LotR2-TTT-Seq04

[alatar]

Fate looks certain but there’s nothing guaranteed
Want for nothing, but is nothing what you need?
Always pushing but you’re never satisfied
I did believe you ’til I found out that you lied. – Time Again (Asia)

The race chase continues through Rohan.

We get a flyover shot above the Uruks, who are maintaining three somewhat straight lines, unlike in the books where the marching was less disciplined. Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli continue to hustle after them, though the Uruks aren’t even that close.

Again I expected more green color on the screen – not Hobbiton Tellyland, but less rock - as by now we have to be in Rohan proper.

Oh my! We’re seconds into this sequence and the dwarf jokes have already begun. Now, assumedly, dwarves are a hardy folk, maybe the hardiest, and are able to bear great burdens over long distances. Think of Dáin II Ironfoot’s folk traveling to Thorin’s aid, or the dwarves that carried away anything of value after the Battle of Azanulbizar. Gimli is not much encumbered, but it is he who continually falls behind in the chase. Was this in the books, or is PJ adding something? And even if Gimli is the slowest of the three, need he be the one who (1) complains, (2) is the comic relief and (3) is shown in such distress? Slow and out of breath are not always linked. The other two natural sprinters could be way ahead of poor Gimli, yet be sucking twice the wind.

Why, PJ, why? In Gimli perhaps did you see yourself?

Legolas comments on the orcs’ speed, and why he is permitted a serious observation and not Gimli, I don’t know. We get more scenery shots of our three runners, and I can’t help but think that glaciers deposited those rocks as they retreated northward, even though it’s not exactly right.

We get back to the leaders in this race as they break camp for the night (orcs settling down for the evening?). The hobbit baggage is cast to the ground while the troop sorts out the business. Some orcs, kin to Gimli perhaps, need to “breathe.” The leader starts ordering the camp, where the first task is lighting a fire. Next, I suppose, he will assign tents and dig a latrine. We note that the orcs are very near a forest, and I’m guessing that it’s Fangorn.

PJ makes his way over to poor Merry, who now reconsiders having left the Shire. Here, not like in the books, Merry’s inclusion in the tale seems happenstance, or some fated event, as he meets up with Sam and Frodo in Farmer Maggot’s fields. If Farmer Maggot is actually Eru Iluvatar, then it is punishing Merry and Pip by sending them along with Frodo. If not…

Well, Merry, ya should have thought that out a little better in Rivendell, but still I’m glad that you’re at least (finally) showing some sense. Is Pippin actually smiling? Hopefully the sense will float over to Pip as well.

There’s that shirtless tree-chopping orc again! Now, as the orcs begin chopping enough wood to light a fire that can be seen across ME, the hobbits notice that something just ain’t quite right in them woods. They hear something, but what will it be? Whales this far inland? It’s possible, as at one time they had legs, and you just know how attractive the One Ring is (psst! I know that Merry or Pip doesn't have it).

Merry thinks that it’s the trees a talking, and he compares them to the Old Forest trees outside Buckland that purportedly came alive (well, all trees are technically alive, but I think that he means animated walking talking CG bores). At least we have a reference to the missing Forest and Bombadil, and that PJ didn’t make up something completely new.

The Uruks begin complaining about their conditions. Maggoty bread for three stinking days, he says.

And just what airline did you fly, sir?

Weren’t these same Uruks the uber-soldiers that could not tire, feel pain, question orders or what have you when Saruman launched them after the FotR? Guess all that running across ME (possible 500+ miles/ 800+ kilometers) just changes an orc. And the other orcs, lighter in skin and voice, agree that the victuals have been found wanting. Lacking strips of dried meat, the orcs look elsewhere for some protein.

The hobbits appear to be good eating, thought to taste like chicken - though the sense of having hauled them across Rohan so that they could be roasted (or not) on the outskirts of Fangorn is a bit silly, but these are orcs. Luckily for Merry and Pippin the Uruks are there, and they protect the small hobbits from being eaten, whole or in part. But wasn’t that an Uruk that started this conversation?

Next time, try tofu.

Still the Lugbúrz (?) orcs continue to obsess over the hobbits, and I’m not sure why. Was that a “Hannibal Lector” sound that I heard. Note that it’s possible, as I didn’t notice any of the smaller light skinned or hunchy head-jerking Mordorian orc breeds in the overview running shot, that this is Mauhúr and his boys, or is that some other orc band? Whatever.

