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#1 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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Remember that made up character we all hate, who has the terribad romance subplot that we all hate with a beardless dwarf (shameful)?
I think it's possible for Jackson to be writing her off in the 150 minute battle movie. I'm estimating the actual Battle of the Five Armies will take around 45 minutes to an hour, which seems fair. What would they do in such a time frame? Obviously, they will have Thorin kill Azog, and die from his wounds, and Fili and Kili will die defending him, but what if Tauriel also died near the start, to give Kili even more motivation and drive to keep fighting? It would please the fans, because it would satisfy their shipping needs, and would satisfy the haters, because she dies. Win/win situation here. Thoughts? |
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#2 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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One can hope, I suppose.
I would say that there isn't much else for the character to do, but that would presuppose that there was something for the character to do to begin with.
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#3 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 21
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If that happens the film should end with Legolas cradling Tauriel in his arms doing his best Darth Vader 'nooooo'. Plus the battle should have multiple Wilhelm screams.
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#4 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin
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That dwarf-elf quasi-flirt-romance thing is just terrible- and I say that as half of a mixed-race marriage, myself.
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#5 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
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Alternate Scenario
Kili dies.
TAURIEL: Hmm, maybe I do love Legolas better after all. LEGOLAS: Really? Will you marry me? TAURIEL: I could barely wait for you to ask! [PG-16] And they lived happily ever after. LEGOLAS FANGIRLS: Noooooooooooo!!!!!!! MUAHAHAHA!!!
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#6 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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Don't know why I even bother, given the lack of sense in any of these movies
![]() How is Tauriel's likely death going to affect Legolas' feelings towards Dwarves? Legolas can't be too friendly with Dwarves by the end of The Hobbit, nor too hostile. In FotR, Legolas is somewhat antagonistic to Gimli, but by Lothlorien, they are starting to become friends (at least in the extended addition). Can't remember at Rivendell Legolas even acknowledging Gloin's presence.
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#7 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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One wonders what they are going to do with the Seventh Doctor, that is to say Rrrrrrrrradagast the Brrrrrrrrrrown, as well. Not very glorious for him to 'disappear' like he more or less does after meeting Gandalf in The Lord of the Rings, is it? He can hardly declare at the end of the inevitable Dol Guldur rescue sequence: "Ooh dear me Gandalf, this has all been very frightening. I'm going to go into hiding now. See you when I see you," and scamper off, can he?
The thread topic actually rather struck me in terms of how much the Tauriel character embodies the 'Hobbit' films as adaptations compared to those of The Lord of the Rings. Here we find an entirely invented character given significant screentime and even a plot of her own. The nearest equivalent, if memory serves, would be the unnecessary character of 'Mardil' as Faramir's offsider in the second and third films of The Lord of the Rings (what was wrong with Damrod and/or Mablung?). Yet 'Mardil' is extremely minor as things go, and doesn't have his own plot in any sense of the word. Nonetheless his death scene rather makes me think that PJ's Azog is in a sense a rehash of his Gothmog. This in itself is a failure to understand a major notion in Tolkien's work, in my opinion: of the Orc as representative of the utterly degraded conscript-soldier. Focusing on 'leaders' and big, muscly, villainous Orc-generals who get to chat with Sauron and the Ringwraiths completely misses the point Tolkien achieves by providing us with the discourse of low-ranking officers like Shagrat and Gorbag for whom the situation is completely out of their control. I digress... It's just striking how moot a point it is whether 'Tauriel' lives or dies: we know she's not in PJ's The Lord of the Rings, which highlights the absurdity of introducing a new character in a prequel whom we already know has no bearing whatsoever upon how things play out in the long run, and then putting them in the spotlight. If she's used to motivate Kíli (and possibly bring about his own death) then it's just emblematic of how the writers have utterly failed to capitalise upon the very bones they were thrown by the text, which they have show by such decisions as leaving Thorin's relationship to his nephews as, thus far, a line or two of dialogue. I honestly felt one of the most interesting 'invented' moments in 'The Desolation of Smaug' was when Thorin told Fíli that he would be king one day and have to face tough decisions. Not something Professor Tolkien would probably write about, but at least they were using material that was already there and thus actually fitted the story, rather than inventing ideas which inevitably do not fit the existing narrative they are nonetheless trying to follow, thus distorting it. There's a moment in Moria in the Extended Edition of 'The Fellowship of the Ring' where I believe Gandalf mentions Thorin by name when recalling Bilbo's dwarf-mail. No one ever says anything about 'Tauriel' or Radagast or 'That time sixty years ago when Sauron, who we're now saying has just reappeared, sent a huge army to attack the Lonely Mountain' and despite supposedly having been 'entombed' until very recently the Ringwraiths already rule Minas Morgul. An effective Hobbit-as-prequel would have been one which was actually a prequel (explaining how Bilbo got to where he was, mostly) and not one which tries to tell a story which is, in a sense, bigger and more climactic than the very tale it is meant to precede.
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#8 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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I will give PJ that Riddles in the Dark was fantastic, but if you try to outdo something which has a much bigger scale and higher stakes by nature, you will fail. Tauriel was probably put there to appease the female audience, all of which don't care that there are no females in Middle Earth, because they're too busy cooking and cleaning to be part of the action, save 2. By killing Tauriel, everyone wins, and if Tauriel dies a dwarf-lover, Legolas would ease to the idea, which works well-ish. PJ made a lot of mistakes by bringing Azog back to life, inventing new characters everywhere, and taking 'artistic license' for what you can't really change. If you want to change up the story, make a parody, or an interpretation in a different setting. Don't try and change what was already complete. |
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#9 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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If Radagast is such a major player when Bilbo finds the Ring, why is he so absent when Frodo goes to destroy it? Kind of like Gandalf's Anti-Nazgul flashnight not being available when he and Pip are being abused on the White Tower by the W-K.
