Why are the Elves and Dwarves so hostile to eachother? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Mayla Took · 06-15-2002, 11:08 PM

I don't really understand why the Elves and the Dwarves have such a harsh relationship. Is it because of the whole secret creation of the Dwarves that was mentioned in the Sil?

Imperica · 06-15-2002, 11:25 PM

Perhaps because of the slaying of King Thingol in Doriath by the Dwarves. If you remember the Dwarves stole the Nauglamir (sp???) and were on their way back to the Blue Mountains and were assailed by Green Elves of Ossiriand and Beren.

(Please forgive me if I am wrong about this, it's been awhile)

burrahobbit · 06-16-2002, 12:09 AM

You are partly right, Imperica, but it goes deeper than that.

It is because Elves and Dwarves both love trees.

The thing about that is that Elves love to live in trees, and that Dwarves like to catch them on fire.

The above is not a complete answer.

Dwarin Thunderhammer · 06-16-2002, 12:31 AM

And trees love Dwarves, just the other day I was driving and this tree jumped right out on the freeway, bit my car, and dragged me off the road. And the officer said I was drunk..... boy was he wrong

orlandoandsaran · 06-16-2002, 01:24 AM

Hahahaa
LOL, dwarin
[img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

lathspell · 06-16-2002, 06:10 AM

I think it's both those answers, burra!
The love of trees wasn't the only reason, there has been much inconvenience between the elves and the dwarves. The destruction of Doriath is one of the greater ones. Also the 'too deep delving in moria' was one, I believe. For afterwards the elves had to leave Eregion. Nevertheless the relationship seems to improve after the War of the Ring and Bilbo's adventure...
- Gimli is let into Lothlorien, he is the first to enter it after the coming of the Balrog in moria.
- The relationship between Legolas and Gimli.
- Dain Ironfoot who established peace with both the men of Dale and the Elves of Mirkwood.

So it seems that many relationships that were forgotten are returning again at last. And all this because of the finding of the Ring by Bilbo.

'Often help may come from the weak when the Wise falter.'

greetings,
lathspell

Kuruharan · 06-16-2002, 09:39 AM

The Dwarves thought that the Elves were a bunch of stuck up, prissy snots. The Elves thought that the Dwarves were a bunch of short, ugly mutants.

Tolkien did mention this attitude in his discussion of the relations between Caranthir and the Dwarves. Those were essentially the attitudes that each brought to the table.

However, as with many things in life, since there was money to be made so both sides tolerated each other (and gleefully made money off each other).

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-16-2002, 11:47 AM

Elves also see Dwarves as being greedy thieves. If you remember Legolas thought Dwarves would destroy the Glimmering Caves, but Gimli assured him they wouldn't.

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 06-16-2002, 11:52 AM

They just disagree on everything.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-16-2002, 12:50 PM

like some siblings I know.

akhtene · 06-16-2002, 03:29 PM

If you mention family relations, then it can be the eternal argument 'who is the eldest'
Dwarves were created before elves, but put to sleep until the Elder Children would awake. So which is really the eldest race in M-E?

Lush · 06-16-2002, 05:35 PM

The Elves were just too shallow for a couple of milennia there. So what if the Dwarves didn't have perfect skin and good grooming habits? Sheesh, ya know?

TarElendil · 06-16-2002, 05:50 PM

their personalities were so different that there were bound to be problems. One reason there is hostility between the races is because Thingol was slain by the dwarves and they were responsible(as was thingol) along with the orcs for the ruin of doriath. The dwarves responsible for the destruction of doriath i believe were those out of Belegost and Nagrod, yet mnay elves held a grudge with the whol dwarf race including those of moria, who aided them in the battles of eriador. Another obvious one isthey awoke the balrog in moria.

06-15-2002, 11:08 PM	#1
Mayla Took Wight Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Shire Posts: 152	Why are the Elves and Dwarves so hostile to eachother? I don't really understand why the Elves and the Dwarves have such a harsh relationship. Is it because of the whole secret creation of the Dwarves that was mentioned in the Sil? __________________ Good Things Come in Small Packages. (And don't you forget it!) Pippin:"What is that?!?" Merry:"This, my friend, is a pint!" Pippin:"It comes in PINTS?!?....I'm getting one!" "Don't let your heads get too big for your hats! But if you don't finish growing up soon, you are going to find hats and clothes expensive." Bilbo to Merry and Pippin "Fool of a Took! This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party. Throw yourself in next time, and then you will be no further nuisance. Now be quiet!" Gandalf to Pippin in Moria E-mail me at mailto:ThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.comThirdAgeHobbit@hotmail.com</A> Oh, and please rate me. THANKS!