We hear that the leader knows that these two hobbits could be carrying the Ring, but that’s not exactly what he says. Again why Saruman didn’t ship them directly to Lugbúrz is a mystery, and the only reason I can posit in the film is that the orcs couldn’t get across the Anduin, and so taking the Ring back to Saruman was the next best option. Fly Isengard airlines, with Fell Beasts leaving for points East on the hour.

Merry realizes that without the Ring, they will be on the menu. The leader begins lopping off heads to put sense in the others, as in the books. And, true to form, after killing something the big Uruk makes a joke and the orcs turn cannibal, eating the slain orc of different breed.

In all of the rendering of the supper, the hobbits are momentarily forgotten and so seek to escape. Hello orcs! They must be really hungry and so forget all of that nonsense that Saruman was spouting a movie ago. But the hobbits don’t get far as 'head-jerker orc' stomps on them, then taunts them. His statement regarding the saving of the hobbits is odd in that the Uruks are nearby and just seconds ago one just beheaded an orc for trying to bite the hobbits. Orcs.

And it’s well known that as soon as you say that ‘no one can save you now,’ that shortly thereafter, the saving will take place. Naturally, then, the orc is spitted and we hear the sound of horses.

The campers come under attack by the riders (presumably of Rohan), and Pip and Merry try to stay out of the way, as they may be mistaken for small snuffling orcs. The Uruks are quickly cut down, and I liked the Rohan bowman who could shoot both in front of and behind himself while riding. The scene ends with hooves threatening to flatten Pip (cheer!).

We jump back to the Three Hunters, learning a little weather wisdom from Legolas. A red dawn indicates (1) blood has been spilled that night or (2) the Wolverines are repelling the communists from Colorado. Regardless, I thought that it was “red at night, sailor’s delight; red in the morn, sailors be warned” (Note that the saying also appears in the Christian Bible). Having spent most of my life in a rusting steel town, I’ve witnessed many beautiful sunrises and sunsets, and many were reddened. The spew from the mills adds particles to the air, and this can impart more colors and hues than usual. The only air color that ever concerned me was green, as that usually was an indication that a train car carrying chlorine gas derailed, and that it would be a good idea to stay indoors a while until the sirens quieted down.

Suddenly, the three hunters pause as they hear the sound of horses. Éomer and his troop ride back up the trail of the orcs, presumably, and Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli step aside to get out of sight. Aren’t those elvish cloaks they’re wearing? As riders make to pass by, Aragorn calls out to them.

The riders turn and bear down upon their new target. Suddenly the three are ringed in spears, which when you see it seems a bit overkill and to me possibly dangerous to the riders. Éomer asks their business in the Riddermark, and Gimli responds with twice the bravado. Aragorn obviously wishes that Gimli was more polite, but at least he’s not acting foolish. Éomer dismounts to push back at Gimli, and then Legolas enters the testosteronefest. After that, we have about 1000 spears and assorted sharp pointy things pointed at practically everyone, and all that it would take to set off this local Dagor Dagorath is one horsefly’s sharp bite.

Aragorn’s calmer head prevails, and he starts making with the niceties. Éomer states that Théoden King is blind to both friend or foe (“…and, Aragorn, that means me”). He says that Saruman has claimed Rohan, and except for those still loyal, there isn’t much resistance.

Éomer then begins to set us up for a meeting with a “White Wizard,” hoping to confuse what we may later see. He looks directly at Legolas when he speaks of spies wiggling through all nets, and I’m not sure if he’s accusing the elf or not.

Legolas looks like he could give a hoot.

Aragorn tells them of their quest, to rescue the hobbits in the clutches of the Uruks, but to that Éomer has no good news. Hope has failed.

The horses, named as in the books, are given to the three. How Éomer went from "y’all are spies!" to "would you like a pony ride?" was a bit quick, but I guess we’re counting seconds here. Now, the meeting between Aragorn and Éomer went well enough, but I dislike that Éomer is riding from Edoras and not to it. But as he’s been banished, what’s the point of him going there? Still, he bearing swords beside Aragorn would have been a welcome scene, as I like Karl Urban. The Rohirrim leave, off to greener pastures north, leaving Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas to their tattered quest.