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#10 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
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I still haven't subjected myself to the TH films, but the plot complications brought by introducing characters independent of the source material, or away from the original author's intent, are well illustrated here, especially when you're doing it in a prequel to films you've already released.
Oh well. George Lucas voided himself all over his excellent original trilogy by monkeying with the prequels in that way, and was none the worse for it financially. Jackson's hardly treading on unknown ground. ![]()
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#11 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
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One can only hope for the expedited demise of the entire ensemble cast.
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#12 | |
Dead Serious
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#13 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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I hope Jackson never reads this.
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#14 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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#15 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Henneth Annûn, Ithilien
Posts: 462
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I just wonder what kind of hallucinogen Radaghast is on.
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#16 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 265
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A short saying oft contains much wisdom. ~Sophocles |
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#17 |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Heaven's basement
Posts: 2,466
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After Radagast saves Gandalf from Dol Guldur, the writers could have the Brown one bunny-sled into the Battle of the Five* Armies. He could then see Tauriel and Bilbo both be wounded, and he then has to make a choice: save the elf or hobbit with his Stone of Darkness Absorption. What to do?
Following Kili's romantically tragic death (from a Morgul paper cut), Tauriel sacrifices herself and instructs Radagast to save Bilbo instead, as 'he will bring peace to Middle Earth.' Radagast holds the elf maid until she dies (with the appropriate amount of glowing), and then burns himself, his staff and the Arkenstone out saving Bilbo. In the aftermath (and 10 hours of constant battle), the Brown wizard meets with Gandalf. For once he's not silly. His staff is shattered, that stone thing he uses is gone, and the Arkenstone shines no more. After witnessing so much humanoid and bunny death and destruction, he states that he's retreating to Rhosgobel after letting Gandalf know that he wasn't up for such tasks. Or something. *Actual number of warring parties may vary. ![]()
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There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.
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#18 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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#19 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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Raise your hands if you think Smaug will somehow still be alive or be resurrected for the battle!
o/
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#20 |
Laconic Loreman
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I've been pulling for movie-Radagast to get the same treatment as book-Radagast. And that is to just completely drop out of the story and disappear without explanation. It would at least be fitting and probably the only accurate thing PJ does in the last movie.
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Fenris Penguin
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#21 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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You know Radagast will be involved. You know it, and you hate it. PJ is going to force him with his rabbit-sled into the Battle of the Five Armies.
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#22 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 145
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Maybe we'll find some interesting side effect from whatever Radagast has been feeding them - like they turn from fast, furry friends to ... ![]() (oh, those poor, surprised, wargs---- actually ---- maybe the rabbits will be the way Beorn breaks through Bolg's bodyguard of orcs during the battle. [the rabbits go berzerk and wipe out a mass of wargs holding Beorn in check]. I mean, it's not in the book - but when has that stopped PJ from a "plot twist" - especially if it "lets the fur fly". ![]() |
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#23 | |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,357
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#24 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 145
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Quote:
![]() Picture Sebastian ambling through the battle, perhaps oblivious due to <well> whatever Radagast has been feeding him, and wargs getting wide eyes as they start in shock and turn tail in terror [in the process, trampling the orc that was about to kill Tauriel - allowing PJ to have her survive - only do die of a broken heart when Kili doesn't]. |
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#25 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,989
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Radagast will have a huge scene where he pleads for the life of the dragon Smaug, as not so much a bad spawn of Satan or bad banker but simply a misunderstood animal. PETA will be the acknowledged advisors for this scene, because without them the RRabbits would have been fed to the dragon.
This earnest pleading earns him such loathing from the dwarves that he is pelted with rotten mushrooms and bird dung and runs away. The smell of him attracts some orcs who break away from the battle to catch hi--thereby saving the day and allowing the good guys to win--but he falls down a rabbit hole and meets the Red Queen who promptly proclaims, "Off with his head". Luckily he discovers that some of the rotten mushroom stuck to him is edible and it shrinks him so she can no longer see him, thereby saving him for his non-appearance in LotR.
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#26 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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Along with Tauriel, PJ will also kill of Legolas, then promptly bring him back to life with Radagast's healing crystal.
It makes perfect sense. |
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#27 | |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
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And your little sister's immaculate virginity wings away on the bony shoulders of a young horse named George who stole surreptitiously into her geography revision. |
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#28 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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Now that the new trailer is out, I think it's safe to say that the terrible romance subplot is going to be forced upon us once again. I really hope that Tauriel is nowhere near Kili when he dies, because if she is, it's just going to be disgusting.
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#29 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I'm under the impression that the rock handing scene happened while Kili was dying.
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#30 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#31 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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People are allowed to like their favourite characters, unless the character never existed. Screw Tauriel, she's a terrible plot device which should just be eaten by Smaug for some reason. |
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#32 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#33 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,307
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With any luck, Morgoth will return through the Door of Night, having developed a 5-megaton thermonuclear warhead with which he puts all of PJ's moronic characters out of our misery......
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
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#34 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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This thread... such a graveyard of buried hopes.
![]() *weeps silently*
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#35 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Yeah, Smaug being resurrected could only have made things better.
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