The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum


Visit The *EVEN NEWER* Barrow-Downs Photo Page

Go Back   The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum > Announcements and Obituaries > Haudh-en-Ndengin
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Today's Posts


 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-31-2002, 03:18 AM   #1
arelendil
Wight
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Eryn Lasgalen
Posts: 202
arelendil has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril Hair problem

Has anyone else noticed that when tolkien is discribing people or places it's really amazing but their is a lack of info on legolas. the book does even mention hair colour.i know the film made him blonde but is there any evidence or was it just directors choice? i always thought all elves were blond except elrond kin cause they were half-elven!

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: arelendil ]
__________________
Nai Vardo eleni ilye lumenn' enomentielvo siluvar!
arelendil is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 03:44 AM   #2
Iargwath
Wight
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 236
Iargwath has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to Iargwath Send a message via AIM to Iargwath
Silmaril

Yes that seems true. I never read anything about hair colour. I always imagined that elves would've had beautiful long silvery hair. Not Blonde [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img]
__________________
'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40

My M-e Forum
Iargwath is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 03:54 AM   #3
arelendil
Wight
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Eryn Lasgalen
Posts: 202
arelendil has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

silvery but that would mean they all need wigs!! i see your pt though it would have add that air that i was looking for!
__________________
Nai Vardo eleni ilye lumenn' enomentielvo siluvar!
arelendil is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 04:30 AM   #4
Iargwath
Wight
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 236
Iargwath has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to Iargwath Send a message via AIM to Iargwath
Sting

hehe yeah!Silvery hair for the elves.Thats how i always saw it.hehe
__________________
'I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me, and heard my cry'-Psalm 40

My M-e Forum
Iargwath is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 04:40 AM   #5
*Varda*
Maiden of Tears
 
*Varda*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Valinor.
Posts: 571
*Varda* has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to *Varda*
Sting

Luthien had dark hair and she wasn't half elven. Although she was half Maia I suppose.
__________________
'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo
"Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn
*Varda* is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 04:50 AM   #6
Daniel Telcontar
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Denmark
Posts: 713
Daniel Telcontar has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The noldorne was mostly darkhaired. That is why Finarfin's kin is and exception; He married Earwen, a Teleri, and his children had golden hair. The word fin means hear, and is because of their haircolor. Finrod, Glorfindel and so on.
__________________
Two beer or not two beer, that is the question; by Shakesbeer
Daniel Telcontar is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 06:05 AM   #7
arelendil
Wight
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Eryn Lasgalen
Posts: 202
arelendil has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

i never even thought of that!
__________________
Nai Vardo eleni ilye lumenn' enomentielvo siluvar!
arelendil is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 06:09 AM   #8
theWhiteLady
Wight
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 116
theWhiteLady has just left Hobbiton.
Silmaril

Aredhel, the White Lady of the Noldor, had dark hair (The Silmarillion, chapter 5, Of Eldamar)

Generally, I've always thought of the Calaquendi (the elves that went to Valinor) of having light hair and the Moriquendi and the Sindar having dark. Although, Feanor had dark hair, did he not?
theWhiteLady is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 06:40 AM   #9
Dimaldaeon
Wight
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Ireland & damn proud of it.
Posts: 125
Dimaldaeon has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via ICQ to Dimaldaeon Send a message via AIM to Dimaldaeon
Sting

The Noldor had dark hair, the Vanyar had blonde hair and the Teliri had silvery hair. Legolas probably had blonde hair because his father had and his father didn't seem to like the Noldor.
__________________
Dear Saddam, Do not disunderestimate me.Yours G.W.Bush

You're not drunk if you can still hold onto a blade of grass to stop yourself from falling off the face of the Earth
Dimaldaeon is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 08:41 AM   #10
Aldagrim Proudfoot
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Hobbiton
Posts: 328
Aldagrim Proudfoot has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

So that would mean Galadriel had dark hair and Legolas had silvery hair.
__________________
I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!
Aldagrim Proudfoot is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 10:30 AM   #11
*Varda*
Maiden of Tears
 
*Varda*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Valinor.
Posts: 571
*Varda* has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via MSN to *Varda*
Sting

I thought Legolas was a Silvan Elf.