The three hunters gallop on, with no hope of finding their two friends alive, but still, they do what they must, and ride to the journey’s end.

[Farael]

About the Orcs:
I just checked the movie and about 15 minutes into it we see that a group of orcs from Lugbúrz (Mordor, right?) joining in.

Now, the orcs are not setting camp for the night... the 'guys' from Lugbúrz need 'a breather' and so big-mean Uruk-Hai orders a fire to be made. Then one of the Uruk-Hai does complain about the food but his comment is quickly taken up by the 'lesser' Lugbúrz orcs who quickly loose their heads about it (one of them quite literally). We never get a chance to see if they meant to camp for the night because soon enough the Riders come in.

About Gimli:

I agree that he is out of character with Book Gimli (even Tolkien's dwarves as a whole).... yet he is definetly in character with Movie Gimli. So I agree and disagree with you. I find this mis-interpretation (whether intentional or not) of Book Gimli annoying, yet PJ is consistent with it.

About Eomer possibly mistrusting Legolas:

You are right, he seems to be giving him a hard look when he talks about the spies... in his defense, Book Eomer seemed to be weary of Elves, or at least of Galadriel (whom if I'm not mistaken she calls a witch). Maybe this is PJ's way of showing so?

About Eomer suddenly becoming trusting:
I agree with you that given that the movie is already four hours long (extended edition) PJ did not have 15 minutes to spare for Aragorn to properly gain Eomer's trust.

About what I have not mentioned:

Well, I mostly agree, and found it very funny... you should come over to Mirth from time to time Alatar....

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Farael

About the Orcs:Now, the orcs are not setting camp for the night... the 'guys' from Lugbúrz need 'a breather' and so big-mean Uruk-Hai orders a fire to be made. Then one of the Uruk-Hai does complain about the food but his comment is quickly taken up by the 'lesser' Lugbúrz orcs who quickly loose their heads about it (one of them quite literally). We never get a chance to see if they meant to camp for the night because soon enough the Riders come in.

It looks like a 'camp' to me, and I have no problem with that, but it seems to soften the killers a bit. Halting for a breather is one thing, but suggestions of a camp makes the orcs appear more ordered and ordinary.

And to me there looks to be three types of orcs in the group (though not in the 'running' shot). Moria, Orthanc and Mordor?

I agree that he is out of character with Book Gimli (even Tolkien's dwarves as a whole).... yet he is definetly in character with Movie Gimli. So I agree and disagree with you. I find this mis-interpretation (whether intentional or not) of Book Gimli annoying, yet PJ is consistent with it.

I agree that Book-Gimli is not Flick-Gimli, yet I would disagree that PJ is consistent with the character. Compare Gimli in the boat with Legolas as the Dwarf reflects on the Queen's gift with the running dwarf jokes. Where I think that PJ is consistent is in the downward trend for this character (with the exception of one scene, which I will note when it appears).

You are right, he seems to be giving him a hard look when he talks about the spies... in his defense, Book Eomer seemed to be weary of Elves, or at least of Galadriel (whom if I'm not mistaken she calls a witch). Maybe this is PJ's way of showing so?

Nice observation, but his conversion from foe to friend is a bit fast, and so why include the thought? Is PJ trying to squeeze more stuff in than time warrants? I have some scenes that he could cut that would allow for more time...

[Farael]

About the running shot:
Ok, just looked again. On the first shot of the Orcs running, you can only see the bigger ones (Isengard's) but on the second, when they sort of fly over them you can somewhat tell that there are two types. The Orcs from Isengard form the front rows and somewhat keep themselves in three columns, while smaller orcs (Mordor?) run on the back of the column and sort of bunch up, not keeping ranks.

About the third group of orcs,
would you tell me when you see them? I can only see two groups, the big ones and small ones. It might be a cross-over with the book. If I'm not mistaken, there are three groups of orcs, the Uruk-Hai that want to take the hobbits to Isengard, the ones from Mordor that want to take them to... well, yeah... and the ones from Moria who want revenge for the orcs the fellowship killed.

About setting up camp
I beg to differ, I still think they are just starting a fire. It might be another cross over with the book, in which we know they stop because the Riders have corraled them. Anyhow, the Riders come in before they get a chance to really do anything that will give us evidence either way.

