the "devilry" at helms deep ? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

gayare'dion · 06-13-2002, 08:40 PM

i would wish their would be a better image for this "devilry" at the battle at helms deep. as far as i can tell, its some kind of siege weapon , that fires flames. heres probobly the best quote on it" 'but orcs have brought a devilry from orthanc,'said aragorn. 'they have a blasting fire, and with it they took the wall "do you think peter jackson will have a beast such as a dragon or drake, portraying this ? or more likely some type of mechanical flame weapon ? or just leave it out completely ? but it does include throughout the chapter, details in explosions, and such, wich i think it will be most likely it will be added in the TTT[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: gayare'dion ]

Child of the 7th Age · 06-13-2002, 09:15 PM

I think he'll definitely go for it. This is a very "visual" thing which should come over strongly in a movie. Plus, unlike Tom Bombadil, it won't add any extra time to the action scenes s can easily be fitted in.My guess is that he'll skip the dragons and go for some sort of mechanized flame thrower.sharon, the 7th age hobbit

Kuruharan · 06-13-2002, 09:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>do you think peter jackson will have a beast such as a dragon or drake, portraying this ? or more likely some type of mechanical flame weapon ? or just leave it out completely ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Whatever happens he won't skip it. It's an opportunity for flashy effects and explosions. I think it will be some type of mechanical construction, we may even see it being built.

Evenstar1 · 06-13-2002, 09:26 PM

My impression from the quote (I don't have the book handy to reference that section right now) is that JRRT was referring to a cannon-like object: "a blasting fire" being Tolkien's way of saying "firepower," as in "artillery." (That makes more sense to me, given Tolkien's periphery of World Wars I & II.)

gayare'dion · 06-14-2002, 11:15 AM

it probobly is a cannon like object, but i think that peter jackson will just portray it as a mechanical flame type of weapon

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-14-2002, 02:25 PM

Yeah, I forgot about that, but I'm looking forward to see how they pull it off. I hope they still have Gimli overseeing the rebuilding of the wall.

06-14-2002, 03:18 PM

I had totally forgot about that part in the book. But that would add alot and be extremely exciting. I can't wait. I doubt that PJ would miss out on something like that. The TT will be fantastical! YAY.

Emni Windrunner · 06-14-2002, 08:17 PM

I can't see PJ leaving out a non-time-consuming detail like that. He left in the stone trolls and the horse-shaped waves in the river, after all, and they make no sense to people who haven't read the books. Something like this would make sense to everyone. I always thought it was something like a catapult hurling fireballs, but I could be wrong. It'll be interesting to see how they render it onscreen. As long as we're talking about Helm's Deep, though...do you think they'll leave in Gimli and Legolas' Orc-slaying game? Call me weird if it strikes you that way, but that's one of my favorite parts of Helm's Deep (which is, itself, my favorite or at most second favorite part of the whole trilogy).

Kuruharan · 06-14-2002, 10:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I always thought it was something like a catapult hurling fireballs, but I could be wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, actually, given the context of the time that is more accurate than a cannon of some sort.I just think it will be shown as some type of cannon because it seems more in character, if you understand me.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-15-2002, 01:42 PM

Emni, you're not alone in loving the orc-slaying game.

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 06-15-2002, 02:02 PM

If I was PJ, I would make the Devilry some big gigantic huge twisted metal monster machine that killed relentlessly an dwas extremly intimadating.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-16-2002, 12:40 PM

I'd probably make some huge flamethrower/cannon.

gayare'dion · 06-16-2002, 08:30 PM

what about those giant archer crosbow siege weapons ? what if they had a flaming arrow in it. what are those things called anyways ? well whatever it is its like a giant crossbow on wheels, or does it even have wheels ? well they usually have it on some type of platform. ok im confusging myself so ill just shut up now.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-17-2002, 07:43 AM

It's called a ballista. And they do have wheels. Romans invented them.

gayare'dion · 06-18-2002, 02:19 PM

ballista. sounds like the root for ballistics. thats great. im glad i know what they are now i think the whole mechanical siege flamethrower is great, and cool because its so original, but somewhat believable. i think i heard on the history channel once, something about the greeks having some type of flame streaming weapon, on their ships. i might have just been tired though, but it sounds cool ::nods::

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-18-2002, 03:36 PM

I think it is the root for ballistics. Also there are flaming ballistas in the opening battle of Gladiator.

gayare'dion · 06-19-2002, 09:57 AM

yeah i was thinking about that too, and they also launched large clay containers of oil or some type of flamable substance, out of catapolts.its almost like a giant molotof.

