The Agony of Poor Spelling

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

While I expect no one to be able to spell my name (it would be cruel) surely we care enough about the english language to at least attempt to spell the titles of our threads correctly? To quote Dr. Smith.. oh, the pain, the pain...

Following is the Barrow-downs Hall of Shame:

• Why does everyone descriminate against people who use there imagination?
• Did anyone else find the Silmaillion confusing?
• Am I the only one who finds this picture of Frodo dusterbing?
• Things that LOTR characters just woulden't say
• I made a poem
  (one writes poems, one does not make them - I fear to read it)
• Barrow Wrights (sp?)
  (Note: 2 points for at least knowing it was misspelled)
• Audience Partisipation!
  (this is a personal favorite)
• New way to make decissions
• Any1 here taht actually speaks elvish or somethin else?
  (we subtract an extra 20 points for any misspellings in the language forum!)
• 101 Actors (thankfully) not casted in the FOTR
  (casted is not a word darling)
• Funny pictures contenued

Sigh. I'm afraid this is to be 'contenued.'

-Maril

[Maikadilwen]

Oh I love it Marileangorifurnimaluim . See how easy it is to spell your name right when using a simple technique called "cut and paste". [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

What a brilliant idea to have a Hall of Shame. Those lines are great.

[Raefindel]

I have to say, one of my favorites is "Greetings and Solutions"

[Susan Delgado]

Barrow Wrights (sp?)
(Note: 2 points for at least knowing it was misspelled)

-10 points for not doing anything about it.

[Bêthberry]

Might we nominate subcategories for Worst Performance as a Grammatical Statement and Lamest Supporting Role for Punctuation?

The nominees are

How many and What were Arwen and Aragorn's children's names?

boromir's more sinister appearance than was true?

Umltimate Matchup. 4 Men Enter! !Man Exit.

My views on the Film (It wouldn't let me post on the other topic like this)

Rename the Fllowship

Elfish?

whats the shortest time youve taken to read Lotr

Are TICKETS being sold yet?!?!?!?!

YO!!!!!!!!!!

Help me please!!!!!!!!!!!

LOTR fanatics .. read on .. help?

Bethberry, you failed to add a colon at the end of "The nominees are".

A Hall of Shame? That would be a bit harsh, wouldn't it? But then again, people here at the Downs like to make fun of every single spelling/grammar error.

Please, please get a dictionary. But for now:

elfs
(-2 points for not capitallizing. The plural of "elf" is "elves", not "elfs".)

Parallells...
(-3 points. There are too many Ls.)

--- Edit ---

Oh, and don't forget..

"the threat of isenguard"

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: Khroa the Eagle ]

[Amanaduial the archer]

man, for those of us out there who are dislexic, this is a cruel, cruel thread! Nah, j/k, some of the spelling is truly dire, especially stuff like "the barrow-Wright."

marileangorifurnimaluim....wait for it, wait for it...

I GOT IT RIGHT! WITHOUT COPYING AND PASTING! WOOHOO! *does a little dance until she realises shes attracting really wierd looks, even from a bunch of wraiths.* erm, sorry....

[ October 14, 2002: Message edited by: Amanaduial the archer ]

[Bêthberry]

Hello Khroa the Eagle,

Bethberry, you failed to add a colon at the end of "The nominees are".

No, actually I did not fail to add the colon. The colon would be incorrect. The verb "to be" is a linking verb (copula) which requires a subject completion. The colon would separate incorrectly the successive, dependent units of clause structure. This is a very common error, seen very often. For a full explanation, see Quirk and Greenbaum, A University Grammar of English.

If you like, I will edit the sentence to read the following:

"The nominees are the following: "

That would use the correct form with the colon. As it stands, my original sentence is correct.

And, BTW, no one here at the Downs ridicules every single spelling and grammar error. We all can make mistakes and fail to proofread correctly. Maril's point, and mine, is that at least the thread titles deserve to be thoughtfully and carefully written, revised if necessary, and proofread thoroughly. Many people do not take the time to do that, and unfortunately the thread titles do kind of stand out.

And, also, please note that neither Maril nor I named any names. The thread titles are given here anonymously. We want to raise awareness about good writing habits rather than point fingers at specific people.

*curtsies respectfully*

Bethberry

[ October 13, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[Alkanoonion]

And, BTW, no one here at the Downs ridicules every single spelling and grammar error.

This is true, not once have any of my many errors been quoted. Let me just say that topics like this one are good because they help people like me become more aware of the correct way that posts should be presented. I welcome any and all comments that help me learn. Keep up the good work.
[img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[Nevfeniel]

Actually, Alk, I have yet to come across any errors in your posts, but maybe I'm not looking hard enough [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img].
Anyways, I just want to add one of my favorite misspellings (which means I hate seeing it):
Rivendale.
Urgh! I can't stand that!

