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#1 |
Pile O'Bones
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Inspired by the subject of the elves' love of beauty, this came to my mind. Do you think that, perhaps, Feanor was obsessed with precious jewels and stones because, things like that are hard, not easily broken, and their outward beauty endures - just like most elves?
"A diamond is forever." (Cheesy, I know. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ) Nothing lasts forever, but if kept in the right hands, (which we all know the Silmarils were not), jewels like that can come close. What I'm basically wondering is if anyone thinks that perhaps by the Silmarils and other jewel-making, Feanor was attempting to deal with and embody his immortality? Elves appreciate beauty, yes, and we all know most beauty found in nature or people, (aside from other elves) does not last. A tree must die at some point, as must a human, no matter how fair or foul or loved they are. So, perhaps Feanor tried to change this by making the Silmarils and his other jewels? Any ideas or thoughts? -Beleth
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"No," Ambrosius said. "A dog who is part wolf will fight more heartily against wolves than any other dog." |
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#2 |
Wight
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Valinor
Posts: 215
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I don't think so. When Fëanor made the Silmarils he was living in Aman, were everything lasts for ever [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] And he also was born in Aman, and therefore he had never seen the death of anything in Middle Earth.
In this case, I think that Fëanor main intention was only to make beautiful things [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile. |
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#3 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Rivendell
Posts: 807
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It is possible that Feanor wanted to create something undestructable, something that would not be broken. However; I agree with Amarie that Feanor really wasn´t familiar with death, or things fading away. So his motivation wasn´t to create something that wouldn´t die, but something that couldn´t be destroyed. That says a lot about a character, doesn´t it? He´s not nescesarily thinking of the natrual end of a thing, but of making something that couldn´t be destroyed by force.
And that fits Feanor, who didn´t want anything he made be destroyed, and who opposed forces greater than him.
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Love is a perky elf dancing a merry little jig and then suddenly he turns on you with a miniature machine gun. Blog :-)|FanFicDream City |
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#4 | ||
A Northern Soul
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
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[ June 23, 2003: Message edited by: Legolas ]
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...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. |
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#5 |
Deathless Sun
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Actually, I think Fëanor was quite familiar with death. Look what happened to his mother. That death affected him for the rest of his life. His mother's death was anything but natural, or peaceful. People probably blamed him for his mother's death. He hated Indis, and his half-brothers.
Fëanor probably created the Silmarils out of a base instinct to prove that he was better than his brothers. Fingolfin and Finarfin were always hated by Fëanor, and he was always jealous of their new status. He wanted to outdo them for all of eternity, and I think he succeeded.
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But Melkor also was there, and he came to the house of Fëanor, and there he slew Finwë King of the Noldor before his doors, and spilled the first blood in the Blessed Realm; for Finwë alone had not fled from the horror of the Dark. |
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#6 |
A Northern Soul
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
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Oui - he was familiar with death, and quite sick of it - thus, this thread. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] Arrogance and his complex are certainly the obvious reasons, but there's definitely more to such a situation.
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...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. |
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#7 | |||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I agree, he had lost his mother before he had even known her and perhaps he had been, in part, blamed for Miriel's death.
Unfortunatly, I know first hand what it is like growing up minus one parent and it can be difficult - especially when the one you have re-marries and has other children - they can require a lot of attention and no doubt Finwe was terrified he would lose Indis in childbirth as he did Miriel and in this fear watched over her throughout her pregnancies, and possibly, however unintentionally, might have neglected Feanor somewhat. Quote:
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Athrabeth *is still doing the wave for Boromir the Disco-King* Oh...and call me Morgy! |
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#8 |
Scent of Simbelmynë
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Wow, Beleth, I missed this thread too, but I think your ideas are really good.
I think, and I'm not sure entirely how it ties in, but I think it's important to note that even while Feanor was in Valinor (the closest thing in Tolkien to a perfect place) he is still unhappy. Feanor is deeply discontent, and likely always has been. And he's immortal. He will be deeply discontent until the ending of Arda. Immortality looks a lot less fun when looked at that way. Something to come to terms with (as I think you mentioned, Beleth). I think Feanor's reaction may have been similar to the reaction of some of us puny mortals ( ![]()
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The seasons fall like silver swords, the years rush ever onward; and soon I sail, to leave this world, these lands where I have wander'd. O Elbereth! O Queen who dwells beyond the Western Seas, spare me yet a little time 'ere white ships come for me! Last edited by Sophia the Thunder Mistress; 02-22-2005 at 07:01 AM. Reason: old post cleanup |
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#9 | |
Wight
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Valinor
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True, I forgot Míriel's death [img]smilies/frown.gif[/img]
After reading your posts and considering her death, I agree with you in that it is likely that Fëanor made the Silmarills because he wanted to possess something that would never abandon him unlike his mother. But in my opinion, it is impossible that Fëanor knew the meaning of words like rust or decompose when he made the Silmarills, because he was born in Aman and there: Quote:
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But it is said that not until that hour had such cold thoughts ruled Finrod; for indeed she whom he had loved was Amarië of the Vanyar, and she went not with him into exile. |
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#10 |
A Northern Soul
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
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True. He might not have known those words or their meaning, but he was acquainted with the concept - he knew people could change, whether it be a turn of personality or some physical change like his mother's death. The jewels wouldn't encounter such problems. He wasn't necessarily consciously thinking these things - this thread is pointing more towards the subconscious, the motivation less-obvious to the observer and probably totally cut-off from Feanor's mind.
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...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art. |
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#11 |
Guest
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Interesting thought Beleth.. but I think Feanor made the Silmarils simply because he wanted to make something. Maybe I should go read that book again [img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] Vanya sulie.
