The End of the Third Age

[ArcusCalion]

This is the first draft of the chapter The End of the Third Age.

This chapter is a thoroughly mixed bag of sources, and so there is no base text. Because of this, I have marked every instance of any text used, so as to be easy to follow.

The markings are:
FY-HL-xx for all the headlines for the Fading Years.
ETA-SL-xx for all expansions and changes to the narrative.

Some conventions of my writing:

Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks
{example} = text that should be deleted
[example] = normalized text, normally only used for general changes, as well as changes which are a part of replacement that is not grammatical.
Underlined Text = text changed for grammatical reasons in the process of combining and inserting and removing.
<source example> = additions with source information
...... = This section of the paragraph is unchanged from the source.

FY-HL-22 < THE END OF THE THIRD AGE>

ETA-SL-01 <ORP Now all these things were achieved for the most part .... for he knew whence he came and whither at last he would return ETA-SL-02 <Appendix B {For}, for Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth>.
‘Take now this Ring,’ he said; 'for thy labors and thy cares .... valor of old in a world that grows chill. ETA-SL-03 <The Istari It was entrusted to me only to keep secret, and here upon the West-shores it is idle; but I deem that in days ere long to come it should be in nobler hands than mine.> But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores, guarding the Havens until the last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.’
White was that ship and long was it a-building, ...... And latest of all the Keepers of the Three Rings rode to the Sea.>
ETA-SL-04 <Letter to Milton Waldman Frodo {cannot}could not be healed. For the preservation of the Shire he {has}had sacrificed himself, even in health, and {has}had no heart to enjoy it. Sam {has}had to choose between love of master and of wife. In the end he {goes}went with Frodo on a last journey. At night in the woods, where Sam first met Elves on the outward journey, they {meet the}met a twilit cavalcade from Rivendell. The Elves and the Three Rings, and Gandalf (Guardian of the Third Age) {are}were going to the Grey Havens, to set sail for the West, never to return. Bilbo {is}was with them. To Bilbo and Frodo the special grace {is}was granted to go with the Elves they loved ETA-SL-05 {- an Arthurian ending, in which it is, of course, not made explicit whether this is an 'allegory' of death, or a mode of healing and restoration leading to a return}. They {ride}rode to the Grey Havens, and {take}took the Ship ETA-SL-06 <ORP that Círdan had made ready>: Gandalf with the Red Ring, Elrond (with the Blue) and the greater part of his household, and Galadriel of Lórien with the White Ring, and with them {depart}departed Bilbo and Frodo.>
ETA-SL-07 <ORP In the twilight of autumn {it}the ship sailed out of Mithlond, until the seas of the Bent World fell away beneath it, and the winds of the round sky troubled it no more, and borne upon the high airs above the mists of the world it passed into the Ancient West, and an end was come for the Eldar of story and of song.>

ETA-SL-08 <Appendix A Théoden {He} is called Théoden Ednew in the lore of Rohan, .... Then a new line was begun.>
ETA-SL-09 <HoME 12: TY4 {It is said also that in}In 3020 Éowyn Éomund's daughter wedded Faramir, last Steward of Gondor and first Prince of Ithilien, in the king's house of Rohan. ETA-SL-10 <Appendix A In the War of the Ring Théodred fell in battle with Saruman at the Crossings of Isen. Therefore before ...... and of Imrahil of Dol Amroth; and he rode often to Gondor.> {Éomer her brother received the kingship upon the field of battle from Théoden ere he died.} In ETA-SL-11 {3022}[3021] (or Fourth Age 1) he wedded Lothíriel daughter of Imrahil of Dol Amroth, and his reign over Rohan was long and blessed, and he was known as Éomer Éadig. ETA-SL-12 <Appendix A Their son Elfwine the Fair ruled after him.
In Éomer's day in the Mark men ..... flew in many winds until Éomer grew old.>
King Elessar and Queen Arwen reigned long and in great blessedness.> ETA-SL-13 <Appendix B Samwise {is}was elected Mayor of the Shire.> ETA-SL-14 <Appendix B King Elessar {issues}issued an edict that Men {are}were not to enter the Shire, and he {makes}made it a Free Land under the protection of the Northern Scepter.> ETA-SL-15 <Appendix A Our King, we {call}called him; and when he {comes}came north to his house in Annúminas restored and {stays}stayed for a while by Lake Evendim, then everyone in the Shire {is}was glad. But he {does}did not enter this land and {binds}bound himself by the law that he {has}had made, that none of the Big People shall pass its borders. But he {rides}rode often with many fair people to the Great Bridge, and there he {welcomes}welcomed his friends, and any others who {wish}wished to see him; and some {ride}rode away with him and {stay}stayed in his house as long as they {have}had a mind. Thain Peregrin {has}had been there many times; and so {has}had Master Samwise the Mayor. ETA-SL-16 <Appendix B He {gives}gave the Star of the Dúnedain to Master Samwise, and> {His}his daughter Elanor the Fair {is}was made one of the maids of Queen Evenstar.> ETA-SL-17 <Appendix B Meriadoc, called the Magnificent, {becomes}became Master of Buckland. Great gifts {are}were sent to him by King Éomer and the Lady Éowyn of Ithilien. Peregrin {becomes}became the Took and Thain. King Elessar {makes}made the Thain, the Master, and the Mayor Counsellors of the North-kingdom.>
ETA-SL-18 <Appendix B On September 22 of Shire Reckoning 1482, Master Samwise {rides}rode out from Bag End. He {comes}came to the Tower Hills, and {is}was last seen by Elanor, to whom he {gives}gave the Red Book afterwards kept by the Fairbairns. Among them the tradition is handed down from Elanor that Samwise passed the Towers, and went to the Grey Havens. and passed over Sea, last of the Ring-bearers.>
ETA-SL-19 <Appendix B In the spring of the year 1484 a message came from Rohan to Buckland that King Éomer .... laid in Rath Dínen among the great of Gondor.>
ETA-SL-20 <Appendix A: Tale of Aragorn and Arwen The Third Age ended thus .... all that she had gained was lost.
As Queen of Elves and Men ..... Then Aragorn said to Arwen:
‘At last, Lady Evenstar, fairest .... time of payment draws near.’
Arwen knew well what he intended, ..... people that live by your word?’ she said.
‘Not before my time,’ ..... son is a man full-ripe for kingship.’
Then going to the House of the Kings ..... that she had taken upon her.
‘Lady Undómiel,’ said Aragorn, ‘the hour ...... Now, therefore, I will sleep.
‘I speak no comfort to you, for there ...... or else to abide the Doom of Men.’
‘Nay, dear lord,’ she said, ‘that choice ..... One to Men, it is bitter to receive.’
‘So it seems,’ he said. ‘But let us ..... and beyond them is more than memory, Farewell!’
‘Estel, Estel!’ she cried, and with that even ..... in glory undimmed before the breaking of the world. ETA-SL-21 <Appendix B It is said that the beds of Meriadoc and Peregrin were set beside the bed of the great king.>
But Arwen went forth from the House, ..... also was gone, and the land was silent.
There at last when the mallorn-leaves ..... bloom no more east of the Sea.>
ETA-SL-22 <TY 4 Of Eldarion son of Elessar it was foretold that he should rule a great realm, and that it should endure for a hundred generations of Men after him, that is until a new age brought in again new things; and from him should come the kings of many realms in long days after. But if this foretelling spoke truly, none now can say, for Gondor and Arnor are no more; and even the chronicles of the House of Elessar and all their deeds and glory are lost.>
ETA-SL-23 <Appendix A But when King Elessar gave up his life Legolas {followed at last the desire of his heart and sailed over Sea.} ETA-SL-24 <Appendix B built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf. And when that ship passed an end was come in the Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.>

