Genetic engineering ~ The Uruk-Hai

[Grey Fool]

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BW may remember this one from a chat I had with him some time ago.....
If the Uruk-Hai are essentially uber-orcs, consisting of human and orc, what was the method of their creation?
What was the true purpose of their creation?
How did Saruman lay claim to so many during his campaign for power in the third age?
This and other topics haunt me regularly - help!
(This being my first post) <img src=roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

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[HerenIstarion]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Genetic engineering ~ The Uruk-Hai


Welcome, GF <img src=smile.gif ALT=""> though I deem this post to be your second one <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

1 The method must be trivial (i mean with no other &quot;magical&quot; power involved) crossbreeding.
2 Purpose is obtaining more servants, more powerful and capable than simple orcs, and desire of ruling minds of other creatures
3 Orcs were always known for their ability of quick propagation



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[HerenIstarion]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Genetic engineering ~ The Uruk-Hai

you posted the same topic twice, seemingly, <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

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[Grey Fool]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Genetic engineering ~ The Uruk-Hai

The idea of so-called trivial cross-breeding between a human and an orc has caused a somewhat disturbing image to nestle in my head<img src=sick.gif ALT=":x">
SURELY the Dark Lord would have had to have used some sort of advanced hex to encourage the former to go anywhere near the latter; and was the original Uruk invented by Sauron, or did he just chance upon a stray cross-breed one day and think &quot;that looks like good battle fodder, I think I'll go and probe it a bit and see if it multiplies...&quot; ?
I'd love to know <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

"Even the very wise cannot see all ends"</p>

[HerenIstarion]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: trivial cross-breeding

not to start it over again, I will redirect you to Silmarillion subforum, where two topmost discussions concern orcs and their origins <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

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[burrahobbit]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: trivial cross-breeding

I would think he had Orc men rape Man women. On a side note, I am rather happy about this post. I have wanted to say &quot;Man women&quot; for some time now.

What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?</p>

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> uruk-hai

Agree, burra. It probably was so. I mean i had about the same picture in mind as GF and you. <img src=eek.gif ALT=":eek"> <img src=smile.gif ALT="">

<img src=roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> <img src=roll.gif ALT=":rollin">


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[gamegie]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: uruk-hai

Is that what an Uruk-Hai is? I thought that was the semi-orcs used by Saruman. By this I mean the orc-men raping the men-women, which gives semi orcs, orc like with human size and strength as well as some brains.......

Charming Humble Hobbit</p>

[Grey Fool]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: uruk-hai

You're right about Saruman using Uruk-Hais in his war campaign ( 3rd Age - 3010+). They were originally said to have been bred by Sauron long before Saruman ever deviated from the dealings of the White Council. The word 'Orc' comes from the word 'Uruk'(Rohan). <img src=wink.gif ALT="">

"Even the very wise cannot see all ends"</p>

[quam]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: uruk-hai

Or from the Sindarin Yrch.

My tolkien favorites are <a href="http://www.tolkientrail.com/"target="web">the Tolkientrail</A>(michael martinez loved it!), http://www.barrowdowns.com/The Barrow-downs</A> and its http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/forum</a> , <a href = "http://pub24.ezboard.com/bmountgundabad/">Mount Gundabad</A>, http://pub11.ezboard.com/bbagend16025/bag end</a> and <a href=http://pub20.ezboard.com/bdunedainscamp/>dunedains camp</a>,where I'm an RPG moderator
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[Grey Fool]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Uruk-Hai

Indeed. I quite like the idea that orcs were so named by the sound made during the reaction to first seeing
them. But the question still remains as to their scientific origins?

I'm intrigued...


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[Mister Underhill]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Uruk-Hai

This thread has been gnawing at me for days. My gut tells me that Uruks aren't just a simple cross-breeding of Men and Orcs. I don't have a lot of evidence to back this up, and I'm too tired (<img src=tired.gif ALT="/I"> ) to look for it now. Here's a couple of reasons, though, off the top of my head:

1) JRRT seems to make distinct references to &quot;half-orcs&quot; in a few places. In UT, &quot;orc-men&quot; (the sort of simple crossbreed that's been suggested, I deem) seem distinct from the Uruks when both types fight in the Battles of the Ford of Isen.

2) If the Uruks were produced via a good ol' fashioned eugenics program, where did Sauron get his Mannish breeding stock from? He couldn't produce a whole new (and distinct) species with only a Rohirrim maiden here and a Gondolinian farmer's daughter there.

These points are certainly open to debate, but something just doesn't feel right about Uruks being that simple. There's got to be some serious hex action at work in their creation, IMHO.

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[Grey Fool]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Specifics

Good points well constructed, Mr Underhill.

Magic would have doubtless been used to ensure the creation of the Uruks. It seemed a worthy investment and is likely to have been intended to further sretch the genetic range of the Orc, once the Uruk race had established itself in the evolutional fabric of Middle Earth (a mere matter of 2000 or so years, one imagines).

I too am rather tired right now <img src=tired.gif ALT="/I"> .
Once I've recovered I will endeavour to buy a copy of UT. Cannae wait to get started on that wee beauty!

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[Wizard of the Secret Fire]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Specifics

I wonder if somebody has found some more information in HomE?

I thought of the new movie version with some breeding in pods and it is said that the production team like to use HomE when they make changes, so can something in HomE lead to more than ordinary breeding?

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[Zoe]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> hrmm

Okay, just a bit of wild speculation, based on no text at all:

All science would seem to be magic to those who don't understand it.
Thus, following the path of wild speculation, couldn't the uruk be 'manufactured' using a modern genetics program? Test-tube uruks?

Just a thought.

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[Grey Fool]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> science

That way, Saruman could keep them all on PHIAL!

I'm so witty. <img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

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[Zoe]

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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/sting.jpg" align=absmiddle> re: science

Oh, cringe! <img src=wink.gif ALT="">



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