Eorling Mead Hall Planning/Discussion Thread

[littlemanpoet]

Greetings, fellow travelers in these lands of the mearas and Eorlingas.

This thread will be a place where we can discuss and plan the action and dialogue and what-not that is written on the Eorling Mead Hall Thread, which can also be understood as 'The White Horse Inn, Act IV'.

Part of what I want to do is make work of the Anglo-Saxon roots of Tolkien's Rohirrim, and that starts with a mead hall.

This immediately ran me into problems, because Meduseld literally means "mead hall" in the Old English spoken where Tolkien lived, the West Midlands of England, known before 1066 as Mercia, which literally means "The Mark". A mead hall was kept by the local lord. And therein lies the problem: King Eomer is the local lord; so how am I, LMP, going to make Eodwine of the Gap, the innkeeper of a mead hall in Edoras, when to do so is to put him on a par with King Eomer?

Solution: King Eomer makes an administrative move to improve the governance (and bureaucracy ) of Rohan by instituting a Mid-Emnet made up of the lands immediately surrounding Edoras, and makes Eodwine the Eorl of Mid Emnet. I suppose it'll do.

Now onto other ideas I have for this thread. Rather than go day to day, what I'd like to do is follow a "day in the life of" mode at the mead hall. Thus, when night closes upon a particular day of events at the mead hall, the new day is not necessarily going to be the very next day; it could be a two or three days, a week, a month, even three months later. Since that kind of idea requires coordination, our kind Moderators of the Rohan RPG Forum suggested that I open up a discussion thread for the Mead Hall thread, in order to facilitate such discussions in an easier manner than Private Messages.

If you have any questions or comments, do post them to this thread; or if you prefer, send me a private message.

EDIT (6/16/07) Speaking of private messages, from time to time some of us have found it useful to create conversations between two or more characters by means of PM. We call these PM-built posts. Feel free to invite your fellow writer(s) to PM-build a post when the situation calls for it. Here are some examples: Eorling Mead HallEodwine, Saeryn, and Kara
Rowenna and Elían
I'll add other examples as I find them.

One rule: There are to be no 'saves'.

And thanks for taking the time.

LMP
--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--*--
Below are a few links to posts that contain useful information about Rohirric culture, expectations for players, and stuff like that:

1. 'A Day in the Life of' mode of keeping time at the Mead Hall. *

2. Anglo-Saxon culture and Horses.

3. Lords and vassals.

4. Away from the Mead Hall posts.*

5. Rohirrim-Dunlending relations.

6. List of Characters at the Eorling Mead Hall.**

7. Dance!

8. On Bailliffs, Stewards, and Almbudsmen.

9. Medieval boy/girl stuff: "rolling in the hay".

10. Oven building

11. Wattle and daub construction

12. Saxon buildings

13. Saxons Village reconstructed

14. Timeline

15. Anglo-Saxon occupations

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Will we that wrote already in The White Horse be keeping our characters and continuing the plot that is already there, or will we be starting from scratch, as it were, with a new Inn?

[Nerindel]

hmm yes I was wondering the same thing? With her current employer off on adventures to the east Æòelhild is rather at a loss, with her current employment cut short and no home to call her own, (well not one that she is willing as yet to return too!) and an underlaying plot haunting her things again look bleak for poor Æòelhild.

Another question? how far from the timeline of the leaving of the innkeeper Bethberry will the opening of the Mead hall take place?

This Link may also prove informative and helpful http://www.tolkiensociety.org/ed/study_a_s_2.html

[Kath]

Well being a newbie to this part of the forum I have no previous plots to worry about so I'm ok with that. But what exactly did you mean by:

Rather than go day to day, what I'd like to do is follow a "day in the life of" mode at the mead hall.

I didn't quite understand it.

[Folwren]

I, too, have just been added to the Rohanian list of writers this last week (hope you don't mind a lot of new people joining you, LMP). . .it's clear already that Rohan is going to be more difficult to live up to than the writing in the Shire.

Here in Rohan, can I have my character simply walk up into the White Horse, just as I would have someone go to the Dragon at the Shire? P'raps, as you're not going to have it go successive days in a row, it would be better if he or she were a type of person to come back fairly often?

King Eomer makes an administrative move to improve the governance (and bureaucracy ) of Rohan by instituting a Mid-Emnet made up of the lands immediately surrounding Edoras, and makes Eodwine the Eorl of Mid Emnet. I suppose it'll do.

Would your Eorling Mead Hall, then, still be in Edoras? And I am somewhat confused on all this King Eomer and the like stuff, having never really thought about it. But if it's not going to directly affect any character that I come up with, do you suppose it's necessary for me to try to figure it out?