ETA-SL-25 <Appendix A Here follows one of the last notes in the Red Book

We have heard tell that Legolas took Gimli ...... More cannot be said of this matter.>

FY-HL-22: I know we rejected the subheading for last chapter, but since it was still used in a draft, I did not reuse FY-HL-21, and decided to give this one a new number. The title is, I think, self explanatory, and comes from the rejected LotR book titles.

ETA-SL-01: Here we finally give the story of Gandalf's arrival at the Havens as told in retrospect, which I think we should keep in this location, since this is when Tolkien intended to give it. I have taken it from Of the Rings of Power.

ETA-SL-02: This sentence from the version of the event given in Appendix B is not found in the ORP version, so I brought it in.

ETA-SL-03: This sentence from the version of the event given in The Istari from UT is not found in the ORP version, so I brought it in.

ETA-SL-04: We turn to the Waldman Letter in order to close out the story of Frodo and Bilbo. I did not include the last scene of Sam returning home since I thought it was too personal for the overarching narrative, but I suppose it could be included if that is deemed better.

ETA-SL-05: I removed the comments of Tolkien.

ETA-SL-06: This detail is worth bringing in, so that we keep the symmetry with the ORP version.

ETA-SL-07: Here we give the last portion of Of the Rings of Power, and conclude the narrative of the Eldar in Middle-earth: a bittersweet moment to be sure!

ETA-SL-08: Here we return to the story of Men, with the addition from the Kings of Rohan about Theoden, which was removed from the chapter which was then called The Stewards but is now called The Quest for Erebor. I think it works well here.

ETA-SL-09: Here I switch to the text in the Tale of Years draft from HoME 12. This is a shorter account than that of Appendix A, but it contains some relevant details.

ETA-SL-19: Here we insert the bit from Eomer's entry in the Kings of Rohan dealing with ascendance to Kingship and Eowyn's prowess.

ETA-SL-11: This was the date in the earlier draft, but in the final version it was changed slightly, so I updated it. This detail is not given explicitly in the text of Appendix A, so I thought it was worth including.

ETA-SL-12: Here we switch back to Appendix A. It describes the reign of Eomer in Rohan, and then transitions back to the Tale of Years text briefly as a segue into the Aragorn and Arwen narrative.

ETA-SL-13: This detail needs to be given before the end of the next few, since it references Aragorn making 'The Mayor, the Thain, and the Master' into counsellors of the North Kingdom. By that point we are supposed to know that The Mayor is Sam, so we need to give it before that point. Here seems as good a place as any.

ETA-SL-14: This detail is also needed before the next additon, which references this decree.

ETA-SL-15: Here we give the last bit from the North Kingdom narrative in Appendix A, which deals with Aragorn's reign. I changed the tense to past tense, since right after this we recount the death of Aragorn, so he cannot be referenced in the present tense.

ETA-SL-16: This detail from Appendix B is worth giving.

ETA-SL-17: This piece of info from Appendix B is also worth giving for its own sake.

ETA-SL-18: Here we relate the passing of Sam over the sea, as well as the transmission of the Red Book, taken from Appendix B and edited for proper tenses.

ETA-SL-19: Here we relate the deaths of Merry and Pippin and Eomer, and set the stage for Aragorn's death.

ETA-SL-20: Here we give the last portion of The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen. (Sidenote: this scene is one of my favorite moments in the legendarium; it's so sad!)

ETA-SL-21: I thought this detail worth giving, but I did not want to give it before Aragorn's death was related. This placing feels somewhat awkward, but I could find no better spot.