About Gimli
Let me make an ammendment... I think Gimli is kept consistent over the last two movies of the triology.

About the Rohirrim and the ring of spears (which I forgot to comment on last time around)
I am not a great medieval-times warrior, but I can see the sense in doing such thing. If you are standing close to a bunch of guys who have absolutely no way out, you want to keep them at a spear's lenght from you.

I mean, should the strangers feel that they are going to die anyway, they might charge at anyone who is unprepared and try to take as many down as they can. At such close range, using an arrow would not be too smart (in spite of what Legolas does) given that if you have your spear handy, you can give them a little (fatal) poke even before they manage to draw and aim. At the same time, to kill someone with a sword you need to get relatively close to them... much closer than a spear's lenght anyway.

So maybe it is a logical thing to do after all? as I said, I know nothing about medieval warfare, and I am making an explanation based on what I see in the movie... Personally, and given that we know they have (Very good) archers, I would say you make the ring big enough for the defenders to have time to get their spears at the ready and aim at the strangers with your archers. Same effect, even less chance of giving them an oportunity to hurt you. But then, it's also less dramatic, and thus less useful for movie purposes

A parting shot

Originally Posted by Alatar

Nice observation, but his conversion from foe to friend is a bit fast, and so why include the thought? Is PJ trying to squeeze more stuff in than time warrants? I have some scenes that he could cut that would allow for more time...

(my emphasis)

Do those scenes include a certain dwarf making certain comments about running long distances?

[alatar]

Here's that orc wood chopper to which I referred.

Why orcs have to remove their shirts/armor before swinging an axe is beyond me.

**Note that the first image was captured in "The Burning of the Westfold" whereas the second is from "Night Camp at Fangorn."

[alatar]

Nice post, Farael, and well organized (unlike mine ).

Originally Posted by Farael

About the third group of orcs,
would you tell me when you see them? I can only see two groups, the big ones and small ones. It might be a cross-over with the book. If I'm not mistaken, there are three groups of orcs, the Uruk-Hai that want to take the hobbits to Isengard, the ones from Mordor that want to take them to... well, yeah... and the ones from Moria who want revenge for the orcs the fellowship killed.

To me there are three distinct types:

• the Uruks, as denoted by armor, long hair, White Hand insignia, taller, etc,

• the Mordorians, best seen when the Uruks come upon the "you're late" group of orcs, and also the same "what about their legs?" guy who is more hunched over, does that quirky head-jerking thing and is a shade of brown, and doesn't seem the warrior type,

• the Morians, who are smaller, lighter gray and are like the nasally "Ya!" orc who I think makes a try at the hobbits and so becomes 'the other white meat'...

I'll try to capture some images for comparison.

I beg to differ, I still think they are just starting a fire. It might be another cross over with the book, in which we know they stop because the Riders have corraled them. Anyhow, the Riders come in before they get a chance to really do anything that will give us evidence either way.

Again to me it's too organized. Are they cold? Are they going to cook some maggoty toast? Why would they want to give away their location, attracting Rohirrim like moths? In the book, the fires were 'watch-fires' and I'm not sure who set them (I'll see what I can dig up on my CDs). My guess is that PJ was trying to hammer home the message "orcs chop trees" and had to devise a way to get that in. "Have them make a fire or something...we just have to set up the treeslayers for retribution later from the Ents."

About the Rohirrim and the ring of spears (which I forgot to comment on last time around)
I am not a great medieval-times warrior, but I can see the sense in doing such thing. If you are standing close to a bunch of guys who have absolutely no way out, you want to keep them at a spear's lenght from you.

I understand what you're saying, and would have thought it odd for a medieval warrior to spend so much time on the internet while other wonders abound , but my point is that you have everyone in very close proximity. If I were a spellcaster, or had one of those spikey bombs that the Uruks will use later, I'm taking out the whole troop. And though I'm sure that these are riders of many summers, still, one guy in the back sneezes, and everyone, being spooked already enough by an Elf, a Man and a natural sprinter, jumps forward, and I'm guessing that the casualties would number more than three.

Do those scenes include a certain dwarf making certain comments about running long distances?

There are more horrid scenes on the way, to be sure.

[JennyHallu]

Fire can be used as a weapon. Perhaps they hoped that the horses of the Rohirrim could be frightened or stayed with fire.

