Two statements game - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Fingolfin II · 03-06-2004, 03:55 AM

Basically the rules are that you say two statements and ask a question about them and the answer/s must be of people who are fairly closely related by blood or marriage.

That means no second- or third-cousins, etc. Great-great-great-great-grandfathers/uncles/aunts are acceptable, but try and keep them fairly closely related. Also, half-grand uncles etc. are acceptable because of Feanor, Fingolfin and Finarfin being related in this way.

Anyway, here goes:

1) He could see all, yet oft truth was from him hid.

AND

2) He is the bane of the Two Fathers.

Who are these people and how are they related?

Kath · 03-06-2004, 10:19 AM

This is very difficult and I'm a little confused.
Is it that the two answers have to be related through family ties or by association.
Apologies if this seems obvious!

Fingolfin II · 03-06-2004, 08:11 PM

Yeah, it is a bit confusing lol. Kath, you're right about familial ties or by association. So any guesses?

rutslegolas · 03-07-2004, 07:31 AM

denethor and ?

i dont know the other one

Gil-Galad · 03-07-2004, 12:42 PM

Denethor and the Balrog of Khazad-Dum

Fingolfin II · 03-07-2004, 09:56 PM

Nope, not Denethor and the Balrog of Khazad-dum, though they are correct I suppose in their own right. However, they aren't related. So here's a hint: they are father and son. The second one is *slightly* disputed, but it's still clear.

The Perky Ent · 03-07-2004, 09:58 PM

Denethor and Boromir?

Fingolfin II · 03-07-2004, 11:54 PM

Nope- think First Age characters.

Kath · 03-08-2004, 04:45 AM

Thanks for the explanation.
I will now reshow my stupidity in this guess.
Illuvatar and Morgoth

Gil-Galad · 03-08-2004, 08:07 AM

i think its Turgon and one of the sons

Miriel · 03-08-2004, 10:02 AM

Hurin and Turin?

Fingolfin II · 03-09-2004, 12:26 AM

Congrats, Miriel it is Hurin and Turin! Statement 1 is referring to Hurin being tortured by Morgoth in Angband and seeing all that's happening to his kin, except he doesn't see any of the good stuff that is happening, thus the truth is hidden from him.

Statement 2 is referring to Turin, the bane of the Two Fathers: He is the bane of Glaurung, the Father of Dragons, and Melkor, the Father of Evil. Next time plz justify your answer, but well done. Your shot.

Gil-Galad · 03-09-2004, 05:19 PM

May i ask how Turin is the bane of Melkor? they have never even met, let alone Melkor talking about him (nothing in book)

Fingolfin II · 03-09-2004, 11:23 PM

As I said, it is kind of disputed, but Mandos made a Prophecy about the Last Battle when Morgoth comes back through the Door of Night and is slain by Turin. It's in the Book of Lost Tales and The Shaping of Middle-Earth. Also, theres a reference to Dagor Dragorath in UT and are several references to the Last Battle in the Silmarillion.

Fingolfin II · 03-10-2004, 11:55 PM

Miriel- your turn.

Nilpaurion Felagund · 03-12-2004, 12:20 AM

I know...I'll shout.

Miriel!

Miriel · 03-12-2004, 02:09 PM

*jerks into wakefulness* Hrmmphh?

Oh yeah, sorry, forgot. *Sigh* ... it's fun to work it out but not so good trying to make one up...

Well, I'm awful at this sort of stuff, so be merciful.

Disfigurement within a fair outside was never preferred.

In last two years sees withdrawal of good follow rise of evil.

The Perky Ent · 03-12-2004, 05:42 PM

Eowyn and Theoden?

Miriel · 03-13-2004, 11:30 AM

Nope.

The Perky Ent · 03-13-2004, 11:34 AM

ARWEN AND ELROND?

Miriel · 03-13-2004, 11:57 AM

No.

And you'd probably be best to explain the answer, as I'll ask you to do so if you get it right.

Fingolfin II · 03-13-2004, 10:44 PM

Hints?

Miriel · 03-14-2004, 06:00 AM

Okay ...

'Disfigurement within a fair outside' is cryptic. All the rest is straight clues. And you're looking for one Third Ager, and one Third/Fourth Ager. And they're not Elves.

That'll do for now.

Kath · 03-15-2004, 03:08 PM

Is the first one Saruman?
Reason being he seems good but is in fact evil.

Arvedui III · 03-15-2004, 05:32 PM

Herm...dunno...are they Faramir and Denethor?

Denethor saw the rise of evil in his last two years and Faramir was fair on the inside and outside.

Miriel · 03-16-2004, 11:07 AM

Oooh ... very close, Arvedui. The first one is indeed Faramir. ('mar', which can be a noun meaning disfigurement or blemish, within the letters fa ir - a 'fair outside', and the 'never preferred' referring to his father's preference of Boromir.)

Denethor isn't the other one, though. And, hint: 'last two years' doesn't necessarily refer to the last two years of the person's life. Think what 'withdrawal of good' might refer to.