ETA-SL-22: This portion of the Tale of Years draft contains info not given elsewhere, briefly mentioning the reign of Eldarion, and setting the stage for The New Shadow (which will follow this chapter).

ETA-SL-23: Here we return to the text of Appendix A briefly as the best means of transitioning from the Aragorn info to this new info about Legolas and Gimli.

ETA-SL-24: The account in Appendix B is much fuller and more detailed, so I used that one.

ETA-SL-25: This note from Durin's Folk belongs here, as the last chronological event, as well as 'one of the last notes in the Red Book.' With that, we come to an end of our single, unified tale of the History of Middle Earth, except for the fragment of The New Shadow which follows this.

[Findegil]

FY-HL-22: I am not happy with this title as the text contains much that actually happen in the Fourth Age.

ETA-SL-08 & ETA-SL-10: These addition do not realy fit here. I would integrat them in the chatper The War of the Ring. See the appropriate thread for information of where and how I would place them. And I would add a part about the extantion of Rohan. The text here would than read:

… and an end was come for the Eldar of story and of song.>

ETA-SL-09<HoME 12: TY4{It is said also that in}In 3020 Éowyn Éomund's daughter wedded Faramir, last Steward of Gondor and first Prince of Ithilien, in the king's house of Rohan. Éomer her brother received the kingship upon the field of battle from Théoden ere he died. ETA-SL-10b<Appendix A {Éomer}He became a great king, and being young when he succeeded Théoden he reigned for sixty-five years, longer than all their kings before him save Aldor the Old. In the War of the Ring he made the friendship of King Elessar, and of Imrahil of Dol Amroth; and he rode often to Gondor.> In ETA-SL-11{3022}[3021] (or Fourth Age 1) he wedded Lothíriel daughter of Imrahil of Dol Amroth, and his reign over Rohan was long and blessed, and he was known as Éomer Éadig. ETA-SL-12<Appendix A Their son Elfwine the Fair ruled after him.
In Éomer's day in the Mark men had peace who wished for it ETA-SL-12.3<The Making of Appendix A {In Éomer's time}and the realm was extended west beyond the Gap of Rohan as far as the Greyflood and the sea-shores between that river and the Isen, and north to the borders of Lorien, {and his men and horses multiplied exceedingly.}> , and the people increased both in the dales and the plains, and their horses multiplied. In Gondor the King Elessar now ruled, ...

ETA-SL-17: This must come earlier even before the visit of Aragon in the North. So I placed it after ETA-SL-14.

ETA-SL-14.1 to ETA-SL-14.9: I think we should add version 2 of the Epilogue to the LotR. Tolkien was talked out of using it, but he never rejected its content. Therefore I think it fits very well the goal of the project to include it here. I will give my take at it here and than add comments on my editing.

King Elessar and Queen Arwen reigned long and in great blessedness.> ETA-SL-13<Appendix B Samwise {is}was elected Mayor of the Shire.> ETA-SL-14<Appendix B King Elessar {issues}issued an edict that Men {are}were not to enter the Shire, and he {makes}made it a Free Land under the protection of the Northern Scepter.> ETA-SL-17b<Appendix B Meriadoc, called the Magnificent, {becomes}became Master of Buckland. Great gifts {are}were sent to him by King Éomer and the Lady Éowyn of Ithilien. Peregrin {becomes}became the Took and Thain. King Elessar {makes}made the Thain, the Master, and the Mayor Counsellors of the North-kingdom.>
ETA-SL-14.1<Epilogue
One evening in the March of 1436 Master Samwise ...
...
...
...
... There was little Ham, {[and there was Daisy still in her cradle >] }and Daisy, and there was Primrose still in her cradle.[Footnote to the text: {This emendation was made on the typescript only. }In 'The Longfather-tree of Master Samwise' {in Appendix C }Daisy Gamgee was born in 1433 and Primrose in 1435; Bilbo Gamgee was born in the year of {the Epilogue}this Episode, 1436, and was followed by three further children, making thirteen in all.]
Now Sam was 'having a bit of quiet'. ... To her, by gift if not by inheritance, a memory of elven-grace had descended.[Footnote to the text: ETA-SL-14.2{A footnote to the record of the birth of Elanor in The Tale of Years states: '}She became known as "the Fair" because of her beauty; many said that she looked more like an elf-maid than a hobbit. She had golden hair, which had been very rare in the Shire; but two others of Samwise's daughters were also golden-haired, and so were many of the children born at this time.{' Cf. the reference in 'The Grey Havens' to the golden-haired children born in the Shire in the year 1420 (RK p. 303; see p. 112, note 1).}]
'What are you doing, Sam-dad dear?' she said at last. 'You said you were going to rest, and I hoped you would talk to me.'
'Just a moment, Elanorellë, said Sam,ETA-SL-14.3<Epilogue note 14 sucking his pen-holder> as she came and set her arms about him and peered over his shoulder.
...
...
...
Moria: I have heard no news. Maybe the foretelling about Durin is not for our time. ETA-SL-14.4{(15)} Dark places still need a lot of cleaning up. I guess it will take a lot of trouble and daring deeds yet to root out the evil creatures from the halls of Moria. ...
...
...
...
... 'But I think I do now. He knew that Lady Arwen would stay, but that Galadriel would leave him. ETA-SL-14.5{(16)} I think it was very sad for him. And for you, dear Sam-dad.' Her hand felt for his, and his brown hand clasped her slender fingers. 'For your treasure went too. I am glad Frodo of the Ring saw me, but I wish I could remember seeing him.'
'It was sad, Elanorellë,' said Sam, kissing her hair. 'It was, but {[}it{]} isn't now. ...
...
...
...
'No, dear,' said Sam. 'But he's coming north again, as he hasn't done since you was a mite. ETA-SL-14.6{(17)} But now his house is ready.
He won't come into the Shire, because he's given orders that no Big Folk are to enter the land again after those Ruffians, and he won't break his own rules. But he will ride to the Bridge. And he's sent a very special invitation to every one of us, every one by name.'
Sam went to a drawer, unlocked it, and took out a scroll, and slipped off its case. It was written in two columns with fair silver letters upon black. He unrolled it, and set a candle beside it on the desk, so that Elanor could see it. ETA-SL-14.7 <

