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04-09-2006, 07:18 PM | #1 |
Wight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
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What New Evils Was Sauron Forging?
During the Council of Elrond, Boromir states that, "the nameless enemy has arisen once again. Smoke rises once more from Orodruin that we call Mount Doom."
Was Sauron up to new tricks? Forging new rings, perhaps? Possibly Saruman's ring was tied to the new works in Mt. Doom? Or the rings "like those of old" promised to the swaves of Dale?
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04-09-2006, 11:37 PM | #2 | |
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He never made more Rings. Indeed Sauron made only one--the One Ring that Frodo destroyed. The Seven and the Nine and the Three were all made by Celebrimbor, a descendant of Feanor. The Seven and the Nine were made with Annatar's help; the Three Celebrimbor made himself without Annatar knowing. The seven and the Three were given by Sauron to Dwarves and Men, but the Three were hidden and dispersed to Gilgalad, Galadriel, and Cirdan, and eventually Elrond, Galadriel, and Gandalf. Sauron suspected them, but since they never used the rings (or so i think) he never was sure.
According to Wiki: Quote:
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04-10-2006, 12:20 AM | #3 |
Haunting Spirit
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In my opinion, Sauron used the Orodruin first as a psychological weapon. A mountain, which spread fire, ashes, darkness was surely a uncertainty for the people of Gondor. It is the only one in the known world and always connected with the evil and with the darkness of the Enemy.
And maybe he prepared his 'assault of darkness', which came just before the Battle of the Pelennor with these eruptions.
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04-10-2006, 02:08 AM | #4 |
A Mere Boggart
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Firstly, Saruman made his own ring of power independently, using his extensive knowledge of Ring Lore to create it. By doing this he hoped to operate as an independent force in Middle-earth; it was Saruman's 'Third Way', as he hoped this would place him not on the side of Light, but also not on the side of Sauron.
The darkness which accompanied Sauron's forces into Gondor must have been produced by Mount Doom, and is possibly a good reason for him 'firing it up' again; I often wonder if that darkness was as a result of pyroclastic flow, as it sounds in some ways very similar to the volcanic effects seen at Pompeii and other famous volcanic eruptions. Now there's another question in that did Sauron 'control' Mount Doom in any way? Or did he return only once it had begun to be active again? Or was his return the catalyst in its becoming active once more? Sorry, that was actually three questions...
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04-10-2006, 07:35 AM | #5 | |
Wight
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Quote:
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www.scottchristiancarr.com They passed slowly, and the hobbits could see the starlight glimmering on their hair and in their eyes. |
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04-10-2006, 09:16 AM | #6 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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That's got a familiar Ring to it
There is no evidence to say Sauron helped Saruman or not, the only thing we know is that Saruman say's: For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker , and he was'nt advertising as a jeweller.
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04-10-2006, 09:36 AM | #7 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
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Quote:
I would agree however that he was twiddling with Mount Doom to create smokes and vapors for the upcoming war. The smog that Sauron releases for the Battle of the Pelennor fields not only blotted out the sun (aiding his folk who forgot their sunscreen and parasols) but also contained some poison for the psyche, making men needlessly despair. And wasn't the Dark Plague hatched inside Orodruin, or am I reading too much into that?
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Last edited by alatar; 04-15-2006 at 07:41 AM. |
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04-10-2006, 01:56 PM | #8 | |
A Mere Boggart
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I think one of the most essential aspects to Saruman's character was his sense of independence, even if in the end this was an illusion as he had been trapped from looking into the palantir. Each of the Istari came to Middle-earth with the mission to help overturn Sauron and each had his own way of achieving this end. Saruman chose to do this by exercising what was obviously an incredible intellect. He believed that his Ring Lore would be vital in achieving this end.
Even once he was 'caught' by Sauron, he may have truly believed that he was in the right by seekng to use his intellect and challenge Sauron. The joke on him at the end (or is it a tragedy?) is that Sauron fooled him; there never would have been an opportunity for Saruman to truly challenge Sauron and try another way. It's still interesting to think whether Sauron taught him how to make his own Ring of Power, but I think that Saruman trying to make it of his own volition is more appropriate to his character. Quote:
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04-10-2006, 03:02 PM | #9 | |
Doubting Dwimmerlaik
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"Is that a Balrog painted the White Wizard's sword hilt? Nah, cannot be. Why, he's only three feet tall and sitting on a white poofy rabbit...I can take him..." And just who thought it a good idea to build downwind from one of the few (if not only) active volcanoes in the region?
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04-10-2006, 03:27 PM | #10 |
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What we see when great multitudes of smoke start to drift out of Mount Doom during the War of the Ring, is another classic example of an evil conception on Sauron's part. This is a slightly re-occurring theme, since Melkor did the exact same thing when he was being assailed in his fortress of Angband by the forces of Fëanor. It can be viewed as an attempt to strike fear into the opponent (a physiological weapon as A_Brandybuck rightly mentioned) and to act as a smoke screen to avoid the eyes of spies and as a way for the armies of Mordor to enter and leave the Black Land undetected so as to gain an upper-advantage on the enemy who would be at unawares. Maybe the fires of Orodruin were in great tumult as they were being utilised as a source of developing Sauron's armies (e.g. making armour and weaponry with the fires it provided).
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04-20-2006, 11:15 PM | #11 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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Quote:
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Now I guess onto the question. Can the quote be taken more symbolically? As in if "there's smoke rising" meaning actions stirred up in Mordor again? Perhaps it's more of a metaphorical thing...or maybe both. There's actual physical smoke and then the though of Mordor is rebuilding, Sauron is back and is stirring up again.
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04-22-2006, 02:44 PM | #12 | |
Mischievous Candle
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I like looking the Middle-earth's biological and geographical phenomenons from a scientific point of view. In a way it makes Arda feel more real if its laws of nature even occasionally correspond with ours. But still, it's a world where eagles can carry people and dead men can be summoned to a war, so many things are explained by the fact that it is a story.
Lalwendë brought up a question (or three of them ) about Sauron's controll over Orodruin. I think Mount Doom starting to act up again was more due to the kind of magic that you see in Middle-earth than what Sauron would physically have done to the mountain. Also, as has already been mentioned, the active volcano was one sort of a weapon. I think the volcanic fumes that it belched were intentional and useful by themselves rather than byproducts of something Sauron was doing by using the mountain or just a convenient coincidence. Quote:
If Sauron would have made other ways to channel lava out of the mountain, I think it would rather have had a soothing than upsetting effect on the volcano. A volcano like Mount Doom could easily have caused something to the effect of nuclear winter. However, in real life small particles that a volcano has emitted can stay up in the stratosphere absorbing and reflecting the sunlight even for years making the temperatures drop world-wide. If the darkness that Sauron conjured up had been purely something like that, would 1420 have been such a wonderful year in the Shire?
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