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#12 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: the Seventh Gate of Gondolin
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I agree with the earlier post of Legolas. I think that the Silmarils could be compared to a family heirloom of kings or rulers. They were the most beautiful jewels on earth, and a dark lord takes them from you. In most other fantasy stories, the "hero" would do the same and regain them or perish in the attempt. (Except, it would be the usual hero wins and everythings great again story that I am so bored of!) thats why I love tolkien so much. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
~Namarie~ |
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#13 |
Guest
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Amarie of the Vanyar said: Even Miriel's hroa didn't rot when her fëa went to Mandos.
Actually, it did. Tolkien mentioned somewhere that Elves' bodies decompose quickly when they die. Miriel's body was preserved at first, but when Finwe remarried, it was allowed to decompose so that she could never return to it. Last edited by Fell Beast; 02-22-2005 at 06:26 PM. |
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#14 |
Mischievous Candle
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Welcome to 'Downs Fell Beast! Enjoy being dead
![]() As other people have said, Feanor was kind of childishly eager to prove his merit and status. Maybe that was due to the strong spirit he had or maybe he wanted to show Finwe and Indis that only he was really something. Miriel had been a very skilled weaver. That might have been the inspiration for Feanor to pursue fame and pleasure from artistry (the writing system he improved and jewellery). Also, Feanor's marriage with a great blacksmith's daughter probably enhanced his interest in jewels. The main reason for making the silmarils was risen by a question: how to make the light of the trees and the glory of Aman to last forever (The Silmarillion, Ch. 7). To me it seems that Feanor knew that Melkor's kindness was just an act and he had a premonition that something evil was about to happen. My first thoughts were that Feanor wanted to play a god, a vala, and thus create something that everyone would desire and be amazed at. But the fact that Feanor loathed Melkor had a certain impact, I think. It was only afterwards when he had made the silmarils, that their flawlessness and beauty took over him and he became a bit too fond of them and thus grasping. They were kind of like the One Ring. Feanor didn't want other people to touch the silmarils and was afraid that they would be stolen. (Scrolls to the beginning to recall what the original question even was...) I agree with Morgul Queen and Sophia about many things but I'd like to think that the idea for the silmarils wasn't completely based on selfish thoughts. I sympathize with Feanor since he must have been very frustrated and unhappy with his life. Though he was ambitious and hot-tempered, he just wanted to make something beautiful endure.
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Fenris Wolf
Last edited by dancing spawn of ungoliant; 02-22-2005 at 06:44 AM. |
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#15 |
Guest
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Thankee for the welcome, dancing spawn!
![]() In my opinion, Fëanor was restless and unhappy for a lot of his life. Perhaps he was always creating more dazzling and difficult-to-make treasures partly because he needed something to keep his mind occupied. He'd already explored every corner of Aman, improved their written language, learned everything he could from other craftspeople; what else was there for him to do? I get the feeling that even before the trouble with Melkor started, he wanted to get to Arda somehow, see new things, new people, new languages, new lore, new dangers, etc. He really did feel restricted by the Valar. The fact that he distrusted Melkor when everyone else still thought he was a great guy indicates that he had some suspicion that M was up to no good. And if one Vala could be an enemy, so could any or all of them. *Ahem* Will try to stop rambling now. Fëanor probably made the Silmarils for a variety of reasons: 1) appreciation for beauty and desire to make beautiful things 2) intellectual challenge (to keep his mind off problems with Valar/family? or just because he liked challenges?) 3) desire to make something that would never die or decay (possibly because of his mother's death) 4) sensing a threat in Melkor, sought to preserve the Trees' light because he suspected something bad was coming? Of course, I could be wrong. Who really knows what went on in that mind of his? Last edited by Fell Beast; 02-22-2005 at 10:28 PM. |
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#16 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
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First, the Silmarils had to be indestructible as a plot devise. If they were perishable, then Feanor could have destroyed them to spite everyone. Melkor could have done the same instead of bearing them in his Iron Crown. Or, when the War of Wrath was starting to go poorly for him, he could have then just smashed them. Melkor killed the trees; why not the Silmarils too?
And as stated, Feanor wasn't just thinking about Melkor, though I'm sure that stories regarding the same made him want to create something that even Melkor could not taint (as he had all of the rest of the works in Arda). Why not make something that might even confound Manwe or Aule? "Naa naa naa, I'm better than the Valar...Melkor defiled your works but not mine!" Iluvatar made certain things imperishable, and so why not Feanor? He was a little proud ya know... And they had to resistant to Red Maw digestive systems. And don't the jewels play some part regarding the end of the world, meaning that they would need to be (to borrow a word) null-entropic? |
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#17 | |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Alatar wrote:
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Actually, the Silmarils were destructible. After the darkening of Valinor the Valar asked that Feanor break the Silmarils and use the light trapped within to rekindle the Trees. And he refused. The point was moot because, unbeknownst to them at the time, Melkor had just attacked Formenos. But it remains true that even at the urging of the Valar, even to revive the Two Trees and reverse the Darkening, Feanor would not destroy the Silmarils. The jewels came close to destruction again when Melkor quarreled with Ungoliant. Ungoliant desired to consume them but Melkor withheld them; this led to the Thieves' Quarrel. The arrival of the Balrogs prevented Ungoliant from consuming them, but the text (LQ2 I believe) clearly indicates that had Ungoliant consumed them they would have perished. Finally, one may note that the Second Prophecy of Mandos foretells that at the end of the world the Silmarils will in fact be broken and their light will be used to revive the Trees. So they were not indestructible. They were certainly difficult to damage or destroy, but not impossible. |
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#18 | ||||
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
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