My quest to understand The Sil - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Voronwen Amatiriel Cuile · 06-20-2002, 12:58 PM

i'm not very far through it yet, but this talk of the Secret Fire is confusing me slightly. i remember Gandalf saying that he served it, and it was with Iluvatar/Eru in the begining, but did he create it? and what is it, exactly? some kind of powerful essence or some thing tangible?

Joy · 06-20-2002, 02:46 PM

Voronwen, take a look at this thread. It has a lot of suggestions on it.

Gandalf's Speech to the Balrog

**lindil** · 06-21-2002, 01:43 AM

Somewhere [HoME ? Letters ?} JRRT lets slip that it is the Holy Spirit.

Just came across it about a week ago maybe it is in the aforementioned thread.

Thalionyulma · 06-21-2002, 02:41 AM

JRRT faith has always been apparent in his works. Unfortunately, we are left to our assumptions/interpretations to what they could mean.

Quote:

"You cannot pass. I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udûn. Go back to the Shadow! You cannot pass."

Anor I believe is the (Sindarin?) word for Sun. I can still be corrected on this. Secret Fire could therefore be attributed to Illuvatar, or the“Imperishable Flame”. As Gandalf was a Maia, it would be natural that he served the “Secret Fire”.
As to what this “Secret Fire” actually is – well, as I recall in the Sil it was said that Illuvatar gave the Ainur’s vision Being (meaning their song was made into existence), and that it was set into the Void and the Secret Fire was sent to burn at the heart of the World. And thus the World was created.
The Secret Fire would be the Flame of Life, in a sense.

(Hmmm… could this be the “Force” in Star Wars?…ooops sorry, my mind was wandering again!) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Yes, it could mean the Holy Spirit – since in the creation of the World, the Holy Spirit was one w/ God the Father and the Son, and through His Will the all things came into being.

Jessica Jade · 06-21-2002, 11:49 AM

Thanks for the great thread, Joy! I just revived it. It really discusses this topic throughly. Everyone who wants to know more about the Secret Fire, go to that thread!

Joy · 06-21-2002, 03:22 PM

Lindil,

Quote:

Somewhere [HoME ? Letters ?} JRRT lets slip that it is the Holy Spirit.
Just came across it about a week ago maybe it is in the aforementioned thread.

Even though I had only read LotR and the first 4 chapters ot the Hobbit, that was my speculation. I read through the afore mentioned post and saw referecences to the "Flame Impershible" and to the creation of Arda. This is from whence I drew my conclusion.

Now, I am glad to have that issue settled in my mind.

Aldagrim Proudfoot · 06-21-2002, 03:43 PM

If it is supposed to represent the Holy Spirit, I think it would be the Imperishable Flame, since Iluvatar gave it to the Ainur and the Holy Spirit goes with us.

06-20-2002, 12:58 PM	#1
Voronwen Amatiriel Cuile Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: No-where-ville: trust me, you dont care:-) Posts: 17	My quest to understand The Sil i'm not very far through it yet, but this talk of the Secret Fire is confusing me slightly. i remember Gandalf saying that he served it, and it was with Iluvatar/Eru in the begining, but did he create it? and what is it, exactly? some kind of powerful essence or some thing tangible? __________________ "Sing and be glad, all ye children of the West, for your King shall come again, and he shall dwell amoung you all the days of your life."

06-20-2002, 02:46 PM	#2
Joy Spirit of a Warrior Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Wandering Posts: 1,012	Voronwen, take a look at this thread. It has a lot of suggestions on it. Gandalf's Speech to the Balrog __________________ God bless, Joy KingdomWarrior@hotmail.com http://kingdomWarrior.jlym.com As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God. My soul thirsteth for God, for the living God: when shall I come and appear before God?

06-21-2002, 01:43 AM	#3
lindil Seeker of the Straight Path Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: a hidden fastness in Big Valley nor cal Posts: 1,680	Somewhere [HoME ? Letters ?} JRRT lets slip that it is the Holy Spirit. Just came across it about a week ago maybe it is in the aforementioned thread. __________________ The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night exchanging lore & wisdom such as they still possessed that they should not fall back into the mean estate of those who never knew or indeed rebelled against the Light.

06-21-2002, 11:49 AM	#5
Jessica Jade Wight Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Tirion upon Túna, Atlanta Posts: 154	Thanks for the great thread, Joy! I just revived it. It really discusses this topic throughly. Everyone who wants to know more about the Secret Fire, go to that thread! __________________ http://www.cadential64.com The musicians had indeed laid bare the youngest, most innocent of our ideas of life, the indestructible yearning for the way things aren't and can never be. ~ Philip Roth, The Human Stain

06-21-2002, 03:43 PM	#7
Aldagrim Proudfoot Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hobbiton Posts: 328	If it is supposed to represent the Holy Spirit, I think it would be the Imperishable Flame, since Iluvatar gave it to the Ainur and the Holy Spirit goes with us. __________________ I do not suffer from insanity. I enjoy every minute of it!