> ETA-SL-14.8 <HoMe 9; Epilogue; transcript from page III

> 'How splendid!' she cried. ...
...
...
...
'Not a bit more than I do, Sam-dad, Perhael-adar ETA-SL-14.9{(18)} dearest,' said Elanor. 'But it says the second of April, only a week today!{(19)} When shall we start? We ought to be getting ready. What shall we wear?'
...
...
...
... But even as he did so, he heard suddenly, deep and unstilled, the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.>
ETA-SL-15<Appendix A Our King, we {call}called him; ... Thain Peregrin {has}had been there many times; and so {has}had Master Samwise the Mayor. ETA-SL-16<Appendix B He {gives}gave the Star of the Dúnedain to Master Samwise, and> {His}his daughter Elanor the Fair {is}was made one of the maids of Queen Evenstar.> ETA-SL-16.2<Appendix B In the year 1451 Shire reckoning Elanor the Fair {marries}married Fastred of Greenholm on the Far Downs.{
1452 The} In the following year the Westmarch, from the Far Downs to the Tower Hills (Emyn Beraid), {is}was added to the Shire by the gift of the King. Many hobbits remove to it.{
1454 Elfstan Fairbairn, son of Fastred and Elanor, is born.
1455 Master Samwise becomes Mayor for the fifth time.} At {his}the request of Master Samwise, the Mayor the Thain {makes}made Fastred Warden of Westmarch. Fastred and Elanor {make}made their dwelling at Undertowers on the Tower Hills, where their descendants, the Fairbairns of the Towers, dwelt for many generations.>
ETA-SL-18<Appendix B On September {22}the twenty-second of Shire Reckoning 1482, Master Samwise {rides}rode out from Bag End. ...

Some comments on the editing:
ETA-SL-14.1: I do not think we need a title for this, and I can’t think of any fitting.

ETA-SL-14.2: The Footnote i in origin from Appendix B, but it fit here well.

ETA-SL-14.3: I restored the original reading as Christopher Tolkien suggest that the change was unintentional.

ETA-SL-14.4, ETA-SL-14.5, ETA-SL-14.6 & ETA-SL-14.9: Editorial notes removed.

ETA-SL-14.7: The Facsimile at least we must add, otherwise all the talk is without reference.

ETA-SL-14.8: I think should as well add the transcripts as they make the letter readable for all. I reconstructed the reading of the third version from the text of the first and teh notes given for the third.

ETA-SL-16.2: As we have given all this events from the Shire so much room we should not miss the Westmarch.

ETA-SL-23 to ETA-SL-25: I would rather weave thes a bit more together to avoid redundance:

ETA-SL-23b<Appendix A But when King Elessar gave up his life Legolas followed at last the desire of his heart and{ sailed over Sea.} ETA-SL-24<Appendix B built a grey ship in Ithilien, and sailed down Anduin and so over Sea; and with him, it is said, went Gimli the Dwarf{.} ETA-SL-25b<Appendix A{We have heard tell that Legolas took Gimli} Glóin's son{ with him} because of their great friendship, greater than any that has been between Elf and Dwarf. If this is true, then it is strange indeed: that a Dwarf should be willing to leave Middle-earth for any love, or that the Eldar should receive him, or that the Lords of the West should permit it. But it is said that Gimli went also out of desire to see again the beauty of Galadriel; and it may be that she, being mighty among the Eldar, obtained this grace for him. More cannot be said of this matter.> And when that ship passed an end was come in the Middle-earth of the Fellowship of the Ring.>

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

FY-HL-22: I had a similar thought, but I can see no other title which would work. Any other suggestions are welcome. I think it will be ok tho, since the end of the Third Age (the passing of Elrond) is included in this chapter.

I agree to all the rest, a very well-organized and cogent post. As always, you have caught much that I missed!

Why did you remove the bit at the end of the English text of Aragorn's letter, where he says the date in the Rivendell months?

[ArcusCalion]

After reading through the draft including the Epilogue, I think we may now include the portion of the Waldman Letter that talks about Sam after Frodo departs, since we are going to spend so much time with him later on in the chapter. Therefore, I added this addition after ETA-SL-07:

ETA-SL-07.5 <Letter to Milton Waldman But Sam standing stricken on the stone quay {sees}saw only the white ship slip down the grey estuary and fade into the darkling West. He {stays}stayed long unmoving listening to the sound of the Sea on the shores of the world. Then he {rides}rode home; his wife {welcomes}welcomed him to the firelight and his first child, and he {says}said simply 'Well, I'{ve come}m back'.>

I changed what Sam says to match the text of the published Lord of the Rings.

In addition, now that the Epilogue breaks up the paragraph, ETA-SL-15's reference to 'Our King' has no antecedent. Therefore I would change it like so:

ETA-SL-15 <Appendix A Our King, we {call}called {him}King Elessar; and when .....

I think this is enough.

[Findegil]

I agree to both.

