instead of fooling around, and doing something stupid, he acts serious and does something smart. Right there, he did a great deal of 'growing up'.

[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[Belin]

he's an idiot

Really, I’m tired of hearing this. Pippin is an extraordinarily clever hobbit; the many stratagems he uses in his escape from the orcs are truly remarkable and rival Bilbo’s quick thinking in many parts of The Hobbit. (like Man of the Wold, I see many similarities between the two.) He is foolish –impulsive and likely to act, well, hastily rather than thinking through all the possible consequences, and he’s also inexperienced and doesn’t know how to behave on an epic quest (after all, he’s never been on one before), but this isn’t the same thing; he’s quite capable of having very good ideas.

As to the topic at hand, I wonder if it may have to do with another thing I’ve noticed about Pippin—his betweenness. He is often the one to bridge the gap between the many polarities that Tolkien sets up in the story. Frodo and Gollum are obviously contrasted, and Pippin imitates both of them at the same moment when fooling Grishnákh into thinking he has the Ring. So are Frodo and Sauron, the opposite Ringbearers, and Pippin collapses them into one entity as well when he calls Frodo “the Lord of the Ring.” Gandalf tells Pippin that he is “caught between two such terrible old men,” himself and Denethor, inviting us to think about the differences between the two of them. A comparison to Theoden is also made here; Pippin is the one who gets to stand before each of them (interestingly, Merry never meets Denethor). Outside world vs. the Shire? Sure, he finds himself almost asked to sing at Denethor’s table and is only prepared for Shire-songs (although Frodo has a moment like this too, with Faramir), and after all, he is the one that comes back to be Thain of the Shire, though he lives out his days in Gondor. War and peace? Yeah, he’s the one that tries to salvage what’s left of Denethor’s family in the midst of war. Boromir vs. Faramir? Pippin helps bring out the death/life dichotomy between them by volunteering for Denethor’s army for Boromir’s sake (death) and naming his son after Faramir (life). And, intriguingly enough, he is in his “tweens.”

So where am I going with this? Well, that’s a good question. I’m not sure. But it occurs to me that the veil between lots of different things seems to be thinner for Pippin. This may have something to do with the fact that he finds himself so often and so thoroughly out of place (he doesn’t adapt as well as others, I think, and this may have to do with ahktene’s point about him being just himself), so that he is either more used to or more sensitive to ways of moving between.

Does this make sense to anybody?

--Belin Ibaimendi

[Kalimac]

Wow! I love all the ideas here [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] - thanks so much, guys! Belin, you're right - I hadn't realized, but Pippin is "in between" quite a lot more than any of the other characters (in terms of meeting both Theoden and Denethor, naming his son after Faramir/serving for the memory of Boromir and things like that). Of course without the Palantir, he would never have met Denethor, and by extension saved Faramir's life, so maybe that call he felt to look into the Palantir was actually an impulse of good, or at least had some good mixed in with it. After all, Gandalf himself said that if Pippin hadn't looked, he himself might have done so and perhaps done far worse harm to the Quest than Pippin possibly could have. So now that I think about it, both times in which Pippin is "curiously attracted" involve Gandalf heavily. Without the stone, Gandalf may well have never fought the Balrog and been reborn as Gandalf the White, and without the Palantir Gandalf might have accidentally given away the store to Sauron. Thomas Aquinas would probably have pointed to that as an example of his idea that one of the great blessings of God is that "out of evil cometh good", but that still leaves the source of Pippin's initial prompting somewhat mysterious. (I'm not trying to get into a theological wrangle - just thought the phrase was apt).

Groundskeeper-Willie - I agree that Pippin definitely started growing up before he met Denethor; it was just more gradual in the first book and happened by leaps and bounds in the second and third. Though about dropping the brooch - in defense of Merry, he was wounded and semi-conscious for most of the first day or two of the march and was probably still fairly groggy when Pippin dropped his brooch, so his wits probably weren't quite in full working order. Not to take any credit away from Pippin, of course; whoever dropped the pin, it would be a very clever thing to do.

