**Spoiler Warning** Rings of Power S2E5 - 'Halls of Stone

[Oddwen]

Don't worry Durin, that foundation wall is pretty compromised already.


Narvi and Celebrimbor buddy smith movie when?????


"I encouraged you to keep it short." Dwarf joke hahaa



Oooo, seeds of dissent between Celebrimbor and Annatar? (Have they even mentioned kingdoms of men besides Numenor yet?)


Also, Annatar looks like he's going to kill anyone who pats his arm.



Oh he's getting stabbed in the...yep, right in the back. Gee, Elendil keeps losing sons and son-figures.



Gaslight, Gatekeep, Gorgoroth.



The Last Alliance already?

[Formendacil]

Am I... approaching caught up? That seems like more of a feat this season than last. Still, I'm enjoying myself enough to keep up, just not enough to, like, say it's truly good.

1. Apparently, they said Eregion not Pelargír last time. At least that makes more sense--thank you, Previously On.
2. Oh, that was bad CGI zooming out from the blue gem--at least, I thought so!
3. Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone...
4. Narvi as the senior advisor to Durin (the "delvemaster") intrigues me. When do he and Celembrimbor meet? Are we going to get the bromance you know all the fans want? How will that work with this serious, staid Narvi?
5. Honestly, the father/son Durin dynamic is pretty good: it makes me think of the Thrór/Thráin/Thorin dynamic.
6. Well, that Ring does seem to make you a bit obsolete, Dísa. Is this why there's none of this mountain-divining singing going on in the Third Age.
7. Oh, there's the meeting I wanted.
8. Unveiling the Doors of Durin away from the walls of Moria is another odd dislocation. Is it to avoid an on-scene location? To hide the fact they don't know how to make it look the same place yet different? Narrative compression (or laziness)?
9. Annatar, you're moody tonight
10. No, don't remind me of Númenor in Annatar's context! We were robbed of Tar-Minastír's eucatastrophic appearance (which started Sauron's fear of the Númenóreans), and were robbed of see Númenor in its prefallen glory.
11. Nine really is a lot, if you think about it. So many Rings for the non-Elves, and only three for the Elves. Why?
12. Pharazôn should have been Gimilkhâd. The actor is good, but this should all be backstory. Pharazân the father just doesn't click for me--part of the whole POINT of Pharazôn is that he's childless: he's the sterile end of the dynasty, as well as a usurper. He's fruitless. (To be fair: the scene did nod a bit that way about him wanting "more") --but imagine if this were Gimilkhâd and we were seeing how Pharazôn came about.
13. Oh, thank God, you're done with that armour, Elendil! Please don't wear it again!
14. Okay, Eärien is a villain. I wonder if she gets a chance to redeem herself ere the end or if she's just a villain.
15. The stripping the Faithful of rank and the spying on each other does have a strong King's Men vs. the Faithful dynamic, even if the logistics are somewhat unclear.
16. Et tu Pharazôn--gazing into the palantír?
17. Apparently, the theme this episode seems to be aimless uncertainty.
18. Ring tribute--that's a good interpretation if each Ring being the foundation of a hoard, if a bit heavy-handed
19. Whatever you've stumbled on can't be good, Dísa--is it the Watcher in the Water?
20. Yup
21. Why Aulë? Oh yeah--Mahal is not in the Appendices.
22. Gonna tax the other kings too, Durin?
23. Ah--gold mining. "The Dwarves delved too deep."
24. I like the ominous weight given to the Dwarf ring! Treating it like the One Ring in the Hobbit never occurred to me (and Dwarves are supposed to be rather more immune to it), but... yeah, the Seven and the Nine should have some of that to them, shouldn't they?
25. Okay, is it the Watcher or the Balrog?
26. Gonna forge the Nine without Celebrimbor? Or--oh! Is that supposed to be one of the lesser ring? One if the essays in the craft?
27. Elves shouldn't be strangers to the other realm. That's one of the oddities of this show: it's like they're all just long-lived humans, not "powerful in both realms" as they should be--naturally powerful, after long dwelling in the Blessed Realm. Glorfindel, remember, never held a Ring.
28. Can't help yourself, can you, Celebrimbor?
29. Saved by the guard, though.
30. As silly as a forge tower is, I'll give them that it's a powerful visual. And Tolkien did love towers with mysterious lights in them.
31. Well... Celebrimbor is the grandson of the Spirit of Fire, I guess. Appearing thus in the other realm would have some logic to it, so, good lie, Annatar.
32. Reese's pieces candles
33. The old man who only speaks in Elvish is a nice touch.
34. A riot is a good thing. <--not exactly sure in what I sense I was thinking, though...
35. That's the second quick-turn-and-sword out moment in as many episodes.
36. A badge of office as a bad outcome does seem somehow Dwarven--or is it another Elrond/Durin parallel: both restored to the trust of their kings, but full of personal misgivings about Rings that (canonically) they will one day bear.
37. The idea that Celebrimbor is now trying to craft his way out of the Rings have problems by making more is... interesting. It is sort of the crux of the Rings (canonically) in a nutshell: we are going to try applying a crafted fix to more "human" problem.
38. More useless dithering from Gil-galad. This show is NOT propaganda in his favour.
39. Adar and Galadriel should be simpatico on the issue of Sauron, at least...