About the end of the transcription: That’s how I understood what was written in the note concerning the differences between the transcript of version I and III of the letter. I did not cross check with the elvish signs. But doing so, I found in Vinyar Tengwar #29 that I missed a number so the end must read: 'February, 6341 [=1436]'

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Noted! Thank you

[Findegil]

Okay here is the next passage from the Istari essay worth considering:

The End of the Third Age
>ETA-SL-01<ORP Now all these things were achieved for the most part by the counsel and vigilance of Mithrandir, and in the last few days he was revealed as a lord of great reverence, and clad in white he rode into battle; but not until the time came for him to depart was it known that he had long guarded the Red Ring of Fire. At the first that Ring had been entrusted to Círdan, Lord of the Havens; but he had surrendered it to Mithrandir, for he knew whence he came and whither at last he would return ETA-SL-02<Appendix B{For}, for Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth>.
‘Take now this Ring,’ he said; 'for thy labors and thy cares will be heavy, but in all it will support thee and defend thee from weariness. For this is the Ring of Fire, and herewith, maybe, thou shalt rekindle hearts to the valor of old in a world that grows chill. ETA-SL-03<The Istari It was entrusted to me only to keep secret, and here upon the West-shores it is idle; but I deem that in days ere long to come it should be in nobler hands than mine.> But as for me, my heart is with the Sea, and I will dwell by the grey shores, guarding the Havens until the last ship sails. Then I shall await thee.’ ETA-SL-03.2<UT Istari And the Grey Messenger took the Ring, and kept it ever secret; yet the White Messenger (who was skilled to uncover all secrets) after a time became aware of this gift, and begrudged it, and it was the beginning of the hidden ill-will that he bore to the Grey, which afterwards became manifest.>
White was that ship and long was it a-building, and long it awaited the end of which Círdan had spoken. But when all these things were done, and the Heir of Isildur had taken up the lordship of Men, and the dominion of the West had passed to him, then it was made plain that the power of the Three Rings also was ended, and to the Firstborn the world grew old and grey. In that time the last of the Noldor set sail from the Havens and left Middle-earth forever. And latest of all the Keepers of the Three Rings rode to the Sea.>
ETA-SL-03.4<UT Istari Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful, and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among the wild creatures. Thus he got his name (which is in the tongue of Númenor of old, and signifies, it is said, "tender of beasts").{(4)} And Curunír 'Lân, Saruman the White, fell from his high errand, and becoming proud and impatient and enamoured of power sought to have his own will by force, and to oust Sauron; but he was ensnared by that dark spirit, mightier than he.> ETA-SL-03.6<Letter 211 {I really do not know anything clearly}Nothing is clearly known about the other two – since they do not concern the history of the {N.W. I think they}North-West. They went as emissaries to distant regions, East and South, far out of Númenórean range: missionaries to 'enemy-occupied' lands, as it were. What success they had {I do not know; but I fear}is not known; but it is feared that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and {I suspect}it is suspected they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.>
ETA-SL-03.8<UT Istari Elsewhere is told how it was that when Sauron rose again, {he}Gandalf also arose and partly revealed his power, and becoming the chief mover of the resistance to Sauron was at last victorious, and brought all by vigilance and labour to that end which the Valar under the One that is above them had designed. Yet it is said that in the ending of the task for which he came he suffered greatly, and was slain, and being sent back from death for a brief while was clothed then in white, and became a radiant flame (yet veiled still save in great need). And when all was over and the Shadow of Sauron was removed, he departed for ever over the Sea. Whereas Curunír was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.>
ETA-SL-04<Letter to Milton Waldman Frodo {cannot}could not be healed. For the preservation of the Shire he {has}had sacrificed himself, even in health, and {has}had no heart to enjoy it. Sam {has}had to choose between love of master and of wife. In the end he {goes}went with Frodo on a last journey. At night in the woods, where Sam first met Elves on the outward journey, they {meet the}met a twilit cavalcade from Rivendell. The Elves and the Three Rings, and Gandalf (Guardian of the Third Age) {are}were going to the Grey Havens, to set sail for the West, never to return. Bilbo {is}was with them. To Bilbo and Frodo the special grace {is}was granted to go with the Elves they loved ETA-SL-05{- an Arthurian ending, in which it is, of course, not made explicit whether this is an 'allegory' of death, or a mode of healing and restoration leading to a return}. They {ride}rode to the Grey Havens, and {take}took the Ship ETA-SL-06<ORP that Círdan had made ready>: Gandalf with the Red Ring, Elrond (with the Blue) and the greater part of his household, and Galadriel of Lórien with the White Ring, and with them {depart}departed Bilbo and Frodo.>

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

These are great additions. I have only two comments.

In ETA-SL-03.4 The sentence starting 'Thus he got his name' needs to be removed, since in the late note concerning the Blue Wizards it is said that his name is 'not now clearly interpretable.' I called this change ETA-SL-03.5.

I think we should change the start of ETA-SL-03.8 to 'It has been told' since we've told that whole story right here in this text, so it cant be said to be 'elsewhere told.' Or we could say 'Elsewhere is it told in full' to distinguish it.

[Findegil]

ETA-SL-03.5: Agreed.

ETA-SL-03.8: What about ‘Elsewhere is told ETA-SL-03.9 <editorial addition at length> how it was ...’