Anyhow, before I think up any other questions, I'll close.

-- Folwren

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I wonder if you could clarify something LMP? It sounds as if the Mead Hall is an entirely different building than The White Horse Inn, and that it is no Inn, so to speak. And as such, it might prove more awkward for the women who are neither well placed nor servants to join in.

Also, I was wondering if the purpose of leaving the option open to advance time was so that story lines could be more quickly advanced. If that is the case, perhaps it would be a good idea to consider leaving a DT open?

Many thanks for the excellent link Nerindel! I'm off to read it more closely.

[Mithalwen]

Just reporting in as another newly admitted Writer of Rohan. Like Folwren, I am eager to cut my teeth at this new level but a bit bewildered by the new set up. So I will watch for developments with interest.

[Durelin]

I love the idea of this new 'inn.' I'm always sad that I never have the time/energy to participate in the current inns, but soon, once the two games I'm currently in are over, I think I'll actually stick with just hanging around the inns to get my RPing fix.

So this is a Mead Hall, and not really an inn. How precisely will it be structured? Will we make the 'Mead Hall atmosphere' practically synonymous with that of an inn? Or will we be going for a typical Viking mead hall approach? I can just see that.

And nifty loop hole, by the way.

Will you be leading the 'time jumps,' posting on the Discussion Thread about when you're making a jump and such?

Of course there will be plenty of room for plots, and a lot more for character development with time jumps. So I do love the idea. I think that this kind of set up will be an excellent place for a group to start developing a full fledged RPG storyline, with its beginnings in the Mead Hall.

If you have need of any on-going characters in this Mead Hall for any kind of purposes, please let me know.

-Dur

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Will we that wrote already in The White Horse be keeping our characters and continuing the plot that is already there, or will we be starting from scratch, as it were, with a new Inn?

Excellent question, Fea. Anybody who wishes to keep their old characters around, are encouraged to do so. For my part, you'll be seeing plenty of Falco Boffin, Garreth, and Harreld; and Eodwine, of course.

The time of the new opening will be rather soon after Bethberry's leave-taking; I'd say within a couple of days. Certainly within the same week.

And Eodwine is going to be in need of those who wish to be employed at the Mead hall, so Aeólhild (sorry, can't remember the Ansi for Ae off-hand) will be most welcome to stay on. Eodwine will have to have a conversation with her so as to determine the exact nature of that arrangement.

Kath, a "day in the life of" mode is to be compared to how things run in The Green Dragon Inn, where time is continuous. That is, each new day is precisely the next day on the calendar. By comparison, I want us to have the freedom, as a group of writing rpg'rs, to agree that the next day may dawn on, perhaps, two days later, or a week later, or even a month later, depending on plot lines. Basically, I don't want us to wind up stuck in one week for the entire year. Does that make better sense?

Please pardon my lack of quotes; the computer I'm currently using does not have a good right-clicker.

Folwren, character can, are encouraged to, just walk into the Eorling Mead Hall on any given day. New arrivals are most welcome. And it will still be in Edoras. That was one of the purposes of Eomer's decision: to hand over local government to a local lordling so he could run the kingdom. I suppose the King Eomer stuff isn't really important to anybody but Eodwine, as he will be the one directly answerable to the king.

Aside: It'll be interesting, though, that being a Mead Hall, local issues of justice could reasonably be decided there, and Eodwine would perhaps be the one responsible for handing out that justice. Thinking out loud, there.

The Mead Hall will be the same building, but will be undergoing some renovations. That should be fun. That it is not an Inn shouldn't matter, really. The Anglo-Saxons were a very hospitable people, as are Tolkien's Rohirrim. In fact, Eodwine will be, by Eorling standards, a most hospitable eorl, to men, women and children. Please don't let that be a concern.

Bewilderment may have its place, actually. It could make for some fun writing. But I don't think you'll find yourself quite at sea as you may fear. There is, after all, this discussion thread to answer any questions, and boy, am I glad Pio thought of it!

Yes, we'll be going for the "Viking" mead hall, which wasn't really limited to the vikings at all. (In fact, vikings were pirates (the one word means the other) and therefore had ships instead of mead halls. Legitimate lords and earls had mead halls. It will be set up somewhat differently than the Inns. If you want a really good image of a mead hall from Tolkien, just read up on Beorn in The Hobbit. There's a great picture of it in the illustrated The Hobbit, too.

I will be introducing all potential "time jumps" (handy phrase, that), on this discussion thread, most likely during the evening of each day.