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Yeah, I guess it was hard for Merry to be fully aware of the situation at the time. But here's a thought: do you think that the orc drink had anything to do with Pippin using his wits to drop the brooch? It says in the book that Pippin's wits were wide awake when he drank the drink, and that was right before he dropped the brooch. I think that it also might have had to do with Pippin running to the side and leaving clear signs for Strider. (Oh yeah, Akhtene, even if a stupid child could have dropped a sign, would they be smart enough to run aside to leave fresh and clear signs? I think not)

I also think that the ent drink was partly responsible for Pippin's 'growing up' (not just physically). I think that it could have had some long term effects. And maybe the orc drink did too, but there really is nothing to suggest long term effects of the drinks; its just a thought.

I think that at the moment, the orc drink helped Pippin's wits. But I think that it might have been an 'awakening' for Pippin. I still think that Pippin began to 'grow up' from the moment he left the shire. But when he dropped the brooch, I think that's when it really picked up. When he left the shire, his 'growing up' was like water trickeling down a stream, as the journey progressed, it gradually got bigger, but it was still small. When he dropped the brooch, it was like it became a raging river or rapids. Never had Pippin been a captive before. I think that he 'woke up' right there. He truly saw the danger he was in. He had always been in the protection of others. Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, and Boromir. Before the became captives, Boromir was defending them, and even then, so was Merry, as he cut off several orc limbs. But after that, they got knocked out and found themselves as captives. For the first time, Pippin was alone (with the exception of Merry). He knew that there was no one to protect him or to try anything. Merry couldn't, he was out cold or just extremely exhausted. So for the first time, it was up to Pippin. Pippin realized this.

'What good have I been? Just a nuisance: a passenger, a piece of luggage. And now I have been stolen and I am just a piece of luggage for the Orcs.I hope Strider or someone will come and claim us! But ought I to hope for it?Won't that throw out all the plans? I wish I could get free!

Pippin always felt like he was worthless, especially after he did something stupid. He wanted to be more than just 'extra baggage'. So Pippin decided to do something himself, instead of having others do it. He used to fool around and not pay attention to most things around him, but for the first time, his mind was focused. He listened attentively to the orcs and when one was killed, he took advantage of the situation and cut the rope on his wrists. After that, he had some orc drink (which I think helped) and left the brooch and the clear signs.

Pippin had done a good deal of 'growing up' there. Big parts of 'growing up' include maturing, making decisions for yourself, and being on your own; alone, or independent. So Pippin went through some big changes at that time.

So next time, think twice before you call Pippin an idiot or say that he didn't start growing up until Denethor, thanks. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[Diamond18]

Idiot: a person affected with idiocy; esp : a feebleminded person having a mental age not exceeding three years and requiring complete custodial care

Pippin an idiot, indeed! Ha!

I think that Pippin began growing up with the death of Boromir, but that his growth reached its climax with Denethor. He never became as grave or scholarly as Frodo, but that's no insult. Like I've said, Pippin had a bright mind that was just cluttered by youth and hobbitry. Just like it took the Quest to reveal Sam's bravery, it took the Quest to reveal Pippin's intelligence.

I think it's very short-sighted to write Pippin off as an idiot or any other degrading term for metal capacity. His character is a very good example of how people are not always what they seem. People who only glance at the surface of the story might see a stereotype or a good character to make the comic relief *coughcoughPJcoughcough* but it doesn't take much to see that there's more to him than that. I find his character quite inspirational really: the foolish young hobbit who becomes a hero. Everyone can see from the start that Frodo is an exceptional hobbit but it takes the unfolding of the story for Sam, Merry and Pippin to show their salt. I really like that in a story.

[ December 15, 2002: Message edited by: Diamond18 ]

[Tirinor]

idiot.

[Tirinor]

I'm kidding of course. The context of my post would, hopefully, suggest that I thought more of Pippin than Diamond18's useful definition suggests. When Gandalf calls Pippin "a fool of a Took" he is not saying he is a literal fool, but that he acts foolishly. I was merely implying in an exaggerated fashion that Pippin acts idiotically - synonymis to foolishly.

I realize the tone of the disscussion doesn't lend itself to such exageration, so I will refrain from doing it anymore on this thread. Except to say that Gandalf was a know-it-all.

[Diamond18]

Ah, well, I read the dictionary for fun and I love discussing the characterization of Pippin so you must excuse me if I become too literal. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[Tirinor]

No excuse nessessary. I wasn't deliberate in my characterization, and I was called on it. I have no problem with that.