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

This is fine

[ArcusCalion]

I have another inclusion from The Sources of the Legend of Isildur's Death:

.... Whereas Curunír was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.>
ETA-SL-03.9 <UT Sources of the Legend of Isildur’s Death {Long afterwards, as}As the Third Age of the Elvish World waned and the War of the Ring approached, it was revealed to the Council of Elrond that the Ring had been found, sunk near the edge of the Gladden Fields and close to the western bank; though no trace of Isildur's body was ever discovered. They were also then aware that Saruman had been secretly searching in the same region; but though he had not found the Ring (which had long before been carried off), they did not yet know what else he might have discovered.
But King Elessar, when he was crowned in Gondor, began the re-ordering of his realm, and one of his first tasks was the restoration of Orthanc, where he proposed to set up again the palantir recovered from Saruman. Then all the secrets of the tower were searched. Many things of worth were found, jewels and heirlooms of Eorl, filched from Edoras by the agency of Wormtongue during King Théoden's decline, and other such things, more ancient and beautiful, from mounds and tombs far and wide. Saruman in his degradation had become not a dragon but a jackdaw. At last behind a hidden door that they could not have found or opened had not Elessar had the aid of Gimli the Dwarf a steel closet was revealed. Maybe it had been intended to receive the Ring; but it was almost bare. In a casket on a high shelf two things were laid. One was a small case of gold, attached to a fine chain; it was empty, and bore no letter or token, but beyond all doubt it had once borne the Ring about Isildur's neck. Next to it lay a treasure without price, long mourned as lost for ever: the Elendilmir itself, the white star of Elvish crystal upon a fillet of mithril [Footnote: For that metal was found in Númenor.] that had descended from Silmarien to Elendil, and had been taken by him as the token of royalty in the North Kingdom. Every king and the chieftains that followed them in Arnor had borne the Elendilmir down even to Elessar himself; but though it was a jewel of great beauty, made by Elven-smiths in Imladris for Valandil Isildur's son, it had not the ancientry nor potency of the one that had been lost when Isildur fled into the dark and came back no more.
Elessar took it up with reverence, and when he returned to the North and took up again the full kingship of Arnor Arwen bound it upon his brow, and men were silent in amaze to see its splendor. But Elessar did not again imperil it, and wore it only on high days in the North Kingdom. Otherwise, when in kingly raiment he bore the Elendilmir which had descended to him. ‘And this also is thing of reverence,’ he said, ‘and above my worth; forty heads have worn it before.’
When men considered this secret hoard more closely, they were dismayed. For it seemed to them that these things, and certainly the Elendilmir, could not have been found, unless they had been upon Isildur's body when he sank; but if that had been in deep water of strong flow they would in time have been swept far away. Therefore Isildur must have fallen not into the deep stream but into shallow water, no more than shoulder-high, Why then, though an Age had passed, were there no traces of his bones? Had Saruman found them, and scorned them – burned them with dishonor in one of his furnaces? If that were so, it was a shameful deed; but not his worst.>
ETA-SL-04 <Letter to Milton Waldman Frodo {cannot}could not be healed. For the preservation of the Shire he {has}had sacrificed himself, ...

[Findegil]

ETA-SL-03.9: Agreed.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

One more addition for the very end of this chapter after the current last sentence:

ETA-SL-26 <Appendix A Here ends this tale, as it has come to us {from the South}; and with the passing of {Evenstar}the Fellowship no more is said in this book of the days of old.>

This was taken from the very end of the Tale of Aragorn and Arwen, but I removed it from that addition earlier, since we added bits about Eldarion and Legolas and Gimli after it, and so it wouldn't be strictly true. But I think it works really well as a closing line for the entire story of the Legendarium.

[Findegil]

ETA-SL-26: I am not happy with this addition. Even so it is ‘many years later’ The New Shadow is still in ‘the day of old’, at least from our and our potential readers perspective. And as we have old Borlas in that tale (at least at the beginning, that we have) the recorded event in the The New Shadow are not far in the future at the time when Legolas and Gimli left and Arwen died.
Anyhow the sentence is more true as it stands, since the death of Arwen is probably later then the journey of Legolas and Gimli, even so we record it in a changed sequence.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Would you recommend that it be put (in some modified form) at the end of The New Shadow? Or simply removed entirely?

[Findegil]

Modifying it in a way that it would be useable at the end of 'The New Shadow' is using JRR Tolkiens words forming a fan-fictional sentence. I think we have to leave it out.

Respectfully
Findegil

[gandalf85]

Another good chapter! Looking through this thread, I can see the chapter went through lots of changes for the better. I only have a few minor comments:

1) Regarding the Blue Wizards, this chapter states:

What success they had {I do not know; but I fear}is not known; but it is feared that they failed, as Saruman did, though doubtless in different ways; and {I suspect}it is suspected they were founders or beginners of secret cults and 'magic' traditions that outlasted the fall of Sauron.>

Here we say it is suspected the Blue Wizards failed, and what success they had is not known. But at the end of "Of the Five Wizards":

But the other two Istari were sent for a different purpose. Morinehtar and Rómestámo; FW-SL-21 {(28)} Darkness-slayer and East-helper. Their task was to circumvent Sauron: to bring help to the few tribes of Men that had rebelled from Melkor-worship, to stir up rebellion FW-SL-22{... } and after his first fall to search out his hiding (in which they failed) and to cause {[? } dissension and disarray{]} among the dark East.{ ...} They must have had very great influence on the history of the Second Age and Third Age in weakening and disarraying the forces of East {... }who would both in the Second Age and Third Age otherwise have {... }outnumbered the West.>

Here we say they had a great influence in weakening and disarraying the forces of the East, which seems like a success. I suppose these statements are fairly ambiguous, and they do not state anything definitively, due to phrases like "They must have had" and "it is suspected". I just wanted to bring it up. Do you guys think this is a contradiction, or are you OK keeping both sections?

