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#1 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 99
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Jacksonverse Elves during the War against the Balcoth
I know Gondor and the Eotheod was the main protaginists of the war, but in the movieverse, do you think Thranduil may perhaps assisted Men by sending a small squad lead by Legolas and Tauriel during the war? Because surely Thranduil did see the threat from the easterlings as very significant to his Woodland realm.
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#2 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,506
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But hey, a bizarre premise deserves further bizarre extrapolation further back into history. Simple minds make no effort at nuance or big picture strategy, and simply throw any amount of crap on a wall, hoping something will stick.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#3 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,854
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The invasion of Calenardhon by the Balchoth took place in 2510, actually before Erebor was reoccupied in 2590. Does that mean Thranduil would be less grumpy about foreigners? Or more, because he hadn't yet had the (forced) contact with Dale and Erebor. We'd probably need to know whether he also paid homage to Thrain I and Thorin I to figure this out. I only saw the Hobbit movies when they came out, so I find this one difficult to divine: is Thranduil a recent xenophobe, or is it a long-standing trait? We know he has bad experience with dragons, but that doesn't really answer the question. So, so - at least we can say that if he hates foreigners, he probably wouldn't lift a finger to help Gondor. Things are a bit more interesting if he was less of a grump back in the days of the Balchoth. The Greenwood wasn't darkened then (we saw very clearly that Sauron, the Nazgul, and the Spiders all arrived simultaneously right at the start of the movies, brutally traumatising poor Sebastian), so the Elvenking's domain (at least in his head) probably extended right to the southern eaves - right on the border with the lands the Balchoth emerged from to attack Calenardhon But... did Thranduil even have reason to hate them? We know that in the books, the Balchoth attacked with Orcish reinforcements, doing so only 50 years after Sauron's return to Dol Guldur; it seems reasonable to suppose a connection. But in the movies, Dol Guldur was still abandoned at the time of the attack. Might the Balchoth not have allied with the Orcs? In fact, might they have been at peace with Thranduil? Oh, yes, they invaded Rhovanion as the Wainriders, were driven back, then invaded again as the Balchoth (this is the Movieverse, ambiguity can go to Pot, they're clearly the same people) - but so what? Some Men squabbled with some other Men - what is that to the King of Greenwood the Great? As long as the wine keeps flowing from Dorwinion (down in what's definitely Balchoth territory), they can do what they like. So there's my answer, as overwrought and ludicrous as the situation demands: Thranduil would not aid Gondor (whose peasants scoff at the elves of Lorien) or the Eotheod (who keep intruding on the western parts of his domain) against the Balchoth (who sell him very lovely wine); he'd just sit tight and wait a few decades for it all to blow over. hS |
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#4 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 99
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When did Sauron returned to Dol Guldur in the books?
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I don't think it's plausible for Thranduil(movie)to have a secret deal or neutral with the easterlings. He definately would have sense that Sauron and dark forces were behind the sudden agressive invasion by men of Rhun, and knows the danger they bring to his Woodland Realm. But anway, do you think after the Battle of Five Armies, Thranduil may be more willing to have more interaction with Rohan or Dol Amroth? Weren't the Swan Knights more friendly to the elves than Gondor? |
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#5 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
Posts: 2,506
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No. They would have had no contact with Elves for centuries.
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#6 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 99
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But in the movieverse...
Thinking how much Jackson deviated from the books with the Hobbit, would it be possible to see Thranduil meeting up with Dol Amroth sometimes during the War of The Ring? Since they were omitted from ROTK, why not having them join forces with Woodland Realm fighting the orcs from Dol Guldur?
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#7 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,307
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All of Southern Mirkwood was under the control of the Necromancer, which means that having Thranduil come to the aid of Gondor vs the Balchoth pretty much doesn't work, unless they were to go by way of the Carrock and Lorien and come down from the north on the right bank (or swing around by way of Nearer Rhun!) Note that the Eotheod's passage was screened by Galadriel's mist, which implies that Dol Guldur was a very real threat even to swift-moving horsemen following Anduin, much less any Elves trying to move straight through the forest.
But if this is the Jacksonverse, then sure: have Legolas, Tauriel, Haldir, Elrond and Young Aragorn all turn up without explanation. Throw in Gandalf, and Bilbo's great^6 grandfather Pongo. Don't forget to have a dwarf to do pratfalls and belch.
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. Last edited by William Cloud Hicklin; 01-08-2018 at 07:05 AM. |
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#8 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,854
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I can't contrive any scenario which would lead the Prince of Dol Amroth to travel further than the distance to his nation's capital, in order to fight a less-important battle than the one happening in the Pelennor. |
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#9 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 99
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Dol Amroth
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#10 | |
Overshadowed Eagle
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: The north-west of the Old World, east of the Sea
Posts: 3,854
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Quote:
Or, I suppose, by heading up the west side of the Misty Mountains and taking either Caradhras or the High Pass... since we're in the Jacksonverse, anything's possible! Let's see... ~ The Age of Men is coming. The strength of the Elves is failing. War rages across Middle-earth, with hordes of vile creatures streaming out from Sauron's three strongholds: Orcs from Mordor, Uruk-Hai from Isengard, and Goblins from Dol Guldur. Minas Tirith stands against the Orcs. Rohan fights hard against the Uruks. But all that lies in the path of the Goblins are the peace-loving Elven kingdoms of Lorien and Mirkwood... Imrahil, half-elven prince of the fair city of Dol Amroth, cannot allow the lands of his ancestors to fall. Leaving his city to the depravations of the Corsairs of Umbar, he marches the proud Swan Knights north - past the White Mountains, past the Gap of Rohan, over the raging river Greyflood. He knows that the Balrog of Moria has been slain, and plans to lead his army through the deserted Mines to the liberation of Lorien, the rescue of Galadriel, and the destruction of Dol Guldur. But something waits in the dark... the Watcher has not abandoned its post, and in the narrow corridors of the Dwarrowdelf, it has become a terror beyond imagining. Will Imrahil make it out of the mountain alive, or will his cries ring from the foot of the Endless Stair to its peak? Find out in Peter Jackson's Middle-earth: Flight of the Swans - We Cannot Get Out, coming soon to a cinema near you! ~ ... I bet you never thought this line of questioning would lead to Middle-earth themed Lovecraftian horror, did you? ![]() (All in good fun, all in good fun...) hS |
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#11 | |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 99
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Quote:
![]() I was thinking IF a War of the North movie were to be made by WB and the actors protraying the elves from The Hobbit and LOTR, I would make Beregond that were omitted from ROTK be a different character in this film. Perhaps he could be a high ranking squad leader of a Ithilien guard squad operating in the areas around the Misty Mountain. A elite sub-unit from the Tower Guard battalion. Perhaps he encounters the elves of Loriena and Woodland Realm. In my opinion, it isn't impossible that such a thing could occur. |
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