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#1 | |
Spirit of Mist
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tol Eressea
Posts: 3,352
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Years ago, I promised myself that I would not participate any further in threads about Bombadil and Goldberry. I had said my views several times and no longer wished to repeat myself or engage in speculative and sometimes fanciful debate. I recognize that Bombadil is an intriguing subject to some. He is a jarring character. His demeanor is odd and he appears to fit better in a children's book than the more mature LoTR. Tolkien himself calls him an "enigma." But to me, he has always seemed easily explained, particularly once the Silmarillion was published.
I always look to internal consistency in the books in interpreting Middle Earth. So to me, it has appeared obvious that Bombadil and Goldberry are Maiar that have chosen a rustic and secluded life together. I will concede that there is no express statement in LoTR or the Silmarillion that establishes their nature. It is enough for me that they are creatures of inherent power and longevity, that they are familiar to Gandalf, and that they are not Elves or Men (or Dwarves, Orcs, etc.). Goldberry in particular seems easily explained; she is one of Uinen's people overseeing the rivers of Middle Earth. I recently began a re-read of Lost Tales. When I first read them, decades ago, I did not like them much but later developed an appreciation for these volumes. Yes, the writing is uneven, but it is sometimes excellent. Yes, they are more "fairy tale-ish." Yes, they include elements that are not consistent with later writings including some that are simply odd. Yet, I liked the concept of a Man finding his way onto the straight road and being instructed on Elvish history which had long since been forgotten in the great lands. For those who have some longevity on this site, some may recall that I wrote a series of interrelated short stories about Aelfwine and his visit to Tol Eressea, updated with characters from LoTR and the published Silmarillion. But, as a general rule, I did not look to Lost Tales as a source of anything resembling canonical information. However, during my latest re-read, I cam across something I had not noticed before. Because the following excerpt may provide previously undiscussed information that at least hints at the origins of Bombadil, I have decided to briefly set aside my personal boycott on the subject. The following quote is found in the chapter The Chaining of Melko (which itself includes some odd pieces including the capture of Morgoth via subterfuge). In this chapter. Meril is telling Aelfwine how it came to pass that the Valar took up their dwelling in Eldamar while Morgoth remained in Middle Earth and Orome and Yavanna's travels to and concerns about the great lands. Quote:
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Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land. |
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#2 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,035
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I saw the title, and at first shuddered.
![]() I have a similar view on Bombadil and Goldberry. I see a parallel between them and Ungoliant. Quote:
Perhaps Bombadil too originally came to Arda in the service of a Vala, but decided he'd rather settle down with a 'kindred spirit' and do his own thing.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#3 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 18
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I can understand that.
I mean, after you've worked hard to help create a beautiful world wouldn't you want to go and enjoy it for a while? |
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#4 |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,857
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You realise this means that Tom Bombadil's songs are the closest thing we have to the Music of the Ainur.
No, but seriously! The only confirmed Ainu who sings and whose songs are actually written down is Gandalf, and he seems to be passing on other people's poems ('Tall ships and tall kings', at least; 'In Dwimordene, in Lorien' may be original to him). Oh, and Sauron, assuming you think the Ring inscription was meant to be poetic. But other than them? It's Bombadil and Goldberry. We know for certain that their songs are original to them, and notably, Tom repeatedly uses his music to enact changes in the world - putting Old Man Willow to sleep, and razing the Barrow. (... I've just noticed something amazing, but that's for another thread.) If Tom is a Maia, then the fact that he uses song as a source of power ties directly back to the Ainulindale. He's still doing exactly what he did in the Timeless Halls, and - given his unchanging nature - I think we have to accept that he's doing it in the exact same way. Unless you view Tom as one of those thrown off by Melkor's dischord, that means we also have to accept that part of Iluvatar's plan for creation was for at least one of his Ainur to sing about himself in the third person and comment on his fashion choices. hS |
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#5 | ||||
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Maryland, United States
Posts: 22
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I have a similar take on Bombadil, though I don't think he's necessarily a Maia. That's certainly one possibility: the Valaquenta is explicit that there were Maiar in Middle-earth, and implies that this was a majority ("few have names in any of the tongues of the Children of Ilúvatar; for though it is otherwise in Aman, in Middle-earth the Maiar have seldom appeared in form visible to Elves and Men"). But he could be an Ainu or some other sort of spirit who was not one of the Maiar. To again quote from the Valaquenta:
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To tie things back to Bombadil, some people interpret his statement that he was "was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn.... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless – before the Dark Lord came from Outside" to mean that he must have predated the arrival of the Ainur (including Melkor). However, landmasses, weather systems, and flora did not yet exist when the Ainur arrived: "when the Valar entered into Eä they were at first astounded and at a loss, for it was as if naught was yet made which they had seen in vision, and all was but on point to begin and yet unshaped, and it was dark" (TS, Ainulindalë). Also, Melkor wasn't a Dark Lord yet, and I think Bombadil was almost certainly referring to Melkor's return to Arda, minions in tow, as described in the chapter "Of the Beginning of Days". |
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#6 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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@Eldorion
Nice post! I think the distinction between Maiar and other spirits is underappreciated. I do recall an older discussion that addressed it, but you provide some nice additional support from the texts! |
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#7 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Maryland, United States
Posts: 22
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Thanks obloquy! I can't say I've ever seen that thread before (I was eight years old in November 2002) but you wrote a very interesting OP there!
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