Gil-Galad · 03-16-2004, 03:20 PM

Faramir and Boromir?

Miriel · 03-16-2004, 03:23 PM

Nope.

Silmarien · 03-17-2004, 07:20 PM

Faramir And Eowyn. She's had two years of tending her king in growing fear under Grima.

Miriel · 03-18-2004, 11:38 AM

No. More hints?

Firefoot · 03-18-2004, 03:25 PM

Faramir and Finduilas?

Miriel · 03-19-2004, 11:58 AM

No ... okay, big hint ... the person you're looking for was a Steward of Gondor. 'Last two years' refers to the last two years of his rule.

So, now just consider 'withdrawal of good'. And check all the stewards somewhere near Faramir.

Gil-Galad · 03-19-2004, 04:38 PM

Faramir and Echthelion II?

Miriel · 03-20-2004, 07:15 AM

No.

Okay, I'm getting bored of this.

The Steward in question saw, in his last two years, Sauron's openly declaring himself in Mordor, and Saruman withdrawing to Isengard.

So who is it, and what's his relationship with Faramir?

Should be easy now.

Feanor of the Peredhil · 03-21-2004, 12:47 PM

I'm going to throw in a ballpark guess- We've already got Faramir, and I'm assuming the Steward in question is Gandalf (what with his statement to Denathor "did you not know" and all of that). The relationship is one of mutual love, but more as between a teacher and student than that of father and son. If I'm right, please allow someone else with more creativity than me ask the next.

Fea

Miriel · 03-21-2004, 01:31 PM

No ... not Gandalf ... an actual Steward of Gondor.

Come on guys! I've practically told you it...

Firefoot · 03-21-2004, 01:42 PM

It's Turgon. He is Faramir's great-grandfather.

Miriel · 03-21-2004, 01:55 PM

*cheers!!!!*

Correct.

Firefoot · 03-21-2004, 02:42 PM

Thanks Miriel! I love guessing these, but I hate writing them - oh well.

Fell Fire slain in Flame.

and

Cave Hewer dies defending friend.

Fingolfin II · 03-21-2004, 11:59 PM

Finrod and Maedhros? Finrod was the hewer of caves ('Felagund') and died to save his friend Beren, and Maedhros killed himself by throwing his body into a chasm filled with fire.

03-06-2004, 03:55 AM	#1
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	Two statements game Basically the rules are that you say two statements and ask a question about them and the answer/s must be of people who are fairly closely related by blood or marriage. That means no second- or third-cousins, etc. Great-great-great-great-grandfathers/uncles/aunts are acceptable, but try and keep them fairly closely related. Also, half-grand uncles etc. are acceptable because of Feanor, Fingolfin and Finarfin being related in this way. Anyway, here goes: 1) He could see all, yet oft truth was from him hid. AND 2) He is the bane of the Two Fathers. Who are these people and how are they related? __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

03-06-2004, 10:19 AM	#2
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	This is very difficult and I'm a little confused. Is it that the two answers have to be related through family ties or by association. Apologies if this seems obvious! __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

03-06-2004, 08:11 PM	#3
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	Yeah, it is a bit confusing lol. Kath, you're right about familial ties or by association. So any guesses? __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

03-07-2004, 07:31 AM	#4
rutslegolas Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: In Elven Lands of India Posts: 533	denethor and ? i dont know the other one __________________ If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with the bull - The Phantom.

03-07-2004, 12:42 PM	#5
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	Denethor and the Balrog of Khazad-Dum __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

03-07-2004, 09:56 PM	#6
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	Nope, not Denethor and the Balrog of Khazad-dum, though they are correct I suppose in their own right. However, they aren't related. So here's a hint: they are father and son. The second one is slightly disputed, but it's still clear. __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

03-07-2004, 09:58 PM	#7
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,297	Denethor and Boromir? __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

03-07-2004, 11:54 PM	#8
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	Nope- think First Age characters. __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

03-08-2004, 04:45 AM	#9
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	Thanks for the explanation. I will now reshow my stupidity in this guess. Illuvatar and Morgoth __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

03-08-2004, 08:07 AM	#10
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	i think its Turgon and one of the sons __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

03-08-2004, 10:02 AM	#11
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	Hurin and Turin? __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-09-2004, 12:26 AM	#12
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	Congrats, Miriel it is Hurin and Turin! Statement 1 is referring to Hurin being tortured by Morgoth in Angband and seeing all that's happening to his kin, except he doesn't see any of the good stuff that is happening, thus the truth is hidden from him. Statement 2 is referring to Turin, the bane of the Two Fathers: He is the bane of Glaurung, the Father of Dragons, and Melkor, the Father of Evil. Next time plz justify your answer, but well done. Your shot. __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

03-09-2004, 05:19 PM	#13
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	May i ask how Turin is the bane of Melkor? they have never even met, let alone Melkor talking about him (nothing in book) __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

03-09-2004, 11:23 PM	#14
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	As I said, it is kind of disputed, but Mandos made a Prophecy about the Last Battle when Morgoth comes back through the Door of Night and is slain by Turin. It's in the Book of Lost Tales and The Shaping of Middle-Earth. Also, theres a reference to Dagor Dragorath in UT and are several references to the Last Battle in the Silmarillion. __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

03-10-2004, 11:55 PM	#15
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	Miriel- your turn. __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

03-12-2004, 12:20 AM	#16
Nilpaurion Felagund Scion of The Faithful Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: The brink, where hope and despair are akin. [The Philippines] Posts: 5,312	*Should I go poke, or should I go bump?* I know...I'll shout. Miriel! __________________ フェンリス鴨 (Fenrisu Kamo) The plot, cut, defeated. I intend to copy this sig forever - so far so good...