Maybe they were just orkses, and not terribly bright.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Fire can be used as a weapon. Perhaps they hoped that the horses of the Rohirrim could be frightened or stayed with fire.

Maybe they were just orkses, and not terribly bright.

Good point but... I Think in the movie they were not aware of the Rohirrim.

[alatar]

But the orcs knew that they were being pursued by 'manflesh,' and that's why they double-timed it across the plains of Rohan (instead of taking a more leasurely pace, stopping at times for picnics and croquet).

The wild men and orcs burn the village huts, and we'll see that the orcs will use the 'fire of Orthanc' to breach the wall at Helm's Deep, and later the siege of Gondor will have fire launched from catapults, but I don't think that the orcs use fire for less lethal purposes.

[Essex]

I can handle Gimli's comic relief here (just)

I love scenes where the narration stays close to the book. The first scene between Eomer and the 3 hunters is a good example.

all the discussion above on whether the rohirrim would actually enclose the 3 hunters is lost on me when I see the work of Genius and Beauty to actually get it to work on screen. It still makes me sit up EVERY time I see it. Superb horse training and choreography from PJs Horse People!

Great acting from Karl Urban btw.

Bit that grates with me is that the movie hobbits didn't go through the Old forest and meet up with Tom now! Once Pippin (or is it Merry) mentions the 'stories of the Old Forest' it throws me out of ME and back in the real world thinking about the commentary on LOTR where Phillipa Boyens states "you can imagine that the hobbits did go through the old forest and meet tom" as the hobbits stand by the gate of Bree. But one movie on we have Pippin dispelling that possibility. Grrrrr!

[Farael]

Alatar:
Good points about the orcs and fire. Now that I think about it, fire in the movie can associated with burning down, torching, destroying, blowing up.... and all those 'qualities' go along with 'orcs'.

Yet there is one instance in which fire can be associated with "protection". Namely, when Aragorn fights the Nazghul off. He uses fire to hurt them, and in the books we hear that they don't really like fire.

Maybe "fire" in the movie is not necessarily an orc thing, but rather a fighting device.

Also, about the different kinds of orcs, I see what you mean... but in the movie we don't have any clues about a third group of orcs, so maybe it's just a pale mordorian orc with a very nasal voice? Yet your guess is as good as mine... but I'm willing to give PJ a break on this one.

Essex
I hope it does not sound as if I am trying to find reasons not to enjoy the movie... to be honest, I could watch it time and time again and I still won't get tired. I have probably seen Theoden's "speech" before they charge to break the siege in Minas Tirith a couple dozen times as that scene still makes me shiver.

I agree that the scene with Eomer, the Rohirrim and the hunters is masterfully done. I think the acting is good and the ring of spears is at least plausible ... and with regards to Eomer's going from foe to friend quite easily, while it's "technically wrong" I can see why it was needed to do.

On the other hand, I don't think that Merry talking about the Old Forest is an 'anticlimax' of sorts. I think that it both gives hints about the upcoming Ents (and so, it makes the talking, walking and not very hasty tree less of a shock and more of a surprise*) and it's one of the points in which those of us who have read the books realize what they were talking about and what would soon come up.

*: What I mean by 'less of a shock and more of a surprise' is that it's less of a "why in the Lord's name is that tree walking?" reaction and more of a "wow, that's amazing!" reaction

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Farael

Good points about the orcs and fire. Now that I think about it, fire in the movie can associated with burning down, torching, destroying, blowing up.... and all those 'qualities' go along with 'orcs'.

Yet there is one instance in which fire can be associated with "protection". Namely, when Aragorn fights the Nazghul off. He uses fire to hurt them, and in the books we hear that they don't really like fire.

Maybe "fire" in the movie is not necessarily an orc thing, but rather a fighting device.

My point is that, in the film and maybe even in the books, fire is used by the enemy for evil purposes, like the fire that the Morians use cut off the escape of the FotR. I still think that the only reason that these orcs have to build a fire is to kill trees. And think even about that. You've been running a good ways across ME. Your leader orders you to get a fire going. Why not pick up all of the dead wood and start a fire that way? Why use green wood, which is much harder to get and to kindle? Are the orcs that desperate to get a tan?