06-16-2002, 12:09 AM	#3
burrahobbit Hidden Spirit Join Date: May 2000 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,424	You are partly right, Imperica, but it goes deeper than that. It is because Elves and Dwarves both love trees. The thing about that is that Elves love to live in trees, and that Dwarves like to catch them on fire. The above is not a complete answer. __________________ What's a burrahobbit got to do with my pocket, anyways?

06-16-2002, 12:31 AM	#4
Dwarin Thunderhammer Khazad-Doomed Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Green Dragon Posts: 182	And trees love Dwarves, just the other day I was driving and this tree jumped right out on the freeway, bit my car, and dragged me off the road. And the officer said I was drunk..... boy was he wrong __________________ “Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd aimênu!” Come visit The Rohan RPG! The only RPG to fanfic on the downs! Without law there can be no freedom. Without justice there can be no law.

06-16-2002, 01:24 AM	#5
orlandoandsaran Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Greenwood Home Posts: 91	Hahahaa LOL, dwarin [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ Vor\|otwen Bloom spouse of Orlando Bloom.

06-16-2002, 06:10 AM	#6
lathspell Regenerating Ringkeeper Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Holland Posts: 757	I think it's both those answers, burra! The love of trees wasn't the only reason, there has been much inconvenience between the elves and the dwarves. The destruction of Doriath is one of the greater ones. Also the 'too deep delving in moria' was one, I believe. For afterwards the elves had to leave Eregion. Nevertheless the relationship seems to improve after the War of the Ring and Bilbo's adventure... - Gimli is let into Lothlorien, he is the first to enter it after the coming of the Balrog in moria. - The relationship between Legolas and Gimli. - Dain Ironfoot who established peace with both the men of Dale and the Elves of Mirkwood. So it seems that many relationships that were forgotten are returning again at last. And all this because of the finding of the Ring by Bilbo. 'Often help may come from the weak when the Wise falter.' greetings, lathspell __________________ 'You?' cried Frodo. 'Yes, I, Gandalf the Grey,' said the wizard solemnly. 'There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.'

06-15-2002, 11:25 PM	#2
Imperica Animated Skeleton Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 35	Perhaps because of the slaying of King Thingol in Doriath by the Dwarves. If you remember the Dwarves stole the Nauglamir (sp???) and were on their way back to the Blue Mountains and were assailed by Green Elves of Ossiriand and Beren. (Please forgive me if I am wrong about this, it's been awhile)

06-16-2002, 09:39 AM	#7
Kuruharan Regal Dwarven Shade Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold Posts: 3,589	The Dwarves thought that the Elves were a bunch of stuck up, prissy snots. The Elves thought that the Dwarves were a bunch of short, ugly mutants. Tolkien did mention this attitude in his discussion of the relations between Caranthir and the Dwarves. Those were essentially the attitudes that each brought to the table. However, as with many things in life, since there was money to be made so both sides tolerated each other (and gleefully made money off each other). __________________ ...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no...

06-16-2002, 11:47 AM	#8
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	Elves also see Dwarves as being greedy thieves. If you remember Legolas thought Dwarves would destroy the Glimmering Caves, but Gimli assured him they wouldn't. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-16-2002, 11:52 AM	#9
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	They just disagree on everything. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

06-16-2002, 12:50 PM	#10
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	like some siblings I know. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!

06-16-2002, 03:29 PM	#11
akhtene Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2002 Location: stronghold of the North Posts: 390	If you mention family relations, then it can be the eternal argument 'who is the eldest' Dwarves were created before elves, but put to sleep until the Elder Children would awake. So which is really the eldest race in M-E? __________________ Где найти мне сил, чтобы вернуться через века, Чтобы ты - простил?.. А трава разлуки высока...

06-16-2002, 05:35 PM	#12
Lush Fair and Cold Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: the big onion Posts: 1,770	The Elves were just too shallow for a couple of milennia there. So what if the Dwarves didn't have perfect skin and good grooming habits? Sheesh, ya know? __________________ ~The beginning is the word and the end is silence. And in between are all the stories. This is one of mine~

06-16-2002, 05:50 PM	#13
TarElendil Wight Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Armenelos Posts: 136	their personalities were so different that there were bound to be problems. One reason there is hostility between the races is because Thingol was slain by the dwarves and they were responsible(as was thingol) along with the orcs for the ruin of doriath. The dwarves responsible for the destruction of doriath i believe were those out of Belegost and Nagrod, yet mnay elves held a grudge with the whol dwarf race including those of moria, who aided them in the battles of eriador. Another obvious one isthey awoke the balrog in moria.