2) ETA-SL-03.9 feels out of place:

.... Whereas Curunír was cast down, and utterly humbled, and perished at last by the hand of an oppressed slave; and his spirit went whithersoever it was doomed to go, and to Middle-earth, whether naked or embodied, came never back.>
ETA-SL-03.9 <UT Sources of the Legend of Isildur’s Death {Long afterwards, as}As the Third Age of the Elvish World waned and the War of the Ring approached, it was revealed to the Council of Elrond that the Ring had been found, sunk near the edge of the Gladden Fields and close to the western bank; though no trace of Isildur's body was ever discovered. They were also then aware that Saruman had been secretly searching in the same region; but though he had not found the Ring (which had long before been carried off), they did not yet know what else he might have discovered.
But King Elessar, when he was crowned in Gondor, began the re-ordering of his realm...

The sentence says "as the war of the ring approached" but at this point in the narrative, the war of the ring is already over. It also references the Council of Elrond well after the actual Council takes place. If you guys agree to moving it, I have a spot in the "Treason of Isengard" chapter where I think it is more appropriate; I can post it there.

3)

ETA-SL-15 <Appendix A Our King, we {call}called {him}King Elessar...

Is this any other instance we use the first-person, like this? Something which is clearly from the perspective of the hobbits. I know our work is theoretically based on something from an in-universe author, but I'm not sure we should explicitly keep first-person references like "I" or "we".

4) Typos:

He was sitting at the old well-worn, desk

This comma shouldn't be there.

There is now no snip that would bear

"ship"

5) I haven't read "The New Shadow" chapter yet, but I think Arcus' suggestion for the ending makes sense. Something like:

ETA-SL-26 <Appendix A Here ends this tale, as it has come to us {from the South}; and {with the passing of Evenstar} no more is said in this book of the days of old.>

I suppose it is "fan-fictional", but this entire project involves modifying and re-organizing Tolkien's words in a way he never intended. Maybe this is slightly self-indulgent, but I like how "as it has come to us" could have a double meaning: how it came to Tolkien from the elves/men/hobbits, and how it has come to us (i.e. the people editing "Translations from the Elvish").

[ArcusCalion]

1) Fin pointed out that the statements are not a contradiction. Saruman was also good for a time, and no doubt did much to prevent Sauron from gaining more power. However, he fell after some time. The same is equally possible of the Blue Wizards. This coupled with the vague language combines to make the two differing statements not contradictory.

2) Put your suggestion in that thread. I'm open to moving it.

3) This is the only other place where this occurs. We changed the similar statements in earlier chapters, so we should no doubt do so here.

4) Good catches!

5) I didn't think it was out of place in this chapter to be honest. I consider The Black Years and The Fading Years to be the last two parts continuing the narrative of the Quenta Silmarillion and the Atanatarion. Having this at the end of the work lends the whole thing a sense of finality and conclusion that I think is nice to have. The New Shadow is by its very incomplete nature a clearly unusual text, and must be dated later than the compilation of the previous texts. But it is definitely a debatable issue.
As for the argument that it is 'fanfiction-y,' then I must agree with gandalf here. By this definition, the whole project is fanfiction-y. But as it is a small thing, there is no reason to debate too long on it.

[Findegil]

1) For me there is no contradiction here. We have 2 other examples of failed Istari: Saruman and Radagast. Both had helped the ‘West’ in the beginning of their labour: Radagast by providing things like help of Eagels and other beast and birds as scouts (that these were misused in the end by Saruman can not be blaim on him), and Saruman by leading the White Council, providing knowledge about the Rings, and last but least as military ‘commander’ (e.g. Isengard as important point in the defence of the ‘West’ and the plans for the attack on Dol Guldur). And jet both did fall short of the aim they had taken on themself as Istari: Radagast by more or less neglegting the mission, Saruman at first by his own abbitions to become supreme leader and then by complete turn over to the enemy side.
For the Blue Wizards the reported positive effects are stiring rebellion against Sauron, weakening and disarraying the forces of the East. Like Saruman in the case of the Dol Guldur attack, these effects could have been archived even without staying true to the original mission. But any how they were rather archieved in times (long) before the War of the Ring, so that they could as well have been archieved with the best intention and jet in the crucial moment the Blue Wizards could have fallen from the high task, and thus failed in the overall picture given in this passage.

2) What is out of place is only the first paragraph. The passage from ‘But King Elessar, when he was crowned in Gondor, began the re-ordering of his realm ...’ fits here very well. I agree to remove this fist paragraph here, go ahead and post the place in ‘The treason of Isnegard’.

3) I agree that we have to chang the sentence. So what about this:

ETA-SL-15b<Appendix A ‘Our King’, {we call him}the Hobbits called King Elessar; and when he {comes}came north to his house in Annúminas restored and {stays}stayed for a while by Lake Evendim, ...

4) Thanks for point these out.

5) Let us discuss that in the appropriate place.

Letter 244: I think we should consider placing the entire letter in this chapter and remove the snippet just put in The War of the Ring. What do you think of this placement and editing:

