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#1 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Hobbit delayed by a year?
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...ow/3861879.cms
Credit Crunch?? Waiting till the 3D technology is up to scratch (if the rumours are correct)? PJ et al too busy on other stuff? Creative differences??
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Gordon's alive!
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#2 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Actually, I posted that - but as its not 'controversial'
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#3 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,506
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One wonders about the whole Smeagol/Gollum parallel in these Davem/Lalwende posts. Yes, we wonders, precious.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#4 | |
Pilgrim Soul
Join Date: May 2004
Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle...
Posts: 9,451
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Vaunting ambition?
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As the Irish say when giving directions "If I were going there, I wouldn't start from here" . Was that lawsuit finally settled?
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“But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.”
Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace |
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#5 |
Shade of Carn Dűm
Join Date: May 2003
Location: my TARDIS!
Posts: 288
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Wooooah. I mean... woah.
....more time to get in on it; kekeke. (shifty eyes) But seriously, that's... quite a delay. I know this may sound blasphemous, but one wonders if all the issues are really well worth the agitation & postponement. :\ |
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#6 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Given PJs "liberties", especially with TTT and ROTK,
I wouldn't be too disappointed if TH results like the FOTR movie, and the bridge movie isn't quite as bad as the second and third movies with their "liberal" interpretations/additions.
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#7 |
Playful Ghoul
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,251
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Nay, folks, good or ill, tis not true.
TheOneRing.net has it on good authority (from the director himself) that there is no delay. This rumour is a rumour and naught else.
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"Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green." |
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#8 |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,743
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This is intriguing news indeed. I saw the item late last night and have been waiting for it to break in the trades all day. So far it hasn't, which makes me wonder how accurate it is. Then again, we're on the cusp of the holidays, so it could be they're just running with skeleton crews at the trades at this point.
I would be surprised if the delay were the result of "creative differences". Once a movie starts rolling down the tracks, there aren't many people involved with it who are not expendable and can't be replaced within a few days. Still, I do note with interest that I keep seeing GDT's name pop up in association with new projects. One is even mentioned in today's trades, a project that he will script with Chris McQuarrie for Tom Cruise to star in. If memory serves, another one that's he supposed to be involved with is a trilogy of vampire novels. The guy must be booked solid through about 2020. I hadn't heard anything about 3D technology, but that story might have some merit. James Cameron is, I think, very close to starting on a new big-budget sci-fi film that is supposed to use cutting edge 3D tech that he's no doubt developing in-house. I guess it's possible that they'd wait for it, but if so it's probably only one factor. I'd speculate that the other would be a feeling that the script isn't ready to get into production and hit the release window they're looking at, so better to push it and make sure that everyone's happy with it. It'll be interesting to watch this story develop. |
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#9 |
Playful Ghoul
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,251
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Sorry, if I had posted a couple minutes earlier I could have saved you the speculation.
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"Hope and memory shall live still in some hidden valley where the grass is green." |
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#10 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin
Posts: 733
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What about casting? They have to have all of the roles decided by now. I just don't understand all of the secrecy about who is going to portray whom.
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Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness. |
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#11 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
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Well, because Warner Brothers is now in charge, there are some actors that are still contractually tied to other studios until the end of 2008; therefore, the announcements of Hobbit appearances by Jim Carrey, Mike Meyers, Will Smith and Lindsey Lohan will have to wait until the new year.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#12 |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,743
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#13 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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At TheOneRing.net they don't seem to agree with this rumor.
Quote:
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#14 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Ok, let's see how true this one is...
Disney pulls out the Narnia franchise
http://www.reuters.com/article/enter...4BN0M520081224 Quote:
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“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 12-24-2008 at 02:44 AM. |
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#15 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
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Delaying The Hobbit film until 2012 makes perfect sense. I believe either the Aztec or Mayan world calendar indicates that 2012 is the end of the world; therefore, between the Aztec calendar and the Mexican Del Toro, we have a perfect storm in an apocalyptic sense.
Just think, you can have an oblivion party right at the theater: "It's the end of the world as we know it, But the Hobbit's fine..."