We're moving QUICKLY through the creation of the Rings. After all the non-canonical plot in the first season, I sort of expected them to really stretch out the Mírdain and their fall longer, but it does sort of feel like Celebrimbor might find himself betrayed (and maybe even have his corpse hoist on a pike) by the end of the season.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Form

Pharazôn should have been Gimilkhâd. The actor is good, but this should all be backstory. Pharazân the father just doesn't click for me--part of the whole POINT of Pharazôn is that he's childless: he's the sterile end of the dynasty, as well as a usurper. He's fruitless. (To be fair: the scene did nod a bit that way about him wanting "more") --but imagine if this were Gimilkhâd and we were seeing how Pharazôn came about.

Is Gimilkhad mentioned in material that Amazon has access to? I don't think he's named in the LOTR Appendices, which would be the one place I can think of where he might be mentioned.

I think in the case of Isildur's sister, Earien, there's actual mentions of Isildur having "unnamed sisters." And obviously they can make up any number of characters to fill out the world and plot...Arondir/Theo/Bronwyn/Waldreg/Kemen...etc. But in the case of Gimilkhad, I don't think they can use that name, not being specifically mentioned in material they have the rights to. And they can't make up a different name for Pharazon's dad, because that would contradict established canon. I don't know how those copyright laws end up working though.

My current prediction is Pharazon will end up marrying Miriel to ultimately try to legitimize his rule and have some type of feigned peace between the Faithful and the King's Men, until Sauron swoops in and blows it all open. But they're weaving the seeds of Numenorean civil war that Sauron will ultimately exploit.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Is Gimilkhad mentioned in material that Amazon has access to? I don't think he's named in the LOTR Appendices, which would be the one place I can think of where he might be mentioned.

Ugh... that is it is, isn't it? (I just checked and, yup, Ar-Pharazôn is named as Tar-Minastír's nephew, but Gimilkhâd isn't named in either Appendix A or B).

Still, what if he was just "Uncle" to Míriel and "Father" to Pharazôn? You'd have to recast the plot, of course (though I want that anyway). Alas, that I am not the Head Showrunner and chief plenitpotentiary.

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by Form

part of the whole POINT of Pharazôn is that he's childless: he's the sterile end of the dynasty, as well as a usurper. He's fruitless. (To be fair: the scene did nod a bit that way about him wanting "more")

Originally Posted by Boro

My current prediction is Pharazon will end up marrying Miriel to ultimately try to legitimize his rule and have some type of feigned peace between the Faithful and the King's Men, until Sauron swoops in and blows it all open.

Having Sauron seduce Kemen to being a Ringwraith would also bring about a childless Pharazon.



"Nine rings were given to men, who above all else desire power" that seems to be the way the narrative is pointing at Kemen - someone who is jealous of his father and full of resentment of what is being witheld from him (his mothers' last words). Right now he desires his fathers' approval but I can see Pharazon dramatically belittling him further and driving him to the deceit of power that Sauron will inevitably promise.