Also, about the different kinds of orcs, I see what you mean... but in the movie we don't have any clues about a third group of orcs, so maybe it's just a pale mordorian orc with a very nasal voice? Yet your guess is as good as mine... but I'm willing to give PJ a break on this one.

I'm glad that PJ included the different tribes, right from the books, and I quibble regarding the three tribes not 'running,' as the bigger issue still is the direction that the orcs are running, which should be southeast.

[Lathriel]

I really like the way the sun rises when Legolas delivers his line "A red sun rises..." Its really neat the way the rays silhouette the actors. (I hope you understand what I'm trying to say)

I don't mind all of Gimli's jokes, this one I am okay with since it also provides a little bit of info about the dawarves and I do think he actually says something similar in the books.

Didn't Andy Serkis do all the orc voices for the camping scene?

The way the three hunters are encircled by the Rohirrim is pretty neat. I love the costumes.

I didn't mind that the plains of Rohan weren't as grassy. If they had been too grassy it would have reminded me of the prairie and North America. But, since it is so rocky it stays more like ME for me because it is more alien for me.

[Boromir88]

I felt as if this is where Gimli's character goes down hill. Gimli served as a comic relief in FOTR, but I never lost track of who a dwarf was, or I never felt like Gimli wasn't a dwarf. I felt like Jackson did a good job of having Gimli be a comedic character, yet I never lost the sense that he was a dwarf. But, as we progress into TTT and ROTK this dramatically changes, and I disagree with the use of Gimli's comedy as a "positive" for the movie. When threads start popping up about Gimli being a useless character and serving no purpose in the Fellowship, he's just slow and prevents Aragorn and Legolas from doing anything, I think Jackson did something wrong with Gimli.

Also, I think Grishnakh was mistreated in the movies as well. As he seems more driven to eat the hobbits than him being intellegent and knowing about the Ring. First off this displays the cunningness of Pippin in getting Grishnakh to believe that he has the Ring, and this shows the intellegence of Grishnakh, and not all Orcs are mindless cannibals. Which is how I felt about them at this part in TTT.

The scene done with Aragorn and Company with Eomer, there's really nothing I can complain about, nor anything I can praise. They were done solidly (in my view) and that's really all I can say about them. (I still find it very fun when Eomer loses his sword and he even looks at it as it falls to the ground...I crack up. )

[doug*platypus]

Also, I think Grishnakh was mistreated in the movies as well. As he seems more driven to eat the hobbits than him being intellegent and knowing about the Ring. First off this displays the cunningness of Pippin in getting Grishnakh to believe that he has the Ring, and this shows the intellegence of Grishnakh, and not all Orcs are mindless cannibals. Which is how I felt about them at this part in TTT.

Good call! I had the same feeling when first watching TTT. Why PJ left out Grishnákh's Ring hunt I have no idea. It would have made the orcs more believable as characters, and evil in a more cunning way. But I suppose since they're just the evil guys' cannon fodder, PJ didn't really give a d@mn about giving them an extra dimension. You have to go to the book to read more about the real orcs, such as Shagrat and Gorbag.

The battle of the riders with the orcs is pretty good, although it's quite hard to see anything. Throughout the movies, it's pretty much standard that quick camera moves and wobbles make it difficult to see blow-by-blow what is going on. I prefer static camera positions in fights, so you can actually see what is going on, a la most kung fu flicks or the lightsaber duels in Star Wars. The rider with the bow was really, really cool.

The spear ring seemed a little staged, but quite a nice looking shot, and yes as someone has already said, well done on the part of the horse wranglers and riders. I wonder how many takes it took? Or how many Tooks it takes... speaking of which, I was so scared when Pippin was about to be crushed by a horse. I thought that they were going to kill off one of the Fellowship by having him squished. On the lighter side, I can imagine alatar giggling with glee as it seems Pippin's fate is secured! Oh, yeah, back to the spear ring. It loses a bit of its potency as Rohan has already been set up as opposing the orcs and Saruman, so we already know that these guys are goodies, whereas in the book we were not so sure:

"What do you know of these horsemen, Aragorn?" he said. "Do we sit here waiting for sudden death?"

Regarding the shirtless orc tree chopper(s), perhaps PJ just wanted to show that they could do orcs without their shirts on. They look pretty good... well, pretty disgusting, but you know what I mean!

OK, just a short post from me. Must dash...