Can some one clarify for me exactly what types of elf you get? I hear all these names noldor, teleri and so on and it's sorta confusing.
__________________
'It must often be so, Sam, when things are in danger: someone has to give them up, lose them, so that others may keep them' ~Frodo
"Life is hard. After all, it kills you." - Katharine Hepburn
*Varda* is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 10:35 AM   #12
obloquy
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
obloquy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 939
obloquy has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to obloquy
Sting

If the hair color of the Sindar was any indication as to the hair color of the rest of the Telerin tribe, silvery hair was actually uncommon among the Teleri.

Here's a good thread regarding hair.

I'd like to remind people to at least try to search for the answer to your question before posting a new thread.
obloquy is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 11:07 AM   #13
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Actually, I don't know the color of Finarfin's wife (Earwen)'s hair.

Blonde was introduced to the royal Noldorin house of Finwe because of his second wife, Indis, a Vanyarin elf. This is why Finarfin {and not Fingolfin: see edit below} had light hair.

Galadriel (Finarfin + Earwen) is thought of as Noldorin, but in actuality, her father was half-Noldorin/half-Vanyarin (Finarfin = Finwe + Indis) and her mother, Olwe's dauther, was wholly Telerin for what we know (no information on her mother is given). Thus, she is 25% Noldor, 25% Vanyar, and possibly (most likely?) 50% Telerin. She inherited the light hair gene from her grandmother, Indis.

"Elwe himself had indeed long and beautiful hair of silver hue, but this does not seem to have been a common feature of the Sindar, though it was found among them occasionally, especially in the nearer or remoter kin of Elwe (as in the case of Cķrdan)."

Thus, it is quite conceivable that Olwe/Earwen too had blonde hair, since his brother Elmo was the grandfather of Celeborn, who also had light hair, and his brother Elwe (Thingol) had light hair.

Edit, for amyrlis:

Seems that it was a misconception of mine, and I apologize.

From the Silmarillion...

Quote:
Finarfin - The third son of Finwe, the younger of Feanor's half-brothers; remained in Aman after the Exile of the Noldor and ruled the remnant of his people in Tirion. Alone among the Noldorin princes he and his descendants had golden hair, derived from his mother Indis, who was a Vanyarin Elf (see Vanyar).
So, no, Fingolfin didn't have light hair. Finarfin did however, so the light hair of his children did not come from his wife Earwen (or at least not only from her), but from himself and his Vanyarin mother, Indis.

Sorry if I caused any confusion.

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.
Legolas is offline  
Old 07-31-2002, 12:42 PM   #14
amyrlis
Wight
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Helcaraxe
Posts: 210
amyrlis has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Legalos, is there a specific reference to Fingolfin having blond hair? I was under the impression that of the Noldor, only the house of Finarfin had golden hair. So I always assumed the Fingolfin did not inherit his mother's hue, and was dark haired.

obloquy - thanks for the link to the older thread! I would have directed my post there had I not had a specific question of Legalos' post here. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

EDIT for Legalos: Thank you for clarifying that for me, I appreciate it!

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: amyrlis ]
__________________
"Pull the blinders from my eyes, let me see these endless skies
And drown here where I stand in the beauty of the land."
amyrlis is offline  
Old 08-02-2002, 11:26 AM   #15
The Balrog-Durin's Bane
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Waukesha, WI
Posts: 18
The Balrog-Durin's Bane has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to The Balrog-Durin's Bane
Pipe

I had pictured, they had some kind of bleach blond, but yeah silvery that it seems very fair and almost radient, like the elven cloaks.
__________________
"Baruk Khazad! Khazad aimenu!"-Battle Cry of the Dwarves meaning
"Axes of the Dwarves! the dwarves are upon you!"
"...let Gimli son of Gloin warn you against foolish words, You speak evil of that which is far beyond the reach of your thought, and only little wit can excuse you."
The Balrog-Durin's Bane is offline  
Old 08-02-2002, 02:35 PM   #16
Starbreeze
Ghost of a Smile
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mirkwood - Middle Earth
Posts: 389
Starbreeze has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Starbreeze
Silmaril

I had always thought elves to be dark haired for the most part until I saw the film. Now I can't get the image of Legolas and co's fair hair.
__________________
Do not tamper with the affairs of wizards, they are not all that subtle - Terry Pratchett