And yes, I do see a need for on-going mead hall characters, Durelin.

I am absolutely thrilled at the level of response! You guys have made my day!

[Kath]

Thanks lmp that does make much more sense!

[Durelin]

The "Viking Mead Hall" was decidedly a poke at stereotypical knowledge of mead halls.

Aside: It'll be interesting, though, that being a Mead Hall, local issues of justice could reasonably be decided there, and Eodwine would perhaps be the one responsible for handing out that justice.

Ooooh... *has an idea for a perhaps short-lived character...*

And thanks for the suggestion, lmp. It's about time I re-read The Hobbit....

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'd like a permanent place for Saeryn, LMP, if that could be arranged... and is agreeable to the Innkeeper.

Since she's currently stuck in limbo, sleeping off a concussion and a bit too much drink, she'll probably be down and out for at least a little longer , but I foresee a nice long talk with the new Innkeeper where she'll weep a lot over the loss of Bethberry, to whom she owes so much, and they'll decide what to do.

Is that, perchance, agreeable?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Kath

Thanks lmp that does make much more sense!

Most welcome, Kath.

Originally Posted by Durelin

The "Viking Mead Hall" was decidedly a poke at stereotypical knowledge of mead halls.

Poked I am. And glad to have inspired some creative juices flowing between the court of justice and a rereading of The Hobbit.

Originally Posted by Fea

I'd like a permanent place for Saeryn, LMP, if that could be arranged... and is agreeable to the Innkeeper. ... Is that, perchance, agreeable?

Most certainly.

And I've been thinking..... whereas in a traditional Mead Hall, everybody just sleeps in one main room, we'll have a variation on that at the Eorling. Y'see, since it is the old White Horse, the only thing that will really need renovation is the common room. All those rooms off down corridors are already there, and Eodwine isn't about to ruin a good thing.

There's just one little problem...... What with ATM running and all these other things I have on my plate, I don't know exactly how soon I can have the first post up on the New Thread that is adequate to the kind of ambiance I want to achieve. So please be patient. It should be up by the end of the weekend.

Thanks!

[Nerindel]

No worries LMP, we look forward to it

So is the main hall going to be pretty much like the lay out of Beorn's hall with a sunken fire pit in the centre of the room and tables up the sides like.. forgive me movie Meduseld and the central area for gathering to hear Scops(poets) and gleemen (Harpists/musicians) who will perform by the fire light?

As for Æðelhild she will be most relieved that work will still be available to her but finding out that Eodwine is an Eorl may make her a little nervous, I will pm you a little more of why this will be so when I find a little more time.

I am also looking forward to the 'time jumps' as fun as a day to day accounting is I always find that I'm eager for the plot to advance and thicken so to speak.

[Bêthberry]

Hello there new Inn--meister and new Inn-mates

I toyed with the idea of burning down the old White Horse Inn after Bethberry left, to leave the place open for lmp to set up his mead hall as he wishes, but decided to leave things for him to work out.

You could, of course, have the fire, and that would allow you to redo completely the physical layout the way you envision it. Also provide some initial requirements for action. (The Horse did have a fire once, though, in the stables, so maybe that is a bit repetitive. Yet a town built of wood and thatch...)

One aspect of the Rohirrim which has never seemed very Anglo-Saxon (or Viking) to me is the horse-rearing and the wide grasslands. I have always read those traits as pertaining to Tolkien's rough geographical layout of Middle-earth, which would put Rohan in the same tradition as the cosssacks of south eastern Europe. (Well, okay, I know the Kievian Rus was founded by Vikings. )

Expect Ruthven when she's least expected!

[littlemanpoet]

Again, pardon the lack of quotes. Yes, Nerindel, it will be as you have queried. There may be an aspect to which Aedhelhild (sorry no ansi to hand again), having known Eodwine before his elevation, may be somewhat less intimidated. But play it as your character is best played, by all means.

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

I toyed with the idea of burning down the old White Horse Inn after Bethberry left, to leave the place open for lmp to set up his mead hall as he wishes, but decided to leave things for him to work out.

Glad you didn't. I don't foresee a burning down; too hard to control those things, and there's too much good about the old White Horse worth preserving.

One aspect of the Rohirrim which has never seemed very Anglo-Saxon (or Viking) to me is the horse-rearing and the wide grasslands. I have always read those traits as pertaining to Tolkien's rough geographical layout of Middle-earth, which would put Rohan in the same tradition as the cosssacks of south eastern Europe. Well, okay, I know the Kievian Rus was founded by Vikings.

