Unpublished Material

[Alassë Estel]

I'll get straight to the point: I am really wondering, are there yet unpublished tales, Middle Earth related or not, which we've not heard before?

There were several books published posthumously. And Christopher Tolkien edited and published some of his father's work after J.R.R.T's death, I think. But is there anything left? Do you suppose we could dare hope that we may get new material over the next decades? I am assuming someone here would certainly know. It may be a fool's hope, I fear. But it should make for a discussion, at any rate.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

I'll get straight to the point: I am really wondering, are there yet unpublished tales, Middle Earth related or not, which we've not heard before?

There were several books published posthumously. And Christopher Tolkien edited and published some of his father's work after J.R.R.T's death, I think. But is there anything left? Do you suppose we could dare hope that we may get new material over the next decades? I am assuming someone here would certainly know. It may be a fool's hope, I fear. But it should make for a discussion, at any rate.

Christopher Tolkien spent the greater part of his life publishing his father's unfinished manuscripts with great detail: The Silmarillion, the 12 volume History of Middle-earth, The Children of Húrin, The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún, The Fall of Arthur, Beowulf: A Translation and Commentary, Beren and Lúthien, The Fall of Gondolin, etc., working feverishly nearly up to the last year of his life to ensure copyrights for the Tolkien Family Trust could be held for the forseeable future.

There was also an official separate book, The Nature of Middle-earth, which is a compilation of minor writings by J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by Carl F. Hostetter and published in 2021 in a single book.

Other than that, there is scant left that is workable at this point. Or worthwhile, for that matter. Just picking over the bones.

[Huinesoron]

The only narrative text I know of that's unpublished is the original English of The Complaint of Mim the Dwarf. It would be about four pages long.

In non-narrative form, there's probably a bunch of linguistic stuff; I believe both Parma Eldalamberon and Vinyar Tengwar have their next issue at least theoretically in the works, and I know I've seen mention of them having a bunch of stuff to work through. They are mostly going to be short essays and wordlists though, and pretty limited in their distribution/accessibility.

There's at least one substantial linguistic piece out there in the wings: the "fairly complete Taliska grammar" mentioned in HoME V, which has been with the people behind the linguistic stuff for ages uncounted. Another substantial piece of Tolkien writing I'd like to see would be the complete version of Letter 210, his response to the Zimmerman script. (I'd also like to see the script treatment itself!) And based on Galin's post in this thread, there might be an unabridged "History of Galadriel and Celeborn" somewhere. But I don't know of any significant narratives that have been hinted at but never seen.

~

I also wondered about the opposite question: what Tolkien tales are already published, either by themselves or buried somewhere in HoME? Excluding the many discarded drafts, and allowing the published Silmarillion to stand in for the latest JRR Tolkien version (I know, I know), my chronological(ish) list of the Tales of Arda runs like this:

• The Book of Lost Tales (HoME I & II; near-complete and very different original Silmarillion)
• The Awakening of the Quendi (HoME XI; fairy-tale of the origin of the Elves)
• Silmarillion
• Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth (HoME X; Finrod's conversation with Beren's great-aunt)
• Beren & Luthien
• Lay of Leithian (HoME III; epic poem)
• The Complain of Mim the Dwarf (published only in German)
• Children of Hurin
• Lay of the Children of Hurin (HoME III; epic poem)
• The Wanderings of Hurin (HoME XI; coda to the Children of Hurin)
• Fall of Gondolin
• Unfinished Tales
• Tal-Elmar (HoME XII; beginning of a Second Age tale)
• Fall of Numenor
• Hobbit
• The Adventures of Tom Bombadil
• LotR
• LotR Epilogue (HoME IX; Sam and his children, years after Frodo's departure)
• The New Shadow (HoME XII; beginning of a sequel to LotR)
• The Lost Road (HoME V; unfinished time-travel novel of Numenor)
• The Notion Club Papers (HoME IX; unfinished literary commentary turned time-travel novel of Numenor)

Other than the Book of Lost Tales (which I would love to see a "reader's edition" of), and the names used in some of the stories (notably The Lost Road and the early Lay of Leithian, you can pretty much read these as a single consistent narrative. The relatively minor differences can be put down to different accounts of the same tale - clearly, whoever was writing them down didn't actually know whether Hurin took a pack of bandits and a hoarde of gold to Doriath, or went by himself with a single necklace.