[doug*platypus]

Belin, I have to disagree with your version of Pippin. Up until your post everything (most of which made sense) highlighted the fact that Pippin is an extreme member of the fellowship; a good case could be made for him being the most immature character in Middle-Earth. "Hooray for Frodo, Lord of the Ring!" Gawd. Of course, the immature and positively hasty tendencies he has in the first book only make his development more obvious. He is much more like Bilbo than Frodo is, and his journey through maturity in the books is quite similar to Bilbo's. Initially he is little more than a pest, but by the end (The Scouring of the Shire) he is absolutely crucial to his friends' success.

He does indeed seem more curious than his companions, partly his Tookishness, and partly his youth, but I don't see too much real evidence for a sixth sense. Many of the characters in the book have foresight to some degree - Gandalf, Aragorn, Faramir, even Sam. I don't think that Pippin's motive at the old well in Moria was to aid the death and reincarnation of Gandalf. I'm more inclined to believe the

self-control issues

explanation. And as for the idea that he has more of a sixth sense than Frodo, that sounds more like wishful thinking to me.

[mark12_30]

Somewhere in the letters, Tolkien talks about post-quest Frodo wanting to have been a great hero, instead of wanting to be what he was-- an instrument in the hands of God; and how that was a temptation to prideful sin for Frodo, and one of the things that he needed healing for in the West.

So it is a theme of Tolkien's, I believe, that one must be willing to be a humble instrument in the hands of God, and do one's part as best one can even, especially, if it is beyond one's understanding.

This is how I see Pippin's "foolish stone", and equally importantly, his looking into the Palantir. Certainly, both these actions set great chains of events into motion; and just as certainly, Pippin anticipated neither of those chains of events.

Nevertheless, Pippin gazing into the Palantir was exactly what Frodo needed. It gave Sauron the illusion that the Ringbearer had been captured by Saruman; and then when his Nazgul discovered that Saruman no longer had the palantir, and Aragorn challenged Sauron in that same palantir, then Sauron had to assume that now, Aragorn had the ring.

All this drew Sauron's attention westward, away from his won borders, so that even reports of spies and a mithril coat and a blade of Westernesse had little interest for Sauron.

Did Pippin plan all that? No. But he was certainly used to make it happen. Did his sense of the superatural give him an affinity, an openness to doing something unorthodox (one can't picture Merry dropping the rock, or stealing the Palantir) that will have unforeseen consequences? Yes, I think so.

He certainly grows up during the quest (they all do); he certainly connects with Denethor (he loved Boromir and he'd looked into the Palantir, two items in common); yes he's impulsive and more like Bilbo. But I think Tolkien would look at it all from the "instrument in the hands of God" viewpoint. And in that sense, his impulsiveness and sensitivity comes in handy, making him easier to "steer".

[Carlas]

Many people have thought that it was his foolishness and curiosity that made him do all those things that he did. i.e. dropping the stone in the well. And I agree with them!

Pippin is immature, but that is what makes him a Took, and I think, the reason he has a 'sixth sense'.

It was often said (in other families) that long ago one of the Took ancestors must have taken a fairy wife. That was, of course, absurd, but certainly there was still something not entirely hobbitlike about them.

In most fairy stories, fairies are curious and usually immature creatures, which would explain Pippin. But I think it is his curiosity that gives him his 'sixth sense', if he was not curious most of this would not have happened.

Im not saying that he has no real 'sixth sense', I think he does. But I think it is his childish behavior, not too many others are that foolish at that age.

[Tinuviel87]

Just to be my usual ambivilent self...
I agree with Mark in the aspect of Pippin being a 'tool of God'- to a certain degree.I don't believe, however, that Pippin simpler actions, like throwing the stone, can really be compared on such a level to Frodo and his quest to destroy the ring. Frodo was mostly aware of what he was getting himself into, eventually if not right away. Pippin was just, well, being Pippin, he didn't know the effect the stone or the palantir would have, while Frodo knew what the Ring was and what is was capable of and he knew the doom it would likely bring him.
Also, I love Kalimac's concept of Pippin's sixth sense, but I don't necessarily agree with it. It's my guess that Pippin was simply behaving on his michevious instinct, and fate took care of the rest. In cases like giving his service to Denethor and throwing the brooch, Pippin was becoming more...useful in his decisions, but either way he remains impulsive, even to the end of the book, which is what I think Tolkien meant when he said that M&P reamined "unchanged". Obviously they were changed in some way, how could they not be. I think it is meant to be taken as that they still maintained their Hobbitsh personailites and the stronger traits they had even in the beginning.

