LOTR Addicts - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 08-15-2002, 10:48 AM

Something kind of puzzles me. I have always thought of fighting, and killing, and swords, and quests, to appeal to a male's sense of taste more so than a females. Therefore, I would think LOTR would appeal more to males(That's what <em>I</em> think).

If my theory/sceme/estimation/ect. has any truth to it, I would expect there to be more male Downers than female. However, there seem to be many more female downers than I would have expected. Or rather, a lot fewer male Downers than I would have expected. The latter being more accurate. What do you think?

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Gimli Son Of Gloin ]

Davin · 08-15-2002, 11:38 AM

LotR doesn't (in my opinion..I am a guy, just so ya know) doesn't interest me because of the weapons, the killing, and all that stuff (even though I do enjoy it...probably a bit too much...hehe). It has to do with the way Tolkien wrote his books. I can't really describe what attracts me to LotR so much....the characters and storyline just fascinates me. But everyone is sure to have a different reason for liking LotR.

Galadel Vinorel · 08-15-2002, 11:58 AM

I love LOTR, even though I am a girl. Most girls, though, just like it because of the actors that acted in FOTR. I like it because it fascinates me how Tolkien wrote this AMAZING books. The are unlike any that I have ever read. He created MANY languages, and a whole history to Middle Earth. I wish that he was still alive so that I could sit down and talk to him about Middle Earth. Do you ralize how much information about Middle Earth and such that he probally took to his grave?! To me, Tolkien is, well, AMAZING!! He created a whole new world, which few people have ever done. It was like our world, except different. The beauty and the sorrow of ME co-existed together, and that is what seems to draw me into this encanting and sorrowful world. I don't really care about all that fighting and such, but I do not think, Gimli, that it fair for you to say that girls would not like that, for I know that I do. I wish that I could learn to swordfight. And, I know many other girls who would like to learn how to swordfight as well. We are NOT all prissy little girls that only think about makeup and boys and clothes all the time. Trust me, I think about all of that stuff very seldomly, and I'm a teenager. What you said at the begginning of your statement is not true!! And, I take much offense at it, and I bet that many other girls on this site do as well. So, there. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Aroaraniel · 08-15-2002, 12:16 PM

I'm a girl and I love LOTR!! I like the adventure, and the character, and the fact that Tolkien built this whole new world for others to explore!! And I also must note that although I'm a girl, the gore and battle doesn't bother me at all. In fact, in the movie, the action sequences were my favorite. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Legolas · 08-15-2002, 01:04 PM

I'd say that the dedicated fan population probably leans towards the male side a bit, but with the movie coming out, a lot of females are drawn in by a) the 'gorgeous' actors and b) the 'chick-flick' appeal that is there in the movie (Frodo and the way he's presented as frail and sensitive). These newer fans still have the fresh wonder about them and came to the internet looking for information and people that shared their interest, hence the 'new' wave of female forum members.

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ]

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 08-15-2002, 01:27 PM

Galadel, I cannot see at all how my post could possibly be offensive to a female.

Galadel Vinorel · 08-15-2002, 01:36 PM

Gimli, you are implying through your post that we females are weak, and that we don't like fighting and such. But, I will give you a break dear Gimli, and be nice to you. See ya around!! [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

Ms. Took · 08-15-2002, 01:37 PM

I love Lord of the Rings, even though i am a girl. Sure the actors are hot but thats just a bonus. I started reading the books before the movie came out, and i really just like the adventure and excitement of tolkiens world.

08-15-2002, 01:53 PM

It makes perfect sense that women and men both should adore the story --

The heart of Tolkien's work is love. Think of how much a love story the LOTR truly is. It is a sweeping tale of love - love between friends, love of hearth and home, love of lands and peoples you have never seen but must protect against certain death and destruction. Think of how much love there is between the various characters: Sam and Frodo, Merry and Pippin, Aragorn and Arwen, Eowyn and Faramir, Gimli and Legolas, Aragorn and the hobbits, the Ents for their trees (and long lost Entwives!).

