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10-06-2017, 06:11 PM | #1 | |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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Of the Siege of Angband
This chapter is the last of the First Age chapters to have a draft posted! Hurray for progress!
This is the first draft of the chapter Of the Siege of Angband. Our basis text is that of "Of the Siege of Angband" given in HoME V. Wherever the text is different from HoME V, this is marked by an editing mark. The markings are: SA-LQ-xx for tracking any changes from the QS text to the LQ texts SA-EX-xx for tracking any other additions or changes These are General Name changes from LQ1 and LQ2 and are not marked in the draft: Eruman >Araman, Tun > Túna, Gnomes > Noldor, Thorndor > Thorondor, Bladorion > Ard-galen, Maidros > Maedros (the last only for the QS/LQ texts, not GA additions) Some conventions of my writing: Normal Text is from the basic text that is mentioned above (when I change the basic-Text it will be mentioned) Bold Text = source information, comments and remarks {example} = text that should be deleted [example] = normalised text, normally only used for general changes <source example> = additions with source information ...... = This section of the paragraph is unchanged from the source. Quote:
SA-EX-01: I have chosen this subheading from the Grey Annals as a more fitting name for the chapter, after adding in much material from the Grey Annals, as the bulk of this chapter now deals with events before the Siege of Angband. In the published Sil, CT named it "Of the Return of the Noldor," but I opted to stick with the Tolkien heading from the Grey Annals. SA-LQ-01: The whole original first paragraph of QS was replaced by a few paragraphs in LQ. SA-EX-02: Some material from the Grey Annals not in QS or LQ SA-EX-03: Same as 02 SA-EX-04: The account in the Grey Annals is far more fleshed out, so I have replaced the QS account. There is a minor difference between the two, in that in the (older) QS version the battle takes place in Bladorion, whereas in the (newer) GA version it is a vast battle taking place in Mithrim, Serech, and Bladorion over the course of 10 days. The LQ account never updated the story in QS, but it can be assumed that the GA version was the final one, as it was written at a similar time to LQ, and could be viewed as a summary, with only minute differences. SA-EX-05: We are told in Q&E that the term Moriquendi was considered offensive and never used by the people in Beleriand, so I replaced the terms with the more acceptable Amanyar and Umanyar. SA-EX-06: This is the transition from the GA insertion to the QS main text. I have moved the descriptors for Maedros up to the first occurrence of his name in the new paragraph to smooth out the transition. SA-EX-07: I eliminated "six" because one of the twins is dead at this point. SA-LQ-02: This is the LQ update to the QS text. SA-LQ-03: This is the LQ update to the QS text. SA-LQ-04: This was removed in LQ SA-EX-08: This account in GA was fuller, so I added it in, along with a paragraph break from GA. SA-EX-09: The peril of war was not in QS. SA-LQ-05: Update from QS to LQ. SA-EX-10: This is not in QS. SA-EX-11: Again, not in QS. SA-LQ-06: Update from QS to LQ. SA-LQ-07: This heading was added into he LQ text. SA-LQ-08: Update from QS to LQ. SA-LQ-09: This was added in LQ. SA-EX-12: This is not in QS. SA-LQ-10: Update from QS to LQ. SA-LQ-11: Update from QS to LQ. SA-EX-13: I removed this, firstly because in the Shibboleth insertion we used it is said that the Noldor did not have time to unload most of the things from the ships, so they cannot have Fingolfin's stuff to give him, and secondly because in the Grey Annals account Maedros renounces the kingship later at a council. I have left the sentence in about the discontent of the Sons of Feanor, but as this was in reference to the kingship this may be removed. SA-EX-14: This is said later on in a Grey Annals insertion. SA-EX-15: This is an addition I am making in the interest of keeping the Of the Siege of Angband heading in the text, as well as to separate a very large section of Grey Annals text concerning the Siege into its own section. There is no heading here in QS, but I think it merits one in this version. SA-EX-16: This section is replaced by a much much fuller version in the Grey Annals. SA-EX-17: This is a simple wording change due to the fact that this is not Annal format. SA-EX-18: Here we come back to our QS base text, but as the antecedent sentences were removed, the "But" has no reference, so I have removed it for smoother transition. With that, all the drafts for the First Age are complete!!! |
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10-09-2017, 02:27 PM | #2 | ||||||||
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,720
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I will not comment on the SA-LQ-zz changes. It is obvious that we have to do these. I only added the source information and slightly changed the fromat of the change to look like
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SA-EX-01 and SA-EX-15: I agree to change the title and use ‘Of the Siege of Angband’ as sub-heading. SA-EX-05: I am not sure if we should make this change. So I can understand your reasoning, it is not clear to me if that means we can not use these names. SA-EX-05.5: I think we should add here a bit from Sil77 so we do not know were it comes from: Quote:
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SA-EX-07.5: Again a bit from GA to be used since it is not found elsewhere: Quote:
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Respectfully Findegil |
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10-09-2017, 03:00 PM | #3 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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SA-EX-05: I feel that the insert from Q&E earlier would serve no purpose if we then use Moriquendi, after it was already said that this name was never used.
SA-EX-05.5: agreed. SA-EX-06.5: agreed. SA-EX-07.2: agreed to the insert, but I am still strongly in favor of using Argon. It is said that this version of his name was made in retrospect for the retelling of his valor, and is that not exactly what this is? a retelling of his valiant deed written long afterwards? Besides, all the names of the Noldor are given in Sindarin form, even before they came to Beleriand. SA-EX-07.5 agreed. SA-EX-16: agreed. SA-EX-17: agreed. SA-EX-19, 20: I agree that this fits very naturally here, but beyond this, what is the reasoning for moving it? Is it simply due to Grey Annals chronology? if so that makes sense, and I agree. SA-EX-21: agreed. |
10-09-2017, 03:11 PM | #4 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,720
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SA-EX-07.2 Argon: If you are adamant on changing it, then we wil change it her and in the Atrabeth.
SA-EX-19 and SA-EX-20: The reason to move this, is that Finrod had the help of the Naugrim, while in the old place Caranthir meet the Dwarves after Nargothrond was full wraught. Respectfully Findegil |
10-09-2017, 03:19 PM | #5 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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SA-EX-07.2: I do feel pretty strongly about it, but we could wait for Aiwendil to make his way through the drafts to this point and give his opinion.
SA-EX-19, 20: agreed then |
10-09-2017, 03:21 PM | #6 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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In addition, I believe you inserted Argon into the FoN chapter as well, so it would need to be changed there too.
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10-09-2017, 03:27 PM | #7 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,720
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True, and I found it there as well.
Respectfully Findegil |
10-09-2017, 07:38 PM | #8 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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I just realized, if we add the Battle of Lammoth into the story, must we not change the numbers of the later battles? from the Third to the Fourth etc? or is this to be like the later battle in the same region, which was considered too small to count?
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10-10-2017, 04:14 AM | #9 |
King's Writer
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,720
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I would say it is not one of the great numbered battles. Only a part of the Noldor were involved and it seemed to be a fast victory. There are other examples of battels not counted:
- The attack on Hithlum from the west - The first coming of Glaurung - The attack on Hithlum in which Galdor was killed - The attack on the Falas - The Fall of Dor-Cúrathol - The Fall of Nargothrond - The Fall of Gondolin The criterium seems to be how many of the Elves are involved. Respectfully Findegil |
10-10-2017, 09:30 AM | #10 |
Quentingolmo
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 525
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ok phew... I was not looking forward to trying to find all references to the number of great battles to change them
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