I lean on Shippey for this: the particular Anglo-Saxon kingdom that Tolkien called his geographic home, was old Mercia (a latinate word); translated into the West-Midland Anglo-Saxon: literally, 'the Mark'. Shippey goes on to provide evidence (I don't have the tome with me) that the West Midland love of horses is specific to The Mark. Consider how many totemic chalk-horses there are scattered over England; maybe there were more horses in Anglo-Saxon England than the Normans would have liked us to believe. But this is beginning to sound like a Books discussion the way I'm rattling on, so I'll shut up about it.

As you can see from the above few paragraphs, I'm very very enamored of the whole Anglo-Saxon aspect of the English past and history (they are two different things). So this is a really good fit for me at the Mead Hall.

Expect Ruthven when she's least expected!

Cool! Gandalfesque, there, eh?

[Esgallhugwen]

Hello old friends, I have returned to once again enjoy the pleasures of the Barrow Downs.

It's sad that Bethberry has taken her leave. But new beginnings are always fun and exciting. I'd like to reprise my roll as Gudryn, seeing that now LMP is running his very own Inn it might prove difficult to keep the young lass in check.

I very much think that Gudryn would enjoy taking up a job at the Mead Hall. This would help to keep her busy and help her adoptive father with the renovations. Gudryn is fast maturing what with the obstacles and joys that have been thrown her way during the course of her whole life. After all she is becoming a lady sooner then latter and she must begin her journey into adulthood wherever it may lead.

I will leave the decision of her occupation up to you LMP, Gudryn is most capable and has many talents.

[littlemanpoet]

Excellent, Esgal!

I'll have Eodwine bring it up with Gudryn, and we'll see where it goes. Glad to have you back.

[Kath]

lmp if you need helpers in the kitchen I can happily create a character looking for a job. I prefer to have something for a character to do anyway! Anything in particular you need?

[Alcarillo]

And if the Mead Hall needs a young warrior or two, Garwine son of Garulf is looking for a job.

Also, lmp, when should we start posting? I've already typed up half of a post on my computer, and I'm ready to finish and post it as soon as you give the word. Can we do so now, or are you going to post once more telling us about the current events, weather, etc.?

[littlemanpoet]

Weather? Current events? Feel free to be creative with that.

Post now, please!

It never occurred to me that you guys were waiting for me to give you permission. The thread's open. If you've been cleared by Pio, you're fine; go for it.

Employees of all kinds are needed. I need a cook, serving-wench (gotta stick with the lingo of the culture), ostler (stable-man), general repair man, a bailliff, and a couple of men at arms. Oh, and for the next few months, carpenters and other building oriented craftsmen.

[Kath]

I'll take dibs on the serving-wench if you don't mind. I will get a post up soon but unfortunately real life has to come first for a bit.

[piosenniel]

Just chiming in here - yes, please post to the Mead Hall Thread.

Gamers in Rohan are encouraged to be more independent now that you have gamed in the Shire.

~*~ Pio

[Folwren]

LMP, if you don't mind, could I take the job of your Bailiff? If I'm thinking arightly, he'd be able to stay aroudn the Mead Hall quite a bit, but when some questionable character comes around and starts causing trouble, he'd deal with him - arresting him? Is that right? Or am I thinking too. . .violently or excitedly here?

We'll see. . . I'll write a post and put it up soon. . .

-- Folwren

[Anguirel]

Just wondering: what exactly can current Shirelings do in the Mead Hall? Could I, for instance, occupy one of the minor permanent Mead Hall positions?

[Esgallhugwen]

I've made my first post, I hope that you will be happy with it. I can't wait till the other characters start to be introduced both old and new.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Kath

I'll take dibs on the serving-wench if you don't mind.

It's yours, Kath. Let's write it up.

Alcarillo, have Garwine stop by the Mead Hall and get acquainted with Eodwine. Maybe have him say that he had reported to Meduseld and been sent to Eodwine by the King's order. (or something to that effect)

Originally Posted by Pio

Just chiming in here - yes, please post to the Mead Hall Thread.

Thanks, Pio!

Originally Posted by Folwren

LMP, if you don't mind, could I take the job of your Bailiff? If I'm thinking arightly, he'd be able to stay aroudn the Mead Hall quite a bit, but when some questionable character comes around and starts causing trouble, he'd deal with him - arresting him? Is that right? Or am I thinking too. . .violently or excitedly here?

That would be great, Folwren! I looked up bailiff in the dictionary to be sure. I fear I have introduced a Norman/French term (bailiff) into an Anglo-Saxon culture, a major no-no. The Anglo-Saxon term is hafod-monn, which is "head man". What we should be going for is a right-hand man, who carries out the justice that the Eorl speaks in his Mead Hall (court).