Yes it has swordfighting and killing and wizards and goblins, etc. - but they are not the driving force of the story. It is a sweeping saga in which any person, man or woman, can find themselves immediately and inextricably immersed! It appeals to everyone! No matter that there aren't many female characters. No matter that there is much bloodshed and fighting. All these things are secondary the real strength of the story.

Child of the 7th Age · 08-15-2002, 02:51 PM

Gimli -- Good question Gimli! It is a valid thing to ask, and it doesn't mean that girls are prissy or anything like that. And, historically, there is some truth in what you say.

For many years, there were more male than female fans of fantasy in general and Tolkien in particular. Believe me, I know. I'm a woman and I've been reading fantasy and Tolkien since the mid-sixties. I used to go into the stores and, boy, I was the only one of the female persuasion there!! It wasn't so bad in the bookstores, but in the fantasy/comic book type places, I definitely stood out. I always felt a little like Bilbo in the Shire -- the only one interested in Elves and such with all the neighbors looking on with disapproval.

That has slowly changed over the years. There are many decent authors of fantasy who are female--Rowling, Bradley, Kurtz, to name but a few. And I think that, over time the nature of the fan community has changed to become much more female.

This site, when it first started, seems to have had more male posters. The interesting thing is that, within recent years, I was close friends with a number of female fans who were hard core Tolkien people as I was. They did a lot of reading of the books and the criticism, and even writing some fantasy, but they didn't post on internet sites like this one. Don't ask me why because I don't know. Maybe that explains some of the earlier gender imbalance at the Downs.

And there still are areas of fantasy where the commercial marketing at least is more geared towards the guys, e.g. Warhammer games, for example, and even some type of computer or video games. This is unfortunate. Just take a look at the RPG room as there are plenty of females down there quite ready to take off the guy's head with a sword!

So, my answer would be is that the Tolkien fan base used to be more male, but is probably changing now to a more equal footing. And, please, please, it is not just Mary Sues moaning over Legolas. (I do find that insulting!) That type of fan will burn out in six months max unless the person goes on to develop some other interests as well.

And, by the way, I would say that a guy who sees Tolkien only as a bunch of sword fights is just as shortsighted as a girl swooning over an actor. Both of them are getting a tiny little piece of Tolkien, but missing out on the big picture! The big picture is a lot more than swords and axes, although we all know those can be "fun". The big picture for Tolkien at least has to do with characters who can tear your heart out with empathy and ideas that can make you sit down and think a long, long time. And males as well as females can equally appreciate that!

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

Davin · 08-15-2002, 03:30 PM

Quote:

felt a little like Bilbo in the Shire

rofl! Now I have a new saying! I just found that really funny....and I have a feeling that I will be using it alot in the future... [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

Arwen Imladris · 08-15-2002, 03:33 PM

It is a proven fact that girls like to read more then boys, in fact, there was a big article in the Ottawa Citizen today about that, that is likely part of it.

Perhaps too, the boys who do read maybe do other things then spend time here.

Gimli Son Of Gloin · 08-15-2002, 06:03 PM

Co7A, I do not lust Tolkiens books for the blood, and fighting and killing, and so forth. Like Ms. Took said, an added bonus, I find all the violence and so forth kind of like an extra bonus. More so like a key element, but the books would still be spectacular (though not as appealing) without violence.

Bulelainwen · 08-15-2002, 07:57 PM

Quote:

And, by the way, I would say that a guy who sees Tolkien only as a bunch of sword fights is just as shortsighted as a girl swooning over an actor. Both of them are getting a tiny little piece of Tolkien, but missing out on the big picture! The big picture is a lot more than swords and axes, although we all know those can be "fun". The big picture for Tolkien at least has to do with characters who can tear your heart out with empathy and ideas that can make you sit down and think a long, long time. And males as well as females can equally appreciate that!

Tolkien is very deep and most of the girls that I know (me being on of them) prefer books that are deep and can sit and think about forever but still have questions.

Quote:

I like it because it fascinates me how Tolkien wrote this AMAZING books. The are unlike any that I have ever read. He created MANY languages, and a whole history to Middle Earth.

Im a girl and some of my favorite scenes and movies are action. Im even taking Tae Kwon Do and going to take fencing next year. Its 2002 there isnt really anything anymore that is "guys" or "girls".