[Kithrèna Greenarrow Legolas]

*Hangs head in shame*
Seeing as how just about all My posts made it into the "Hall Of Fame" For bad spelling, I'd like to apologize. I know My spelling skills match that of a anteater, but My reading skills beat My English Teacher.
I will take the time to go find all My old posts and correct the spelling in the subject. I'd also correct the spelling in all My replys, but seeing as how I've got a good number of them, I'm afraid I wont be able to do so.
I have found a good online spell checker and will be doing all My posts and perhaps most of My replys in that.

I am sorry again. Please forgive Me.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'd like to dedicate this one to Rimbaud:

Frodo- Dancing in his underwhere (sp?)

[Rimbaud]

Squatter - Under where?

I think you have an option for an epitaph, good sir.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I thought you'd appreciate that little gem.

An epitaph? Let mine simply read

Home is the drinker, home from the pub
And the idler returned to the bed.

[Amanaduial the archer]

The verb "to be" is a linking verb (copula) which requires a subject completion. The colon would separate incorrectly the successive, dependent units of clause structure. This is a very common error, seen very often. For a full explanation, see Quirk and Greenbaum, A University Grammar of English.

*whimpers and starts to back away slowly* Im s-scared...`

[VanimaEdhel]

My spelling skills match that of a anteater

How do you know anteater's are not good spellers? [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

The verb "to be" is a linking verb (copula) which requires a subject completion. The colon would separate incorrectly the successive, dependent units of clause structure. This is a very common error, seen very often. For a full explanation, see Quirk and Greenbaum, A University Grammar of English.

********************

*whimpers and starts to back away slowly* Im s-scared...

I know...I had to read that twice there to make sure she was really saying what she was saying...wowsers...ever think of becoming an English teacher, Bethberry?

And Kithréna, no worries, you will get better with time!

I use the colon out of context too much. I know I do. It's just easier to do so. As in, when I wrote

And Kithréna, no worries, you will get better with time!

I was tempted to say

And: Kithréna: no worries! You will get better with time!

but then I realized that would totally defeat the entire point of Bethberry's grammar lesson.

[ October 14, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]

[lindil]

Kithrèna Greenarrow Legolas

100 pts for honesty, repentance and humility!

I also commit numerous errors of spelling and grammar w/ nearly every post so I also ask forgiveness for the many painful semi- or un-edited posts [950 or so at the moment] I have inflicted on all of you.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Here's another little gem for your delectation and disbelief:

Plus scince it was pure tobacco and al natural, It would'nt be as bad.......more like smokeing...mint or some other herb

[HerenIstarion]

The number of threads which are at the same time posted by your humble servant and worth listing here is enormous. Encantations for one, and loads of others.

well, I have no excuses but one - I'm trying hard not to do it [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] If it can't be counted as a good excuse, I'll ask for forgiveness.


edit: I changed encantations to incantations.

*H-I stands up and solemnly promises to try harder and eliminate any mispellings on his behalf

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]

[Belin]

Oh, H-I, you're a non-native speaker who lives in a country where a completely different language is spoken, so of course you're going to make mistakes. I'm actually impressed enough by what you said about learning the language just to read books that weren't translated into your own that I think your mistakes should be universally forgiven. Then again, my own experiences with Spanish may have heightened my predisposition for this. Amanaduial's dyslexia makes proofreading difficult as well, I would imagine. What's asked for on this thread is clearly more difficult for some than for others.

I made a poem
(one writes poems, one does not make them - I fear to read it)

On the other hand, I wrought a play. Hmmm...

some of the spelling is truly dire, especially stuff like "the barrow-Wright."

Interestingly enough, BW is one of the few barrow-wights around who really is a barrow wright. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

And, also, please note that neither Maril nor I named any names. The thread titles are given here anonymously. We want to raise awareness about good writing habits rather than point fingers at specific people.

Of course, the makers of threads are very easy to identify, and correct spelling does not constitute "good writing habits," but there's no point in getting into a discussion of literacy here. The writing center worker in me does have some problems with this thread, creature of the autonomous model that it is, but I wouldn't want people to think me overwrought.

--Belin Ibaimendi

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: Belin ]

[GreatWarg]

Marileangorifurnimaluim - Yes, quite irksome. The Middle-earth Mayhem section is simply mad. I do not even bother looking there anymore. As for the Movies? Fan girls screaming with those mind-boggling !!!'s. A major nuisance to ones who wish to post thoughtful messages. And the smilies (I realize that many people do this) are majority of many posts I see. And I wonder at one thing in particular: Why did the Barrow-Wight create the Middle-earth Mayhem section? I see many of the (forgive my use of words out of lack of better words to use as description) "teeny-boppers" post constantly in that section and yet do not take thought in other areas. Also, such new persons are interfering with RPGs in the Freestyle and other rooms that are serious and follow the course of Tolkien's lore strictly. At such times I wonder...