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Just wondering: what exactly can current Shirelings do in the Mead Hall? Could I, for instance, occupy one of the minor permanent Mead Hall positions?

Eodwine is a friend of the Shire, having spent time up there. He brought back with him one Master Falco Boffin, a former Shirriff of the Shire. So Holbytlan are most welcome in Eodwine's Mead Hall.

Thanks for your interest and involvement, everybody!

[Folwren]

Originally posted by LmP:
I looked up bailiff in the dictionary to be sure. I fear I have introduced a Norman/French term (bailiff) into an Anglo-Saxon culture, a major no-no. The Anglo-Saxon term is hafod-monn, which is "head man". What we should be going for is a right-hand man, who carries out the justice that the Eorl speaks in his Mead Hall (court).

Um. . .then how should I introduce my character? Should he, too, be suggested by King Eomer, or should I walk in and ask if you can use me?

Sorry for so many questions. . .

-- Folwren

[Nerindel]

I think for the moment I will have Æðelhild continue doing the same chores she had been doing for the pervious keep, airing the rooms changing linen and generally helping out where needed is that ok?

This link might be interesting for anyone interested in taking up the role of cook

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

The basic rule of thumb is "Do what you think will work best."

Much like Dorothy and her experience with Kansas, you aren't in the Shire anymore. You get more freedom. Have fun with it.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Um. . .then how should I introduce my character? Should he, too, be suggested by King Eomer, or should I walk in and ask if you can use me?

The culture was one of authority, but in a relaxed way, certainly as compared to modern military organizations. So there's a "who you know" side to this; it doesn't have to be the King; it could be any man at arms, because any one of them who has his post in Edoras, knows Eodwine, a veteran himself from the Ring War. So they'll be looking for likely types to send his way. If you can think of an alternate way that you'd rather do it, give it a try, and I could tell you what needs revising if anything is too far out for the culture.

These two links may be of interest and aid to us:
Bright's Anglo-Saxon glossary; and Regia Anglorum for which I'm indebted to Nerindel; thanks!! And thanks for the recipe link. Being mainly an eater and drinker and not a fixer of foods, it'll help me out in writing this thread.

Good words, Feanor.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Shwoa! More wonderful links, many thanks Nerindel!

[Nerindel]

Happy to help! oh I forgot about Ravensgard this one is good too.

[Folwren]

I'm using the word Bailiff in my posts. Is there another word I can or should replae it with? I can't think of anything better, but if you don't want it there tell me. But also help me out with a replacement, please!

-- Folwren

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Perhaps Saeryn will take up the post of the Offical Greeting Lady.

Actually, I might have her approach Eodwine about the idea once he's got a spare moment. While he runs the Mid-Emnet and the mead hall, she could take care of the household businesses and lodging and such until... you know... Eodwine finds himself a wife.

What think you, LMP?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Folwren

I'm using the word Bailiff in my posts. Is there another word I can or should replae it with? I can't think of anything better, but if you don't want it there tell me. But also help me out with a replacement, please!

Quite simple, after having done the necessary research, and wouldn't you know that Tolkien has beaten us to it? The correct word is steward. Plain and simple. I think that the title of steward means more than bailiff, but I have no problem with that.

Originally Posted by Feanor

Perhaps Saeryn will take up the post of the Offical Greeting Lady.

Sounds great to me, Fea. The title for that role is, I'm afraid, rather prosaic: hostess. Alternates are 'stewardess' (but that would be at a higher level than hostess, and require more responsibility), and 'housewife', since there is apparently no distinction that I'm aware of between woman and wife. At any rate, Særyn seems to have slipped into the role rather smoothly, and that's fine with me.

Sorry, Anglo-Saxon and Rohirric cultures were not exactly known for equality of role between the genders.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Hostess, of course. LIke a Twinkie... only not. Sweet.

[littlemanpoet]

Folwren must have rl business with which to deal .... therefore, I'm going to post a move in the time continuum to lunch time or something, and have Eodwine move on to other things; Folwren, feel free to write Thornden's reply to Eodwine and have it occur in 'past perfect' as a thinking back thing in your next post.

I won't post immediately, so anybody, let me know by 6 pm eastern if you need me to hold off.

[Firefoot]

Folwren, I believe, does not currently have internet access at home, only at work, and her work days are fairly limited.

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks for the info, Firefoot. I had internet issues of my own until right now. "Whew!" Now to get busy....

Ack! Not enough time. Will post something some time tomorrow. Sorry! Anybody, feel free to post and move the day along .... a little bit....