Aroaraniel · 08-15-2002, 08:46 PM

Quote:

I'd say that the dedicated fan population probably leans towards the male side a bit, but with the movie coming out, a lot of females are drawn in by a) the 'gorgeous' actors and b) the 'chick-flick' appeal that is there in the movie (Frodo and the way he's presented as frail and sensitive). These newer fans still have the fresh wonder about them and came to the internet looking for information and people that shared their interest, hence the 'new' wave of female forum members.

I've read the books long before the movies ((although now I find Elijah a very nice added bonus)), and the movies just awoke my love the books (which I have read two times since, making my reading tally three times...although that may be small to other times you people have read the books, but I'm only 14 years old hehe)!

Child of the 7th Age · 08-16-2002, 12:19 AM

Hey, Gimli -- You must have a guilty conscience. When I said that someone who focuse only on swordplay was missing something, I wasn't thinking of you!! (I may have been thinking of others, but they shall remain unnamed.) sharon

MYyyPreciousSS · 08-16-2002, 01:07 AM

I don't think it really matters what gender you are. Anyone could get sucked into Tolkien's books. He created a whole world that you just want to be apart of. There is something in his books for every type of person. Whether it be the adventure, or the characters or somthing much more.
Maybe the violence gets some people to enjoy the movie, but the whole LOTR world is so much more. As long as you can see that, gender doesn't matter.
I don't know why there happen to be more female Downers then male, but I don't think its because of their gender that makes a person more interested in LOTR or not. It just depends on the person. In in this case the majority just happens to be female.
Not only did Tolkien create a story, but he created a world for anyone and everyone
(BTW: I do happen to be Female incase u were wondering [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]and violence doesn't bother me either.)

[ August 16, 2002: Message edited by: MYyyPreciousSS ]

Thengise Greenleaf of Mirkwood · 08-16-2002, 01:45 AM

I think MYyyPreciousSS is right. It doesn't really matter about gender. Though to me it seems that a lot of girls are into this, including me.

08-16-2002, 10:17 AM

I think that women and men both have taste for LOTR..My self is a great fan of LOTR.I would think thatmen have more taste in it,but hey what do I know.

ALways Mary [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

08-15-2002, 10:48 AM	#1
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	LOTR Addicts Something kind of puzzles me. I have always thought of fighting, and killing, and swords, and quests, to appeal to a male's sense of taste more so than a females. Therefore, I would think LOTR would appeal more to males(That's what <em>I</em> think). If my theory/sceme/estimation/ect. has any truth to it, I would expect there to be more male Downers than female. However, there seem to be many more female downers than I would have expected. Or rather, a lot fewer male Downers than I would have expected. The latter being more accurate. What do you think? [ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Gimli Son Of Gloin ] __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

08-15-2002, 11:38 AM	#2
Davin Wight Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 166	LotR doesn't (in my opinion..I am a guy, just so ya know) doesn't interest me because of the weapons, the killing, and all that stuff (even though I do enjoy it...probably a bit too much...hehe). It has to do with the way Tolkien wrote his books. I can't really describe what attracts me to LotR so much....the characters and storyline just fascinates me. But everyone is sure to have a different reason for liking LotR. __________________ So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. »»The Telmena««

08-15-2002, 11:58 AM	#3
Galadel Vinorel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lothlorien, the Woodlen Realm Posts: 366	I love LOTR, even though I am a girl. Most girls, though, just like it because of the actors that acted in FOTR. I like it because it fascinates me how Tolkien wrote this AMAZING books. The are unlike any that I have ever read. He created MANY languages, and a whole history to Middle Earth. I wish that he was still alive so that I could sit down and talk to him about Middle Earth. Do you ralize how much information about Middle Earth and such that he probally took to his grave?! To me, Tolkien is, well, AMAZING!! He created a whole new world, which few people have ever done. It was like our world, except different. The beauty and the sorrow of ME co-existed together, and that is what seems to draw me into this encanting and sorrowful world. I don't really care about all that fighting and such, but I do not think, Gimli, that it fair for you to say that girls would not like that, for I know that I do. I wish that I could learn to swordfight. And, I know many other girls who would like to learn how to swordfight as well. We are NOT all prissy little girls that only think about makeup and boys and clothes all the time. Trust me, I think about all of that stuff very seldomly, and I'm a teenager. What you said at the begginning of your statement is not true!! And, I take much offense at it, and I bet that many other girls on this site do as well. So, there. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] __________________ “Words can never convey the incredible impact of our attitude toward life. The longer I live the more convinced I become that life is 10 percent what happens to us and 90 percent how we respond to it." -Charles R. Swindoll

