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#1 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: That aint your buisness
Posts: 17
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What is the difference between Orcs and Goblins, or are Orcs a type of goblin? In the Hobbit it says that Sting glows blue in the presence of goblins. But, in Lord of the Rings, it is said that Sting glows blue in the presence of Orcs. What's with that?
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#2 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London
Posts: 161
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My opinion only without consulting me books is that, they're pretty much the same, goblins not being as big and obtuse as orcs, but they are both foes of the elves, and I think, causing sting to glow at the presence of both
[ December 07, 2002: Message edited by: Judge Simon ]
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#3 | ||||
A Northern Soul
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Valinor
Posts: 1,847
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Orcs are goblins. They're the same. 'Goblins' is the term Tolkien uses to describe the smaller orcs through Chapter 3: Uruk-hai of The Two Towers. These smaller orcs have come from the Mines of Moria in the Misty Mountains - just as the orcs in The Hobbit, making the use of the term consistent, while the orcs (including Uruk-hai) from Isengard are referred to as 'orcs'. You may recall the confrontation between Uglśk (Isengarder) and Grishnįkh (goblin from the north). Grishnįkh tells us where he is from:
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Letter 151: Quote:
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#4 |
Wight
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: With Tux, dread poodle of Pinnath Galin
Posts: 239
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Well, it mostly comes down to terminology as JRRT struggled to interpret the Red Book and deal with the incomplete knowledge that the Wise couldn't help but have about the Dark Powers. As I like to point out, Morgoth did not release any type of Diary. I side with JRRT's first inclination, that severe mutilation, corruption and so forth of early Elves was the source of the base matter for Orc life, which Morgoth could not create. I see this as strictly material, not spiritual, and the soul of these early Elven victims were released to Mandos. Whatever spirit inhabits the body of any Orc, I would consider it to be only the perpetuation of some demonic energy that Morgoth added to the mix. Whatever other material or animation was introduced or bred into Orcs (or later manifestations, such as the Uruk-Hai) who can say. By the Elder Days, it may have included Men (especially Druedain), Dwarves, animals or ancient fell creatures.
Saruman appears to have been the first to introduce Orc traits into another people with his human hybrids, which are variously called Goblin-men, Orc-men and Half-Orcs. As for Goblins, I consider that not only a variant term for all run-of-the-mill Orcs, but also more properly a term for that subset of Orcs that were of smaller size and tended to live in vast subterrainean places in the Northern Mountains, but were also best able to self-perpetuate themselves without the assistance of the Evil Powers. Hobgoblins might then be a sub-variety of this variety, such as Bolg, Azog and the Great Goblin that were of Uruk-like size. It seems from the Books that Orcs were far from uniform in terms of both tribal markers and physical form.
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The hoes unrecked in the fields were flung, __ and fallen ladders in the long grass lay __ of the lush orchards; every tree there turned __ its tangled head and eyed them secretly, __ and the ears listened of the nodding grasses; __ though noontide glowed on land and leaf, __ their limbs were chilled. |
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#5 | ||
Deadnight Chanter
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just a bit of comment:
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the sentence you refer to belongs to some unnamed orc Quote:
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