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#16 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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Is it just coincidence that those who seem to take the most pleasure in hoping for a delay of the next Middle-earth films are also those who did not like the last three?
just asking.... there is are too much money to be made here for these films not to come to pass. |
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#17 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
As far as successful franchises go, I suspect everyone 'in the know' would have included Narnia after the performance of LWW, alongside LotR.... EDIT Let's face it - if TH was a stand alone work, without the LotR connection, no studio would touch it at the moment - a movie about a midget who gets dragged off by a wizard & thirteen Dwarves & not a single female character in the whole story. And I suspect that without a major re-write & the introduction of some familiar faces it won't do the business. It's not been picked up for what it is in its own right, but purely as a way of getting LotR movie fans back into the cinemas - & most of them have a very clear about the kind of movie they want to see - & that's not the story Tolkien wrote...
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“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 12-28-2008 at 05:07 PM. |
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#18 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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I think they would love to do the Hobbit-movie just because of the money it would produce them. It's just that in this "post credit-crunch" -world no one is willing to invest anything on anything that doesn't materialise itself in a day or two. Let's forget the quartal economy: the truth of the financial markets is day by day now. So nothing that takes time gets invested in.
And that to be sure is the problem of our modern capitalism. The quartal economy was a bad thing but this Day-to-Day economy is even worse. So what happens to any project where you can't cash yourself out within a day? So if it was that the oil-firms were reluctant to invest in new refineries a year ago now the film companies are afraid to invest in movies. Both make weekly/quartal losses for future gains but in this climate no one wishes to take the risk as the investers are nervous for any signs of spending instead of gaining immediately... ![]() ![]()
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Upon the hearth the fire is red Beneath the roof there is a bed; But not yet weary are our feet... |
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#19 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I'm rather curious why Disney turned down Narnia movies, since by the
records below it seems that the movie more then covered production costs U.S. domestically and more then doubled expenses (including worldwide) with PC. And this doesn't seem to include other revenue sources (books, dvds, cable tv rights, etc.). Why wouldn't further films also be good revenue sources? The Chronicles of Narnia: Prince Caspian - Box Office Data, Movie ...Total US Gross, $141,621,490. International Gross, $277,868,796. Worldwide Gross, $419,490,286 =================================== The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe Domestic: $291,710,957 39.2% Foreign: $453,300,315 60.8% Worldwide: $745,011,272 ===================================
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#20 |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,743
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Hey Tuor. The reason is that comparing raw B.O. numbers vs. productions costs leaves out a lot of variables. For instance, take that $419M B.O. and cut it nearly in half to account for the split between the studios and exhibitors and foreign distribution arms. Also deduct the money paid out to gross profit participants.
Then add to the ~$200M in production costs a figure that could very well exceed $100M worldwide in marketing costs (though some of that may be shared by foreign distribution partners). Also add in the expense of things like striking several thousand prints for exhibition in theaters, shipping those prints around the world, and other advertising like posters and whatnot... You can see why some of these tentpole pictures become a gamble that you'll get close enough to breaking even from box office to make all the other stuff like DVD sales, cable and network licensing, rentals, etc. worth the investment over the long haul. With expenses creeping up and box office heading steeply south, it's not that big of a surprise that Disney opted out. |
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#21 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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All of which is why a 'faithful' (or anything even close to it) adaptation of The Hobbit is out of the question at this time. Putting the story as it is on screen would be to guarantee a bomb - even Tolkien disliked the 'twee' nature of the early part of the story - hence his (failed) attempt in 1960 to rewrite it 'in the style' of LotR.