08-15-2002, 12:16 PM	#4
Aroaraniel Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Buckland Posts: 158	I'm a girl and I love LOTR!! I like the adventure, and the character, and the fact that Tolkien built this whole new world for others to explore!! And I also must note that although I'm a girl, the gore and battle doesn't bother me at all. In fact, in the movie, the action sequences were my favorite. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] __________________ Pippin and Merry rule! -- Lissenen ar' maska'lalaith tenna' lye omentuva!

08-15-2002, 01:04 PM	#5
Legolas A Northern Soul Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Valinor Posts: 1,847	I'd say that the dedicated fan population probably leans towards the male side a bit, but with the movie coming out, a lot of females are drawn in by a) the 'gorgeous' actors and b) the 'chick-flick' appeal that is there in the movie (Frodo and the way he's presented as frail and sensitive). These newer fans still have the fresh wonder about them and came to the internet looking for information and people that shared their interest, hence the 'new' wave of female forum members. [ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Legalos ] __________________ ...take counsel with thyself, and remember who and what thou art.

08-15-2002, 01:27 PM	#6
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	Galadel, I cannot see at all how my post could possibly be offensive to a female. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

08-15-2002, 01:36 PM	#7
Galadel Vinorel Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Lothlorien, the Woodlen Realm Posts: 366	Gimli, you are implying through your post that we females are weak, and that we don't like fighting and such. But, I will give you a break dear Gimli, and be nice to you. See ya around!! [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img] __________________ “Words can never convey the incredible impact of our attitude toward life. The longer I live the more convinced I become that life is 10 percent what happens to us and 90 percent how we respond to it." -Charles R. Swindoll

08-15-2002, 01:37 PM	#8
Ms. Took Haunting Spirit Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Great Smials Posts: 63	I love Lord of the Rings, even though i am a girl. Sure the actors are hot but thats just a bonus. I started reading the books before the movie came out, and i really just like the adventure and excitement of tolkiens world. __________________ We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars -Oscar Wilde Check out my website. http://groups.msn.com/pippinfanclub

08-15-2002, 01:53 PM	#9
Limlaith Guest Posts: n/a	It makes perfect sense that women and men both should adore the story -- The heart of Tolkien's work is love. Think of how much a love story the LOTR truly is. It is a sweeping tale of love - love between friends, love of hearth and home, love of lands and peoples you have never seen but must protect against certain death and destruction. Think of how much love there is between the various characters: Sam and Frodo, Merry and Pippin, Aragorn and Arwen, Eowyn and Faramir, Gimli and Legolas, Aragorn and the hobbits, the Ents for their trees (and long lost Entwives!). Yes it has swordfighting and killing and wizards and goblins, etc. - but they are not the driving force of the story. It is a sweeping saga in which any person, man or woman, can find themselves immediately and inextricably immersed! It appeals to everyone! No matter that there aren't many female characters. No matter that there is much bloodshed and fighting. All these things are secondary the real strength of the story.