[ May 15, 2003: Message edited by: Tinuviel87 ]

[Lyta_Underhill]

I suppose it was inevitable that I would find this thread eventually. It is refreshing to see such well-considered analyses of Mr. Peregrin Took, who is definitely not an idiot!

One aspect I have not seen addressed directly is really a look at his rapport with another of the Fellowship and how the other may have seen something of the cosmic "other world" in Pippin that was hidden but worked for the good of all Middle Earth. I am talking about Gandalf! Gandalf seemed to take special interest in Pippin, admonishing him and looking after him very closely. One could argue that this is the grandfatherly figure keeping the young one in line, but I also think that Gandalf saw a spark in Pippin that ties in to the "instrument of divine will" idea and also to the idea he expounds explicity upon to Frodo concerning the "even the wise cannot see all ends" concept. Gandalf is the one who argues for Pippin's inclusion in the Fellowship and is the one who acts upon and totally realizes the import of Pippin's palantir adventure. I cannot put it into words very well at the moment, but I think that Gandalf has an inkling of the cosmic will, the divine will, if you will, and he knows that it cannot be forced or even most times be completely aware of itself (thus Pippin's blind impulsiveness). Even he, the very wise, cannot see all ends, as he tells Frodo, so I think he sees the spark of one who acts in the moment, but always for the good and who, if guided (for certainly Gandalf guided Pippin!), could be put where he could do the most good.

Like mark12_30, I can see the thread of "being an instrument in God's hands" in both Frodo and Pippin (my two favorite characters, incidentally!), but the difference may be that Frodo is more personally aware of the impossibility of his quest and its deeper significance and effects, and he has knowledge of this "other world" that Pippin seems to float on top of. Perhaps it takes a "Fool of a Took" to truly follow the winds of Eru where they may take him. And Gandalf, in true Istari form, creates the surfaces on which he turns with the wind and slowly awakens.

I do like the idea that Pippin is like Bilbo that some of you have put forth! I didn't really think about it, but Gandalf played a similar role in their lives I think, although he gave Bilbo a shove out the door (so to speak) and simply a vote for approval to Elrond in Pippin's case, knowing that Tookishness would be a rough horse to ride, but that it could bring them galloping into some rich lands and unforeseen solutions to unforeseen problems...

On this tangent, I think that the whole quest is one of those things where no one really knows how it will be accomplished; after all, who could really know whether Frodo would just throw the thing in the Cracks of Doom? You can't. So you send Samwise and tell him not to leave Frodo alone! How could anyone have foreseen the way things played out--Pippin's sudden allegiance to Denethor in memory of the valiant and fallen Boromir--Merry's unsettling distress when Pippin is taken away and his solace in his great love for Rohan and Theoden, which culminated in the destruction of the Marshal of Mordor--the Witch King of Angmar! The threads are endless, intertwined and each followed lovingly to their conclusions (and beyond in the reader's minds). Hindsight is an author creating plot points to fit the story's needs, but serendipity even there will strike, and Tolkien certainly was taken by surprise when scenes presented themselves to him--was it Lorien that he didn't know about until it was presented to him? Ah, but I am off on too tangled a tangent. Forgive my rambling post, but Pippin will do that to me!

End note: I must say I really loved the idea of Pippin being "in-between" and I hadn't thought of it that way quite before. There is a concept in martial arts called Sanshin, acting in the moment, going with the flow, so to speak, and I think that Pippin's impulsiveness develops into this Sanshin, until at the Gate of Morannon, despite all his regrets and wish that Merry could be there with him on the bleak battlefield, he acts in the moment to save Beregond from the troll, killing the great troll in the process and laughing a little with his inner voice at the whole thing, death and all, even as it seems to be taking him (I have heard that Tolkien considered actually killing Pippin at this point--thank God he didn't!), and it become like a story--Bilbo's story, and time and space disappear. But again, I digress. Can anyone tell I have a thing for Pippin? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Cheers,
Lyta