To write is to make dreams, to make dreams is to awaken the fantasy of the mind, to awaken the mind is to be a master.
Starbreeze is offline  
Old 08-02-2002, 04:28 PM   #17
amyrlis
Wight
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Helcaraxe
Posts: 210
amyrlis has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I was the opposite. I always thought elves had light/blond hair when I was younger. I didn't pick up on the dark hair until about the 2nd time I read the Sil (nothing gets by me! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]). I even wrote a poem in H.S. about Aragorn and Arwen, in which I stated that Arwen had "gold" hair. Silly me! I thought Legolas was blond until I joined this site and learned that it is never specified. I went with those on the site who believe he has dark hair and forced myself to view him differently during readings. Then, the movie came out and has sent me reeling back to my old ways. What can you do!?!
__________________
"Pull the blinders from my eyes, let me see these endless skies
And drown here where I stand in the beauty of the land."
amyrlis is offline  
Old 08-03-2002, 05:10 PM   #18
Melian
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 27
Melian has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I always imagined Legolas hair to be light blond. I have no idea why!
__________________
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."
Melian is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 09:12 AM   #19
Niphredil Baggins
Wight
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Finland
Posts: 118
Niphredil Baggins has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Galadriel is blonde and Celeborn's hair is silver. That is mentioned in the books.
__________________
Wistful, willful, wingless, fly!
Niphredil Baggins is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 10:50 AM   #20
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

You're kidding me.
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.
Legolas is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 10:57 AM   #21
The Silver-shod Muse
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The shoulder of a poet, TX
Posts: 388
The Silver-shod Muse has just left Hobbiton.
Pipe

I wasn't aware that there was a silver hair gene swimming around in the Elven gene pool til now.


That's interesting cause I was going to color my hair silver for some inexplicable reason, only I couldn't ever find silver hair dye and... never mind. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
__________________
"'You," he said, "tell her all. What good came to you? Do you rejoice that Maleldil became a man? Tell her of your joys, and of what profit you had when you made Maleldil and death acquainted.'" -Perelandra, by C.S. Lewis
The Silver-shod Muse is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 11:19 AM   #22
Arwen Undómiel
Pile O'Bones
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sao Paulo
Posts: 18
Arwen Undómiel has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I always imagine elves with blonde hair [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
Few know whither their road will take them till they come to its end.
Arwen Undómiel is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 11:27 AM   #23
Beatrice
Pile O'Bones
 
Beatrice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 16
Beatrice has just left Hobbiton.
Question

Okay, people, we already know that elves can have black, blonde and silver hair, but what about brown and red? I don't think Tolkien ever mentions a carrot-top elf...
Beatrice is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 11:45 AM   #24
Eol
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The Pacific Northwest - Tir Nan Og
Posts: 306
Eol has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Honestly, hair color does not matter too much to me. For all we know a Sindarian could have blonde hair while another could have black. It really does not matter as it is not a pivital moment of any Tolkien's work. I have yet to read a story that relays on whether some person has blonde hair. And if he didn't the Orc would eat him.
Legolas was essentially a thug, a sharp shooter for the Fellowship. I suppose that is what Tolkien did not give him much discription.
__________________
Mes sana in corpec sano- (lt.) A sound mind in a sound body
Eol is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 11:52 AM   #25
obloquy
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
 
obloquy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: WA
Posts: 939
obloquy has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to obloquy
Sting

Yes, if you had clicked on the link I provided above you would see that there were red-haired Elves.

And nobody cares how you always pictured Elves.
obloquy is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 11:57 AM   #26
Beatrice
Pile O'Bones
 
Beatrice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 16
Beatrice has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
Legolas was essentially a thug, a sharp shooter for the Fellowship.
Nice view of Legolas ya got there, Eol! I never actually thought of him as a thug! From now on I only think of Legolas as wearing a pinstriped suit and armed with a machine gun! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Anyway, sorry for the out of topic message, but I had to say that! Carry on, people!
Beatrice is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 12:13 PM   #27
Eol
Shade of Carn Dūm
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: The Pacific Northwest - Tir Nan Og
Posts: 306
Eol has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Thank you Beatice!

As I had feared with making such a comment about Legolas would have thousands of loyal Legolas fans attempt to run me down and beat me. I am glad you enjoyed the point of view.
__________________
Mes sana in corpec sano- (lt.) A sound mind in a sound body
Eol is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 12:30 PM   #28
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Beatrice

There were elves with brown hair. When it is said that elves are 'dark-haired,' that term encompasses both black and brown hair. Caranthir (one of Feanor's sons) had black hair ("as his grandfather" was, Finwe). His other grandfather, Urundil (his mother's father), had brown hair.