08-15-2002, 02:51 PM	#10
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Gimli -- Good question Gimli! It is a valid thing to ask, and it doesn't mean that girls are prissy or anything like that. And, historically, there is some truth in what you say. For many years, there were more male than female fans of fantasy in general and Tolkien in particular. Believe me, I know. I'm a woman and I've been reading fantasy and Tolkien since the mid-sixties. I used to go into the stores and, boy, I was the only one of the female persuasion there!! It wasn't so bad in the bookstores, but in the fantasy/comic book type places, I definitely stood out. I always felt a little like Bilbo in the Shire -- the only one interested in Elves and such with all the neighbors looking on with disapproval. That has slowly changed over the years. There are many decent authors of fantasy who are female--Rowling, Bradley, Kurtz, to name but a few. And I think that, over time the nature of the fan community has changed to become much more female. This site, when it first started, seems to have had more male posters. The interesting thing is that, within recent years, I was close friends with a number of female fans who were hard core Tolkien people as I was. They did a lot of reading of the books and the criticism, and even writing some fantasy, but they didn't post on internet sites like this one. Don't ask me why because I don't know. Maybe that explains some of the earlier gender imbalance at the Downs. And there still are areas of fantasy where the commercial marketing at least is more geared towards the guys, e.g. Warhammer games, for example, and even some type of computer or video games. This is unfortunate. Just take a look at the RPG room as there are plenty of females down there quite ready to take off the guy's head with a sword! So, my answer would be is that the Tolkien fan base used to be more male, but is probably changing now to a more equal footing. And, please, please, it is not just Mary Sues moaning over Legolas. (I do find that insulting!) That type of fan will burn out in six months max unless the person goes on to develop some other interests as well. And, by the way, I would say that a guy who sees Tolkien only as a bunch of sword fights is just as shortsighted as a girl swooning over an actor. Both of them are getting a tiny little piece of Tolkien, but missing out on the big picture! The big picture is a lot more than swords and axes, although we all know those can be "fun". The big picture for Tolkien at least has to do with characters who can tear your heart out with empathy and ideas that can make you sit down and think a long, long time. And males as well as females can equally appreciate that! sharon, the 7th age hobbit [ August 15, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ] __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

08-15-2002, 03:33 PM	#12
Arwen Imladris Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In a box with a fox Posts: 1,347	It is a proven fact that girls like to read more then boys, in fact, there was a big article in the Ottawa Citizen today about that, that is likely part of it. Perhaps too, the boys who do read maybe do other things then spend time here. __________________ "Wake up! Wake up! Wake up, sleepies, we must go, yes, we must go at once."

08-15-2002, 06:03 PM	#13
Gimli Son Of Gloin Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: The Halls of Montezuma, and the Shores of Tripoli Posts: 495	Co7A, I do not lust Tolkiens books for the blood, and fighting and killing, and so forth. Like Ms. Took said, an added bonus, I find all the violence and so forth kind of like an extra bonus. More so like a key element, but the books would still be spectacular (though not as appealing) without violence. __________________ The Few, the Proud, the Marines.

08-16-2002, 12:19 AM	#16
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Hey, Gimli -- You must have a guilty conscience. When I said that someone who focuse only on swordplay was missing something, I wasn't thinking of you!! (I may have been thinking of others, but they shall remain unnamed.) sharon __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.

08-16-2002, 01:07 AM	#17
MYyyPreciousSS Wight Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the Here and Now Posts: 113	I don't think it really matters what gender you are. Anyone could get sucked into Tolkien's books. He created a whole world that you just want to be apart of. There is something in his books for every type of person. Whether it be the adventure, or the characters or somthing much more. Maybe the violence gets some people to enjoy the movie, but the whole LOTR world is so much more. As long as you can see that, gender doesn't matter. I don't know why there happen to be more female Downers then male, but I don't think its because of their gender that makes a person more interested in LOTR or not. It just depends on the person. In in this case the majority just happens to be female. Not only did Tolkien create a story, but he created a world for anyone and everyone (BTW: I do happen to be Female incase u were wondering [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]and violence doesn't bother me either.) [ August 16, 2002: Message edited by: MYyyPreciousSS ] __________________ Then the heart of Éowyn changed, or else at last she understood it. And suddenly her winter passed, and the sun shone on her. "My Preciousss" - the line that started the obsession.

08-16-2002, 01:45 AM	#18
Thengise Greenleaf of Mirkwood Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Mirkwood, my kingdom Posts: 404	I think MYyyPreciousSS is right. It doesn't really matter about gender. Though to me it seems that a lot of girls are into this, including me. __________________ Thengise Greenleaf daughter of Legolas Greenleaf. My heart and soul belong to Judge Simon.

08-16-2002, 10:17 AM	#19
Legolas Lover Guest Posts: n/a	I think that women and men both have taste for LOTR..My self is a great fan of LOTR.I would think thatmen have more taste in it,but hey what do I know. ALways Mary [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]