Mornie Alantie · 06-19-2002, 11:21 AM

i dont think it will be a catapult cause he'll probably use them in the battle of pellanor fields. But wouldn't it be Hilarious if it was a huge slick black car where the roof splits and a high tec cannon pops up(something you'd see on MIB or somethin') and balsted the walls. Boy what a movie.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-19-2002, 03:22 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But wouldn't it be Hilarious if it was a huge slick black car where the roof splits and a high tec cannon pops up(something you'd see on MIB or somethin') and balsted the walls. Boy what a movie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, that would be sort of funny. MIB does rock

The Fifth · 06-19-2002, 09:42 PM

I imagine that there will be catapults with fireballs on them, being launched.

Daniel Telcontar · 06-20-2002, 11:31 AM

Out-of-topic: MIB are a cool bunch. To a party, I memorized the song and impersonated Will Smith with a friend. To the point: I always thought of gunpowder when reading about Helm's Deep, and the chinese had fireworks a long time. But if not, I would guess at some fire-breathing device, which could be fed with oil.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-20-2002, 01:13 PM

I never even thought about oil. That would fit the persona of orcs. You know, tearing up the environment.

gayare'dion · 06-21-2002, 07:24 PM

oil would be nice, but could the weapon be some type of magical contraption ?[ June 21, 2002: Message edited by: gayare'dion ]

06-13-2002, 08:40 PM	#1
gayare'dion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 75	the "devilry" at helms deep ? i would wish their would be a better image for this "devilry" at the battle at helms deep. as far as i can tell, its some kind of siege weapon , that fires flames. heres probobly the best quote on it<P>" 'but orcs have brought a devilry from orthanc,'said aragorn. 'they have a blasting fire, and with it they took the wall "<P>do you think peter jackson will have a beast such as a dragon or drake, portraying this ? or more likely some type of mechanical flame weapon ? or just leave it out completely ?<BR>but it does include throughout the chapter, details in explosions, and such, wich i think it will be most likely it will be added in the TTT<p>[ June 13, 2002: Message edited by: gayare'dion ] __________________ i like pants!

06-13-2002, 09:15 PM	#2
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	I think he'll definitely go for it. This is a very "visual" thing which should come over strongly in a movie. Plus, unlike Tom Bombadil, it won't add any extra time to the action scenes s can easily be fitted in.<P>My guess is that he'll skip the dragons and go for some sort of mechanized flame thrower.<P>sharon, the 7th age hobbit __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

06-13-2002, 09:17 PM	#3
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>do you think peter jackson will have a beast such as a dragon or drake, portraying this ? or more likely some type of mechanical flame weapon ? or just leave it out completely ?<BR> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Whatever happens he won't skip it. It's an opportunity for flashy effects and explosions. I think it will be some type of mechanical construction, we may even see it being built. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

06-13-2002, 09:26 PM	#4
Evenstar1 Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Colorado (just east of the Misty Mts.) Posts: 111	My impression from the quote (I don't have the book handy to reference that section right now) is that JRRT was referring to a cannon-like object: "a blasting fire" being Tolkien's way of saying "firepower," as in "artillery." (That makes more sense to me, given Tolkien's periphery of World Wars I & II.) __________________ - Eve

06-14-2002, 11:15 AM	#5
gayare'dion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 75	it probobly is a cannon like object, but i think that peter jackson will just portray it as a mechanical flame type of weapon __________________ i like pants!

06-14-2002, 02:25 PM	#6
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	Yeah, I forgot about that, but I'm looking forward to see how they pull it off. I hope they still have Gimli overseeing the rebuilding of the wall. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-14-2002, 03:18 PM	#7
Belbo Guest Posts: n/a	I had totally forgot about that part in the book. But that would add alot and be extremely exciting. I can't wait. I doubt that PJ would miss out on something like that. <P><BR>The TT will be fantastical! YAY.