(There are also a fair number of non-Middle-earth tales, but I've gone on too long already. ^_^)

hS

[Mithadan]

As Bethberry posted in another thread, Letters by Tolkien is getting a facelift and will be published soon. There are various books of Tolkien artwork which often contain analysis and comments, as well as The Road Goes Ever On, which contains a few of Tolkien's songs or poems, set to music with JRRT's approval. There are various publications that produce snippets of Tolkien's writings that are primarily linguistic or philosophical in nature but do contain nuggets. These include Parma Eldalamberon and Vinya Tengwar. There is a journal of Tolkien Studies that is primarily analytical or scholarly, but sometimes includes papers that discuss and analyze materials in the Tolkien collections of Marquette and the Bodleian (which do contain drafts that include alternative wording or versions, often rejected). One of our members, William Cloud Hicklin, recently published Chronology of the Lord of the Rings (discussed here http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=19520) based upon Tolkien's own notes. Hammond and Scull have published the Tolkien Companion and Guide, and an LoTR Reader's Guide which contain snippets of some unpublished materials. So there exist unpublished materials, mostly of interest to scholars and the obsessed (no insult to anyone intended, one man's dross is another's treasure), that find their way into the world through various vehicles.

However, if you are asking whether there are substantial unpublished Middle-Earth writings and stories that are more or less completed (as opposed to fragments, notes and memos), the answer is likely no. Most of the substantial drafts by JRRT were published in HoME.

[Alassë Estel]

Thank you all! I am glad for the new knowledge. It seems you all agree that there probably isn't anything else left, at least nothing whole. But perhaps bits and peices of little things.

A question I have asked myself, I think I shall ask here too. If there was some forgotten manuscript or lost notes, what would you hope they contained?

My answers are:
The fate of the Entwives confirmed, hopefully they would be found.
The tale of Bilbo's fairy (elf? )ancestor, on the Took side.
Whether or not Tom B. and Goldberry ever had children (just imagine a whole troop of blue-jacketted, yellow shod, merry mini Bombadils singing away, all through the Old Forest)

Given more time, I could probably come up with many other things. Does anyone else have any?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

The tale of Bilbo's fairy (elf? )ancestor, on the Took side.

Not by Tolkien, but see here.

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Whether or not Tom B. and Goldberry ever had children (just imagine a whole troop of blue-jacketted, yellow shod, merry mini Bombadils singing away, all through the Old Forest)

Well...

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Given more time, I could probably come up with many other things. Does anyone else have any?

I've always been wondering about the old man who sat outside the Paths of the Dead and died after saying 'The way is shut'. But then if his story were told a mystery suggesting hidden depths would turn into just another piece of Middle-earth lore, so... better not.

[Val Balmer]

In the years, I have written down a few notes on unpublished material I am aware of (mainly a bunch of poems).

Here's a brief summary_

• The first essay at a prose version of the tale "Beren & Luthien" [QS A + Final Version]
• The Dale-lands (1910, 1914)
• The Grimness of the Sea (1912, 1914)
• The Trumpets of Faerie (1914) / The Horns of the Host of Doriath (1924)
• The Mermaid’s Flute (1914, 1915, 1917)
• The Children of Hurin (Rhyming Couplets) (1930s)
• Dark (1914) / Copernicus and Ptolemy (1915-03-08)
• 'May-day' (1915-05-20)
• Dark Are the Clouds about the North (1915-09-14)
• Companions of the Rose (1915)
• A Dream of Coming Home & A Memory of July in England (1916-07-03)
• 'G.B.S.' (1916-17)
• Physiologus:
• >>Reginhardus, the Fox (~1920)
• >>Monoceros, the Unicorn (~1920)
• The Brothers in Arms (1919-20)
• Tales and Songs of Bimble Bay (1928):
• >>Old Grabber (1928)
• >>A Song of Bimble Bay (1928)
• The End of Bovandium or The Bovadium Fragments (1960s)
• 'Morning Song'.

[Alassë Estel]

Thanks for the reading material, Pitchwife . And I quite agree about letting some things, like the old man at the Paths of The Dead, remain mysterious. Tolkien had a knack for knowing which things should be resolved, and which should be left obscure.

I really appreciate the list Val Balmer. I am going to look each one up when I have time.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

I've always been wondering about the old man who sat outside the Paths of the Dead and died after saying 'The way is shut'. But then if his story were told a mystery suggesting hidden depths would turn into just another piece of Middle-earth lore, so... better not.