What I've found most interesting over the last few years as regards the TH movie is how few people actually want to see it - to see Tolkien's story on screen that is. Since it was first discussed by movie fans the focus has always seemed to be on how characters like Aragorn, Arwen & Legolas could be included (or at the least 'Orlando Bloom could play Thranduil, & John Rhys Davies Thorin' etc) how the White Council's assault on Dol Guldur could be integrated into the storyline, etc. Once it was announced that the first movie would be a straight adaptation of the book the focus seemed to shift entirely to the second movie - which could include all those things. In fact, it seems like many movie fans are looking forward more to the second movie than to the first. I'm sure Warners is looking very carefully at what the fans want to see - & what the fans want to see is all the old gang back 'hunting some Orc'. What they don't want to see is a story set sort of in the same world, but with, in the main, different (entirely male) characters. For all the studios profit is the bottom line, particularly at the moment, & they are going to look very carefully at what kind of Hobbit movie is going to bring in the biggest returns. I don't think that a 'faithful' adaptation of TH would bring in as much as the second movie that's being proposed (which will use many of the LotR characters/settings). The question is will Warners decide to put that movie at risk by putting out a faithful version of TH first? http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hi...n-treader.aspx http://www.actressarchives.com/news.php?id=13929 Quote:
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“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 12-29-2008 at 03:57 AM. |
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#22 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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If you want "faithful" you film each page of the actual book with the camera focused tightly on the text and switch pages every minute to give the time for the audience to read. Anything else changes something.
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#23 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
That's my reason for thinking that the proposed Hobbit sequel/LotR prequel movie, with its focus on Aragorn's hunt for Gollum & the White Council's assault on Dol Guldur is actually the one that audiences want to see, rather than an adaptation of Bilbo's journey - well, unless the White Council stuff can be added into TH itself (which is not the current plan). TH & sequel will cost a LOT of money & I'm fairly certain that Warners will make sure that the priority will be to give the audience what they want, & that faithfulness to the source will be even further down the list than it was to PJ & New Line. In other words I'd expect to see far less of Tolkien in these movies than we did in LotR. |
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#24 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin
Posts: 733
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Quote:
I, for one, look forward to seeing the scene with the three cockney trolls.
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Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness. Last edited by Andsigil; 12-29-2008 at 12:30 PM. |
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#25 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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Once you accept the fact that one medium - a film - is not another medium - a book - its all an individual judgment that means nothing in the grand scheme of things. Will the public embrace it through the purchasing of tickets? That is the only question that gets a film made.
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#26 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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#27 |
shadow of a doubt
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Back on the streets
Posts: 1,125
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I disagree that a faithful adaptation would do poorly in the box officee. A fairly faithful adaptation mind you: I don't expect to see the Goblins sing and dance to a show tune in the middle of a chase. The Hobbit's storyline is imo a better fit for the big screen than LotR, with plenty of scenes that would be great straight from the book. It's an adventure-story with plenty of action and thrills, but also lots of humour. Andsigil mentioned the cockney trolls who are hilarious but hopefully pretty scary too. There is also plenty of Dwarf comedy, and this time no-one can complain it isn't in the book in the first place. Can't wait for all the Bombur fat-jokes.
Sure there are drawback to a faithful adaptation. No love-affairs, few female characters, and few familiar LotR faces. Gollum and Gandalf is in of course, and they are enough I'd say, although I expect to see cameos from Legolas, Aragorn and Arwen too. But there are drawbacks to a very loose adaptation too. The Hobbit is a famous book, and if critics perceive that the film-makers have taken too many liberties with it, the reviews might suffer as a result, and poor reviews could definitely hurt financially. But it's all a matter of perspective I suppose. I believe that LotR is regarded as a faithful adaptation of the book by the majority, an opinion not shared by most on this board.
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#28 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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From Skip comment above:
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their making some of the dwarves female? On a less scary, but pushing the envelope, how about having Tom Bombadil and Goldberry saving them from the trolls? Quote:
decision to have Zena Arwen (although poor Glorfindel missed his one big scene ![]() ![]() In TH might they bring in Galadriel to share Elrond's scene and perhaps have KB to some general voice over throughout the movie?
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#29 | ||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Another take here http://www.joblo.com/cmon-hollywood-189
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TH is being looked at to do the same business as each of the LotR movies - as with Prince Caspian a moderate, or even a 'decent' profit will not be enough to guarantee the second movie being released - even if they complete principal photography on it the cost of completing it, adding the effects, music, all the post-production stuff, not to mention the marketing/publicity, will make them think twice if TH doesn't blow the Box Office apart. Let's face it, when the battle was begun to get TH made, when the go ahead was given & things began to get underway, fantasy was the genre to be involved in & TH was the Jewel in the Crown. Now it looks like fantasy is about as popular as the Western - & how many studios would be looking to put up $200+ million on a cowboy pic at the moment? |
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#30 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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This dirge for the fantasy film genre overlooks the success of Pan's Laybrinth.