06-14-2002, 08:17 PM	#8
Emni Windrunner Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Nallennia Posts: 52	I can't see PJ leaving out a non-time-consuming detail like that. He left in the stone trolls and the horse-shaped waves in the river, after all, and they make no sense to people who haven't read the books. Something like this would make sense to everyone. I always thought it was something like a catapult hurling fireballs, but I could be wrong. It'll be interesting to see how they render it onscreen.<BR>As long as we're talking about Helm's Deep, though...do you think they'll leave in Gimli and Legolas' Orc-slaying game? Call me weird if it strikes you that way, but that's one of my favorite parts of Helm's Deep (which is, itself, my favorite or at most second favorite part of the whole trilogy). __________________ Marindia Elyais Lya Kandiro Elia Kandro Eilidh Andara Iliana Emnilia

06-14-2002, 10:26 PM	#9
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>I always thought it was something like a catapult hurling fireballs, but I could be wrong. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, actually, given the context of the time that is more accurate than a cannon of some sort.<P>I just think it will be shown as some type of cannon because it seems more in character, if you understand me. __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

06-15-2002, 01:42 PM	#10
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	Emni, you're not alone in loving the orc-slaying game. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-15-2002, 02:02 PM	#11
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	If I was PJ, I would make the Devilry some big gigantic huge twisted metal monster machine that killed relentlessly an dwas extremly intimadating. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

06-16-2002, 12:40 PM	#12
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I'd probably make some huge flamethrower/cannon. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-16-2002, 08:30 PM	#13
gayare'dion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 75	what about those giant archer crosbow siege weapons ? what if they had a flaming arrow in it. what are those things called anyways ?<BR>well whatever it is its like a giant crossbow on wheels, or does it even have wheels ? well they usually have it on some type of platform. <BR> ok im confusging myself so ill just shut up now. __________________ i like pants!

06-17-2002, 07:43 AM	#14
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	It's called a ballista. And they do have wheels. Romans invented them. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-18-2002, 02:19 PM	#15
gayare'dion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 75	ballista. sounds like the root for ballistics. thats great. im glad i know what they are now <BR> i think the whole mechanical siege flamethrower is great, and cool because its so original, but somewhat believable. i think i heard on the history channel once, something about the greeks having some type of flame streaming weapon, on their ships. i might have just been tired though, but it sounds cool ::nods:: __________________ i like pants!

06-18-2002, 03:36 PM	#16
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I think it is the root for ballistics. Also there are flaming ballistas in the opening battle of Gladiator. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-19-2002, 09:57 AM	#17
gayare'dion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 75	yeah i was thinking about that too, and they also launched large clay containers of oil or some type of flamable substance, out of catapolts.its almost like a giant molotof. __________________ i like pants!

06-19-2002, 11:21 AM	#18
Mornie Alantie Wight Join Date: May 2002 Location: Somewhere above earth cause people say i should come down to it Posts: 226	i dont think it will be a catapult cause he'll probably use them in the battle of pellanor fields. But wouldn't it be Hilarious if it was a huge slick black car where the roof splits and a high tec cannon pops up(something you'd see on MIB or somethin') and balsted the walls. Boy what a movie. __________________ Instead of pepper spray, you pack a glass bottle and scream "Aiya Earendil Elenion Ancalima!!!" at muggers.

06-19-2002, 03:22 PM	#19
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> But wouldn't it be Hilarious if it was a huge slick black car where the roof splits and a high tec cannon pops up(something you'd see on MIB or somethin') and balsted the walls. Boy what a movie.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok, that would be sort of funny. MIB does rock __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-19-2002, 09:42 PM	#20
The Fifth Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: Mordor Posts: 427	I imagine that there will be catapults with fireballs on them, being launched. __________________ - Ringwraith #5, Servant of the Eye

06-20-2002, 11:31 AM	#21
Daniel Telcontar Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: May 2002 Location: Denmark Posts: 713	Out-of-topic: MIB are a cool bunch. To a party, I memorized the song and impersonated Will Smith with a friend. <P>To the point: I always thought of gunpowder when reading about Helm's Deep, and the chinese had fireworks a long time. But if not, I would guess at some fire-breathing device, which could be fed with oil. __________________ Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer

06-20-2002, 01:13 PM	#22
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	I never even thought about oil. That would fit the persona of orcs. You know, tearing up the environment. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-21-2002, 07:24 PM	#23
gayare'dion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: pennsylvania Posts: 75	oil would be nice, but could the weapon be some type of magical contraption ?<p>[ June 21, 2002: Message edited by: gayare'dion ] __________________ i like pants!