[Kuruharan]

Why did the Barrow-Wight create the Middle-earth Mayhem section? I see many of the..."teeny-boppers" post constantly in that section and yet do not take thought in other areas.

Looked at from a certain point of view that might be considered a good thing.

[Bêthberry]

Ah, Belin,

After some thought, I find I cannot let this go by without some small observations, however graciously and wittily you made your post. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

and correct spelling does not constitute "good writing habits," ... The writing center worker in me does have some problems with this thread....

Hmm. Only certain perspectives on language and literacy take that point of view on spelling, not all; it is, you might say, not a truth universally acknowledged.

And this (former) writing center worker has no problems with this thread. In fact, I think it does greater disservice, even handicaps people further(whether ESL or learning disabled) to provide excuses for poor workmanship. Put it this way: "Oh, my poor dears. I know it is hard for you to accomplish this, harder than for others, so that's okay. You don't have to. We'll understand. Everytime we see your mistakes we'll just remember why."

As to the issue of privacy, I would argue that identity has been discretely handled, for there still remains the need to search for the threads. And after all, posting something here under one's screen name is a public act.

But perhaps you are happy with seeing chatish spreading throughout the forums?

Bethberry

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Why did the Barrow-Wight create the Middle-earth Mayhem section?

I wouldn't presume to guess. I quite like it there, though. If the humour can leave something to be desired it's up to those of us who like to leaven their whimsy with literacy to do something about it. So long as it remains Tolkien-related, the place can chug along happily without troubling me.

The Middle-earth Mayhem section is simply mad.

Now you're beginning to see it my way.

Of course, the makers of threads are very easy to identify, and correct spelling does not constitute "good writing habits," but there's no point in getting into a discussion of literacy here.

You've raised a couple of important points, Belin: firstly, since not everyone reveals their earthly location, it isn't always easy to tell when someone's not a native speaker of English, in which case a certain lack of polish is understandable. Secondly, it's impossible to differentiate between laziness and the effects of dyslexia, sufferers from which can do without our ridicule; and finally, yes it is obvious to whom we refer, so undue scorn should be avoided to avoid descending to the level of personal abuse.

I do think, however, that it's worth pointing out the more egregious insults to the language that are perpetrated on this forum, which prides itself on its literacy. I admit that I derive a certain amount of amusement from it, but it's also by way of a protest against the hideous mess of abbreviations, phonetic spellings and confused grammar, which if allowed to go unchallenged will sweep across this board, removing all trace of elegance from its threads. Whilst recognising that certain members are at something of a disadvantage in an English milieu (not least regular watchers of MTV), I think that we ought to continue to lampoon and decry laziness and illiteracy wherever appropriate.

[Telchar]

Thank you Belin for noticing that not all of us are from english speaking contries. I personally, could spend a long time repenting my numerous errors - I wont. I only have 'this much' time to read, write and reply to posts. I could use more of that time on spell checking - that would mean less reading, and less posting. I simply don't like the view of that.

Surely I can understand that simple errors can be annoying to the reader. But usually, when the mistakes are so obvious that even I can see them, I ask myself - would I rather miss the post and the poor spelling? (and even simple typos that I see mocked in here) or would I rather read the post, and live with the typos? - I lean in the latter direction.

This is only a personal view - and when that is said I ask this: If we used all the time consumed by spellchecking, what could we achieve? And what if we focused on talking Tolkien instead of starting spell check threats? We wonder, yeesss, weee wonder!


Cheers Telchar

[Birdland]

Telchar - you spell pretty good for someone who claims they can't spell. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

I hesitate to "throw stones", since I am constantly going back and editing posts after sending them, because I spot spelling errors. (If I didn't erase the "edit" messages at the bottom, you'd see that I go back two or three times on some.)

But the idea that The Message is All and spelling and grammer do not matter has been given way too much weight in this day and age. People on message boards like the Downs probably write more than the average citizen, at least in the U.S. What better place to practice your skills than on the board? If nothing else, a future employer might be impressed.

And for pity's sake: learn paragraph form, people! These old eyes have trouble reading a great clump of words, no matter how interesting the ideas being expressed. I can muddle through a post that is misspelled, but I have given up on reading a great many posts that were not broken down into paragraphs.

Try it, folks. You'll be pleased with the results. (And see? There I go again. Editing!)