03-12-2004, 02:09 PM	#17
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	jerks into wakefulness Hrmmphh? Oh yeah, sorry, forgot. Sigh ... it's fun to work it out but not so good trying to make one up... Well, I'm awful at this sort of stuff, so be merciful. Disfigurement within a fair outside was never preferred. In last two years sees withdrawal of good follow rise of evil. __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-12-2004, 05:42 PM	#18
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,297	Eowyn and Theoden? __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

03-13-2004, 11:30 AM	#19
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	Nope. __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-13-2004, 11:34 AM	#20
The Perky Ent Maniacal Mage Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Setting sail for Umbar, with Firefoot at my side! Posts: 3,297	ARWEN AND ELROND? __________________ 'But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark.'

03-13-2004, 11:57 AM	#21
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	No. And you'd probably be best to explain the answer, as I'll ask you to do so if you get it right. __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-13-2004, 10:44 PM	#22
Fingolfin II Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Where you want me to be Posts: 1,036	Hints? __________________ Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.

03-14-2004, 06:00 AM	#23
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	Okay ... 'Disfigurement within a fair outside' is cryptic. All the rest is straight clues. And you're looking for one Third Ager, and one Third/Fourth Ager. And they're not Elves. That'll do for now. __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-15-2004, 03:08 PM	#24
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	Is the first one Saruman? Reason being he seems good but is in fact evil. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

03-15-2004, 05:32 PM	#25
Arvedui III Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In Rohan, with Carolina on my mind Posts: 629	Herm...dunno...are they Faramir and Denethor? Denethor saw the rise of evil in his last two years and Faramir was fair on the inside and outside. __________________ I have no idea what you just said, but I'm inspired!

03-16-2004, 11:07 AM	#26
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	Oooh ... very close, Arvedui. The first one is indeed Faramir. ('mar', which can be a noun meaning disfigurement or blemish, within the letters fa ir - a 'fair outside', and the 'never preferred' referring to his father's preference of Boromir.) Denethor isn't the other one, though. And, hint: 'last two years' doesn't necessarily refer to the last two years of the person's life. Think what 'withdrawal of good' might refer to. __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-16-2004, 03:20 PM	#27
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	Faramir and Boromir? __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

03-16-2004, 03:23 PM	#28
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	Nope. __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-17-2004, 07:20 PM	#29
Silmarien Wight Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Lost but Found Posts: 199	Faramir And Eowyn. She's had two years of tending her king in growing fear under Grima. __________________ Though here at journeys end I lie in dakness buried deep, beyond all towers strong and high beyond all mountains steep, above all shadows rides the Sun and Stars forever dwell:I will not say the Day is done nor bid the Stars farewell!

03-18-2004, 11:38 AM	#30
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	No. More hints? __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-18-2004, 03:25 PM	#31
Firefoot Illusionary Holbytla Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 7,547	Faramir and Finduilas?

03-19-2004, 11:58 AM	#32
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	No ... okay, big hint ... the person you're looking for was a Steward of Gondor. 'Last two years' refers to the last two years of his rule. So, now just consider 'withdrawal of good'. And check all the stewards somewhere near Faramir. __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-19-2004, 04:38 PM	#33
Gil-Galad Psyche of Prince Immortal Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Above a Parapet Obvious exits are: North, South, and Dennis Posts: 4,734	Faramir and Echthelion II? __________________ Love doesn't blow up and get killed.

03-20-2004, 07:15 AM	#34
Miriel Wight Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Scotland Posts: 118	No. Okay, I'm getting bored of this. The Steward in question saw, in his last two years, Sauron's openly declaring himself in Mordor, and Saruman withdrawing to Isengard. So who is it, and what's his relationship with Faramir? Should be easy now. __________________ "The weight of this sad time we must obey, Speak what we feel, not what we ought to say." (Act V, Scene III - King Lear)

03-21-2004, 12:47 PM	#35
Feanor of the Peredhil La Belle Dame sans Merci Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: perpetual uncertainty Posts: 5,517	I'm going to throw in a ballpark guess- We've already got Faramir, and I'm assuming the Steward in question is Gandalf (what with his statement to Denathor "did you not know" and all of that). The relationship is one of mutual love, but more as between a teacher and student than that of father and son. If I'm right, please allow someone else with more creativity than me ask the next. Fea __________________ peace