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#31 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Yes, but....Pan's Labyrinth cost $19m & has grossed $83,258,226 to date.
http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...slabyrinth.htm Good return, but not on the LotR scale, or what would be expected of TH. If TH could be done on the same scale, with the same budget & if the same profit was acceptable to the studios it would be a different matter. However, I suspect that Warner would like to see something along the lines of RotK http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/...noftheking.htm a $94m budget producing a $1,119,110,941 gross ... |
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#32 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
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Hmmm...I have a gut feeling that The Hobbit will do just as well as LotR, whatever the domestic concern for the fantasy movie genre. Perhaps the wisest thing that was done was keeping Peter Jackson on as producer, but getting Del Toro as director. This brings in the Hellboy/Pan's Labyrinth coterie of DT devotees, as well as maintain the Frodo freaks and Lego-lusters from PJ's movies. There's a whole legion of fans of the movies who never even read the books (or are incapable of reading at all, for that matter), and then there are bitter old curmudgeons like me who had real issues with the LotR movies, but will go and see TH anyway, and then bitch about it later.
It'll do fine.
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#33 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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I suspect that in the end, HOBBIT will be a bit more serious than some here would like.... it will be a bit more action oriented than some here would like ... it will have far less of the peculiar JRRT humor than some here would like ... and it will be devoid of the many songs that so many here would like.
And I suspect that it will look far too much like a LOTR film - Middle-Earth Part IV (or I) than many here will like. And it will make scads of money, be very well recieved by the general public and set up the other move quite nicely thank you. Trends - be they fantasy films or any other - do not apply here. What does apply is that the LOTR films were a huge success by almost any scale of measurement and most of that public is still around ready to purchase yet again. In fact, it is well that no other big fantasy film has stolen the spotlight from Middle-earth making the hunger for it only sharper over the intervening years. We will get Ian McKellan as Gandalf again. We will get Gollum again. We get hobbits and dwarves and elves and all will be right with the world as long as that world contains the Shire and Rivendell and a few other spots. If it has enough to be familiar and make people feel confortable, then that is all that is needed. Jackson as producer will give it enough continuinity to make it acceptable to the film fans who identify him with the franchise. And franchise it is. Del Toro brings his own street cred and abilities and it will give the film enough of a new look to avoid sequelitis. Have faith. |
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#34 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Personally, I'm gonna wait & see.... |
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#35 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 903
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from davem
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To this day I think one of the reasons CASPIAN had lesser monies than the first in the series is that the first NARNIA movie cashed in on positive LOTR fever. A portion of those people who bought tickets left the theater unsatisfied and did not go back for CASPIAN - even though many said it was a better and more adult film. Obviously, anything can still happen. But if I could buy stock in the two Middle-earth films, I would gladly do so. Its as close to a sure thing as there is in the business of expensive film making. |
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#36 | ||
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
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The TH movie (& sequel) will be as successful as it is close to the LotR movies - which will mean being quite far from the original book - & that's what I've been arguing for a good while. Almost no-one seems to want to see Tolkien's original story on screen - what they want is 'another LotR movie' & would thus prefer to see the proposed second movie,which will include many of the LotR characters, than Tolkien's story, which will not.
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EDIT http://www.startribune.com/entertain...D3aPc:_Yyc:aUU Quote:
(*What next - "The depictions of killing contained in this film are based solely on artistic consideration and are not intended to promote shooting people. No gun manufacturers paid for product placement"?
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“Everything was an object. If you killed a dwarf you could use it as a weapon – it was no different to other large heavy objects." Last edited by davem; 01-01-2009 at 12:11 PM. |
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#37 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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Wasn't it Bertrand Russell who suggested that people resort to faith only when logic or evidence fails?
Frankly, I'll reserve my faith for a more reliable object, as I'm not sure what recompense PJ can offer me or what awakening would be possible from his works.
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#38 | ||
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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#39 | ||
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
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#40 | |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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