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

[lindil]

I am constantly going back and editing posts after sending them, because I spot spelling errors. (If I didn't erase the "edit" messages at the bottom, you'd see that I go back two or three times on some.)

that's me!

and I second B'lands, "good place to practice" idea.

[Raefindel]

I tend to try to enjoy the humor in the mis-spelled words rather than be annoyed by them, particularly because I am aware that for many here, English is not their first language.

[Amanaduial the archer]

i never fail to be impressed by the people who can post so eloquently, especially when english isnt their first language. sickening really. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Squatter of Amon Rudh- yes that really is quite painful!

Come on though, if some of you people raise yourselves much higher, your gonna have serious trouble getting down again! The Middle Earth Mayhem section is just a bit of fun- if the entire forum was completely stiff, thered probably not be half the people. Its nice to have a mix!

[VanimaEdhel]

Hey, GreatWarg! I go to the Middle-Earth Mayhem section too! It is not all girls drooling over people.

Not to advertise, but check out my thread "Arda Elections" on there...

Anyway, I do not mind one or two typographical errors, even if the people speak English as their first language. Everyone can make mistakes and then even sometimes miss them when editing the message. If we were to point it out kindly, maybe people (such as myself) would not be terrified of making one mistake and then not seeing it. That would be why I check my messages about three times (and yet I still sometimes have mistakes).

EDIT: And then, when you go to reread your message and the sentence structure makes no sense whatsoever because you were going between the TV, the Chatroom and this message, you should edit and completely rephrase the message!

[ October 16, 2002: Message edited by: VanimaEdhel ]

[Marileangorifurnimaluim]

The agony of poor spelling. I titled this thread so for a reason. It is wincingly painful to read poorly spelled, sloppy work. Why would anyone embarrass themselves so?

The foreign speakers are generally quite obvious. Not from the bottom of their post, but their stiffer sentence construction, odd though not incorrect word choices, and especially lack of vernacular. Most foreign posters carefully craft their posts, and the effort is unmistakable.

It's carelessness that bothers me.

Here's a case in point. I couldn't for the life of me remember how to spell 'vernacular.' The 'vern' looked wrong. I copied the word, plunked it into a blank email, then ran spellcheck. I do this all the time. If I didn't delete the 'edits' at the bottom of the screen (et tu, Birdie?) they would really stack up.

My point isn't to embarrass anyone into behaving better. My purpose here is to whine.

-Maril

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: Marileangorifurnimaluim ]

[HerenIstarion]

I am constantly going back and editing posts after sending them, because I spot spelling errors. (If I didn't erase the "edit" messages at the bottom, you'd see that I go back two or three times on some.)

well, me too


and concerining odd word choices:

recently I was advised to use "I guess" instead of "I deem", though for me nothing was wrong with "I deem" choice. I suppose there are many other words I use which suffer the selfsame oddness
[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[ October 17, 2002: Message edited by: HerenIstarion ]

edit: almost two years thence - funny how spelling error preserved for said period in a post where I state that I actually do edit my posts. Weird! I 'bolded' said error to stand as a constant reminder to my arrogant self...

[lindil]

Whine hereby registered as complete.

[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

[Bêthberry]

Ah, Vanima,

I know...I had to read that twice there to make sure she was really saying what she was saying...wowsers...ever think of becoming an English teacher, Bethberry?

Ever read the Books forum, Vanima?*hint* [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]


I suppose you don't want me to discuss dangling participles, do you? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Bethberry

[ October 19, 2002: Message edited by: Bethberry ]

[HerenIstarion]

well, I do. It's so fascinating... well, I mean it. I have a good training guessing out your terms - since I studied not english grammar, I have to translate the thing into georgian and than try to work out what exactly do you mean [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[Birdland]

recently I was advised to use "I guess" instead of "I deem", though for me nothing was wrong with "I deem" choice.

HerenIstarion - there is nothing wrong with the use of "I deem", except to suggest that you were born 400 years ago. It is a very archaic phrase.

(Hmmmmmm, Birdie pictures Heren sitting at his computer in doublet and hose. A scene straight out of Shakespeare! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I don't deem it necessary for you to make any such change, Heren Istarion.

It's all a matter of taste or lack of it. Personally I find "I guess" to be an unsatisfying substitute for "I suppose".

[Rimbaud]

You speak as an American, Birdie. I don't consider it archaic. I dislike the phrase "I guess" immensely, particularly in the context of its modern usage, much prefering "deem" and "suppose".

[Birdland]

Oooooh, listen to the "quality" speak! "I deem" indeed! If my dear ol' mom heard you talkin' like that, she'd tell ya to "quit puttin' on airs, boy." [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[Rimbaud]

Indeed, at High Tea on our lawns, one can hear some quite high-falutin' language, to be sure. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]