ETA-SL-09b<HoME 12: TY4{It is said also that in}In 3020 Éowyn Éomund's daughter wedded Faramir, last Steward of Gondor and first Prince of Ithilien, in the king's house of Rohan. ETA-SL-09<Letter 244{Also she}She was not herself ambitious in the true political sense. Though not a 'dry nurse' in temper, she was also not really a soldier or 'amazon', but like many brave women was capable of great military gallantry at a crisis.
{I think you misunderstand Faramir.}moved from below<{I think he}Faramir understood Eowyn very well. >He was daunted by his father: not only in the ordinary way of a family with a stern proud father of great force of character, but as a Númenórean before the chief of the one surviving Númenórean state. He was motherless and sisterless (Eowyn was also motherless), and had a 'bossy' brother. He had been accustomed to giving way and not giving his own opinions air, while retaining a power of command among men, such as a man may obtain who is evidently personally courageous and decisive, but also modest, fair-minded and scrupulously just, and very merciful. {I think he understood Eowyn very well. Also to be}He became Prince of Ithilien, the greatest noble after Dol Amroth in the revived Númenórean state of Gondor, soon to be of imperial power and prestige{, was not a 'market-garden job' as you term it}. Until much had been done by the restored King, the {P.}/Prince/ of Ithilien {would be}was the resident march-warden of Gondor, in its main eastward outpost – and also {would have}had many duties in rehabilitating the lost territory, and clearing it of outlaws and orc-remnants, not to speak of the dreadful vale of Minas Ithil (Morgul). {I did not, naturally, go into details about the way in which Aragorn, as King of Gondor, would govern the realm. But it was made}It is clear that there was much fighting, and in the earlier years of {A.}/Aragorn/'s reign: expeditions against enemies in the East. The chief commanders, under the King, {would be}were Faramir and Imrahil; and one of these {would }normally {remain}remained a military commander at home in the King's absence. A Númenórean King was monarch, with the power of unquestioned decision in debate; but he governed the realm with the frame of ancient law, of which he was administrator (and interpreter) but not the maker. In all debatable matters of importance domestic, or external, however, even Denethor had a Council, and at least listened to what the Lords of the Fiefs and the Captains of the Forces had to say. Aragorn re-established the Great Council of Gondor, and in that Faramir, who remained by inheritance the Steward (or representative of the King during his absence abroad, or sickness, or between his death and the accession of his heir) would {[}be{]} the chief counsellor.
>ETA-SL-09.X<HoME 12: TY4 Éomer {her}Éowyn’s brother received the kingship upon the field of battle from Théoden ere he died. ...

Interristing as it is, I think, the rest of the letter is unusable for as, since it deals with the love story of Éowyn with Aragorn and Faramir, which is not given any room in our version.

And one other small point:
ETA-SL-16.2 and ETA-SL-18: I think we must keep a bit more of these. As it stands we mention that the Fairbrains lived for generation in Undertowers, but we did not mention who they are. And in the end we leave Rose out of the picture, which could mean to our reader that Sam left his wife behind, which was not the case, and which would be fully out of charachter.

ETA-SL-16.2<Appendix B In the year 1451 Shire reckoning Elanor the Fair {marries}married Fastred of Greenholm on the Far Downs.{
1452 The} In the following year the Westmarch, from the Far Downs to the Tower Hills (Emyn Beraid), {is}was added to the Shire by the gift of the King. Many hobbits {remove}removed to it. ETA-SL-16.3{
1454}Two years later Elfstan Fairbairn, son of Fastred and Elanor, {is}was born.{
1455 Master Samwise becomes Mayor for the fifth time.} At {his}the request of Master Samwise, the Mayor the Thain {makes}made Fastred Warden of Westmarch. Fastred and Elanor {make}made their dwelling at Undertowers on the Tower Hills, where their descendants, the Fairbairns of the Towers, dwelt for many generations.>
ETA-SL-18b<Appendix B On Mid-year’s Day 1482 Shire Reckoning{Death of} Mistress Rose, wife of Master Samwise, {on Mid-year's Day}died. On September {22}the twenty-second, Master Samwise {rides}rode out from Bag End. ...

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

3) Agreed.

Letter: well done Fin! This fits well here. Agreed.

Other point: Agreed as well.

[gandalf85]

1) OK, that makes sense, and I think it's a valid interpretation of how the Blue Wizards succeed but ultimately fail.

2) Yes, just the first paragraph -- I will post where I think it should be moved after finishing this post.

3) Agreed.

Letter 244: I think this is great! I agree to removing the snippet I added to "War of the Ring".

ETA-SL-16.2 and ETA-SL-18: Agreed.

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by ArcusCalion

FY-HL-22: I had a similar thought, but I can see no other title which would work. Any other suggestions are welcome. I think it will be ok tho, since the end of the Third Age (the passing of Elrond) is included in this chapter.

I agree to all the rest, a very well-organized and cogent post. As always, you have caught much that I missed!

Why did you remove the bit at the end of the English text of Aragorn's letter, where he says the date in the Rivendell months?

Perhaps the title could be Of the Dominion of Men?

[Findegil]

FY-HL-22: Is Of the Dominion of Men I title used by Tolkien? I don't think so. But anyhow it seems to me to be to broad. It is true that the Dominion of Men started with Elessar, but it did not end yet. So this title would cover all the History of Middel-earth from the crowning of Elessar to the prophecy of teh Last Battle (and as we talk about an fiegned history all our now real world history in between). That is a deal more than what we have put together in this chapter.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Arvegil145]

Originally Posted by Findegil

FY-HL-22: Is Of the Dominion of Men I title used by Tolkien? I don't think so. But anyhow it seems to me to be to broad. It is true that the Dominion of Men started with Elessar, but it did not end yet. So this title would cover all the History of Middel-earth from the crowning of Elessar to the prophecy of teh Last Battle (and as we talk about an fiegned history all our now real world history in between). That is a deal more than what we have put together in this chapter.

Respectfully
Findegil

I mean, was the current title used by Tolkien - or rather, used in the sense that we're using it in this forum?

And as to your second objection - I agree, it's too broad: maybe something like The Beginning of the Dominion of Men?

[Findegil]

Used as a title, yes. Used to cover the same over all time frame, neare enough. Used to title the same text, of course not.

Thus I at least see still a difference from creating a title out of something mentioned some where in a text.

Respectfully
Findegil