He's a really interesting example, because he's already linked to a note that does away with a "mystery suggesting hidden depths" - the one about Baldor, the prince of Rohan who met him. LotR makes Baldor's fate sound very mysterious:

Originally Posted by RotK

He had fallen near the far wall of the cave, as now could be seen, and before him stood a stony door closed fast: his finger-bones were still clawing at the cracks. A notched and broken sword lay by him, as if he had hewn at the rock in his last despair.

"... through all the long years he has lain at the door that he could not unlock. Whither does it lead? Why would he pass? None shall ever know!"

Fantastic. Beautiful. Until you find the note Tolkien wrote explaining the whole thing:

Originally Posted by JRRT

...the door was the entrance to an evil temple hall to which Baldor had come, probably without opposition up to that point. But the door was shut in his face, and enemies that had followed him silently came up and broke his legs and left him to die in the darkness, unable to find any way out.

Baldor didn't die clawing at the door, so desperate to break in that he cared nothing for his own life. He was attacked and got turned around looking for the exit. The man at the gate was probably named Bill.

hS

[mhagain]

Originally Posted by Alassë Estel

Thank you all! I am glad for the new knowledge. It seems you all agree that there probably isn't anything else left, at least nothing whole. But perhaps bits and peices of little things.

A question I have asked myself, I think I shall ask here too. If there was some forgotten manuscript or lost notes, what would you hope they contained?

My answers are:
The fate of the Entwives confirmed, hopefully they would be found.
The tale of Bilbo's fairy (elf? )ancestor, on the Took side.
Whether or not Tom B. and Goldberry ever had children (just imagine a whole troop of blue-jacketted, yellow shod, merry mini Bombadils singing away, all through the Old Forest)

Given more time, I could probably come up with many other things. Does anyone else have any?

If I'm allowed shoot for the stars, my hope is that some forgotten box somewhere might contain the rest of the 1950s Fall of Gondolin. Of course it 99.999999% probably doesn't exist at all, and was indeed abandoned just as we have it. But if we're allowed fantasise about what we'd love to have existing, that would have to be it.

[Mithadan]

I agree. the Hurin/Turin tale was essentially completed in all but the details. Beren and Luthien was reworked so many times that there is ample material to read even though there is not a single detailed narrative. It is the Tuor/Fall of Gondolin/Earendil story that cries out for a full treatment that does not really exist.

[Val Balmer]

I fully agree that it would be great to have a full (post-Lord of the Rings) version of The Fall of Gondolin or Earendil, but, as it was said, the probability that those exist are minimal.

On the other hand we know there is a fuller prose version of Beren and Luthien yet unpublished... I'd really like to see that first

[Arvegil145]

There's also the Taliska lexicon - which might just get published when my great-grandkids graduate from college...

[Aiwendil]

Not Legendarium-related, but there's also Tolkien's partial verse translation of "Beowulf". I still don't really understand why it was not included in the volume containing his prose translation.

The Tolkien Gateway has a fairly extensive list of unpublished texts by Tolkien known to exist: Index: Unpublished Material

[Alassë Estel]

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Not Legendarium-related, but there's also Tolkien's partial verse translation of "Beowulf". I still don't really understand why it was not included in the volume containing his prose translation.

The Tolkien Gateway has a fairly extensive list of unpublished texts by Tolkien known to exist: Index: Unpublished Material

Thanks! I'll check that right away.

[Tar Elenion]

From the TG link:
Concerning ... 'The Hoard'

A transcription is or has been online. Not official published, though.

Elvish time (partially published)

Isn't this in NoMe 1 XXI

Essay, written in response to seeing Pauline Baynes's depiction...

Also in NoMe 2 VI, though, I think, in an edited (by CFH) form (as Tolkien was 'wrathful' in some of his commentary, see BoLT 2).

Númenórean religion

Maybe this will come in the expanded Letters later this year. Or one can hope.

[Aiwendil]

Originally Posted by Tar Elenion

Elvish time (partially published)

Isn't this in NoMe 1 XXI

Essay, written in response to seeing Pauline Baynes's depiction...

Also in NoMe 2 VI, though, I think, in an edited (by CFH) form (as Tolkien was 'wrathful' in some of his commentary, see BoLT 2).

I think you're right on both of these, though I don't have NoMe on hand at the moment. That's the danger of Wikis - updates tend to be inconsistent.