There were red-haired elves. Three of Feanor's sons had red hair - the oldest and the youngest (Maedhros, being the oldest, and the twins Amrod and Amras, being the youngest). They inherited this from their mother, Feanor's wife, Nerdanel through her father Urundil that showed signs of this too...he had "coppery-red glints" in his brown hair.

This is found in "The Shibboleth of Feanor" in The History of Middle-earth, Volume 12: The Peoples of Middle-earth.

[ August 04, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.
Legolas is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 12:42 PM   #29
Beatrice
Pile O'Bones
 
Beatrice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 16
Beatrice has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Really? I never knew...

Can someone please give me the page that says that Feanor's sons had red hair. Geez, shows how well I've been reading The Silmarillion!

People, please don't kill me for not knowing that elves could have brown and red hair! Hobbits are really more my area. [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
Beatrice is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 01:19 PM   #30
Elrian
Eldar Spirit of Truth
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE
Posts: 794
Elrian has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
There were red-haired elves. Three of Feanor's sons had red hair - the oldest and the youngest (Maedhros, being the oldest, and the twins Amrod and Amras, being the youngest). They inherited this from their mother, Feanor's wife, Nerdanel through her father Urundil that showed signs of this too...he had "coppery-red glints" in his brown hair.

This is found in "The Shibboleth of Feanor" in The History of Middle-earth, Volume 12: The Peoples of Middle-earth.
As Legalos stated in his post it was not found in the Silmarillion, but in HoME #12: The Peoples of Middle-earth.
__________________
*~*Call me a relic, call me what you will.
Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill.
That old whine ain't got no soul.
I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.*~*
Elrian is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 01:25 PM   #31
Legolas
A Northern Soul
 
Legolas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
Legolas has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Sorry...I added that edit after Beatrice read the post, I believe. I did so to avoid making an unnecessarily separate post (a purpose which I have just defeated).
__________________
...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.
Legolas is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 06:27 PM   #32
mark12_30
Stormdancer of Doom
 
mark12_30's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Elvish singing is not a thing to miss, in June under the stars
Posts: 4,349
mark12_30 has been trapped in the Barrow!
Send a message via AIM to mark12_30 Send a message via Yahoo to mark12_30
Sting

I have no clue whatsoever about any elves' hair color at all. And now that I've read this thread-- very scary-- I CERTAINLY won't mention it in any of my writings-- well, except for one specific one that is blonde. But the rest? Shhh, it's a secret. Maybe they're punked out purple.
__________________
...down to the water to see the elves dance and sing upon the midsummer's eve.
mark12_30 is offline  
Old 08-04-2002, 06:42 PM   #33
Melian
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 27
Melian has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

"And nobody cares how you always pictured Elves"
You could have said that in a nicer way, obloquy.
__________________
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."
Melian is offline  
Old 08-05-2002, 11:04 PM   #34
Isiltįri
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
White-Hand

Seriously, that was rude.
 
Old 08-05-2002, 11:56 PM   #35
burrahobbit
Hidden Spirit
 
burrahobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,424
burrahobbit has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

Quote:
Seriously, that was rude.
obloquy probably doen't care about that either. I share his opinion. What Tolkien wrote is far more important than what any of us mortals thinks.
__________________
What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?
burrahobbit is offline  
Old 08-06-2002, 06:58 PM   #36
Melian
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 27
Melian has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

I also think so, burrahobbit but he could have said something like: "why don“t we stick to what Tolkien wrote" or something less rude.
Don“t worry, we can leave it there and go on with the topic [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
__________________
"Faithless is he that says farewell when the road darkens."
Melian is offline  
Old 08-12-2002, 11:03 AM   #37
Bulelainwen
Animated Skeleton
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: In a squeaking chair in front of the computer
Posts: 40
Bulelainwen has just left Hobbiton.
Send a message via AIM to Bulelainwen
Sting

the other day i was looking at some pics from the movie and it was at the council of elrond. they had blonde haired elves by legolas but on the other side of the men there were more elves and they all had brown hair, so i guess the movie made the elves from mirkwood blonde but rivendell brown.
Bulelainwen is offline  
Old 08-12-2002, 01:39 PM   #38
burrahobbit
Hidden Spirit
 
burrahobbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 1,424
burrahobbit has just left Hobbiton.
Sting

The hair of Elves comes in every color that the hair of Men comes in. Blond, brown, black, red, silver.
__________________
What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?
burrahobbit is offline  
 


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:18 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.