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09-07-2022, 06:09 PM | #1 | |
Dead Serious
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Cherry-Picking the Good Parts
In the Rings of Power First Episode Thread, in my stream of consciousness-esque list of first impressions, there were a few things I noted as genuinely liking. I'll start by quoting them here:
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You don't have to agree with my list--you can even like things I found baffling or distasteful (the same British sound on Haradrim as Noldor? What is this nonsense!), but that's not the purpose of this thread. This thread is--solely--for things you genuinely liked. If you want to go long and detailed on why you liked it, I'd love to read it, but I'm open to mere lists.
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09-07-2022, 06:34 PM | #2 |
Laconic Loreman
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A few things that I haven't mentioned in the Spoiler thread, which I'm going to use more for my reaction/episode analysis. This one will be nice just to highlight the best tidbits.
-I appreciated that well made orc prosthetics are always superior to CGI. Also that orc was wicked strong, the entire scene I felt like the orc was a real threat. I hope this is how they do depict their orcs in the series. I got bored with The Hobbit's Legolas 101 ways to decapitate an orc. The orc scene in Episode 2, that orc was definitely not canon fodder. -I loved the the "sinking" of Galadriel's origami boat and how it opened up into a swan. I thought it a clever nod to the Kinslaying of Alqualonde. With the copyright I don't think they could have gotten into details, but readers of the Silm I think would recognize what that scene represents. -The best bit so far are the Harfoots (Harfeet?) How it showed simple hobbit "magic" to disappear, blend in with their environment and avoid the eyes of Big Folk blundering through. It was a nice and unexpected treat.
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09-07-2022, 06:35 PM | #3 | |
Cryptic Aura
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Because folks have complained about the ship to Valinor--and even I had a stab at calling the situation a Rapture--I thought a good post here would be to a post I found elsewhere which really helped peopl (including me) appreciate how the scene/event could be understood within this new narrative interpretation. The people who responded positively to this are very knowledgeable, extensive readers of Tolkien and critical commentary on him.
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09-08-2022, 07:49 AM | #4 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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"Stone Age" Hobbits
I will be one of apparently many who are saying that the Harfeet are really great. I shall repeat what I have said elsewhere: I love how the culture is built. They indeed feel like "Stone Age Hobbits", the pseudo-nomadic gatherers with their way of dealing with the world... it somehow managed to capture the essence of those aboriginal cultures (amidst the "civilised", sedentary cultures who inhabit Middle-Earth at the time!) in such a manner that it fits so smoothly into the setting and you do not even realise how well it is done until you start thinking about it, because it simply does not stick out in any way. I also liked Largo's chronicle and proto-Hobbit-script, as a different, yet somehow appropriate nod to their future bookworms like Bilbo and their genealogical and other interests. Elven vs Mortal Perception of Time Elrond and Durin: I think picking up the theme of immortality and the different concept of time is something that is not often tackled in such a manner even in fantasy in general, and if it is, it is often in the very extreme form of "member of one race loved the other and we know that one of them has to die". This sort of "mundane" take on perception of time and which events are considered important is almost... well, even a neuroscientist would be happy! I think what the writers did right was to pick up a theme that exists in Tolkien (immortality of one race vs mortality of another) and explored what it means in practice in a way that the source material never does. Well done! This is how expanding on existing lore should look like. The "Reverse Morgul-Blade" I liked the idea and the visual effect of the "reverse Morgul-Blade", even if I know not how it works, what it should be, or anything else about it. It is visually cool, it instantly calls back the imagery it (I assume) is supposed to (i.e. the Morgul-Blade that disappears), the way it "drains blood" looks cool and it alludes to it being something creepy, evil and "vampiric", i.e. that drains one's life force and transforms it into power that is able to kill others (also a metaphorical foreshadowing of the wielder's future life path, if he stays on it). But I like simply the innovative effect of taking something familiar and just reversing it, and what it looks like. (In fact, it is also a sort of metaphor for the story itself - of Sauron's - and his servants' - rise, as opposed to fall; a blade forming as opposed to disappearing.) Incidentally, I could say that all the weapons so far in this show look very visually appealing and I find them overall more interesting than PJ's weapons.
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09-08-2022, 10:41 AM | #5 |
Guardian of the Blind
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Where The Skies End
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I really like the Harfoots. I like the nod to Frodo and Sam / Merry and Pippin in Nori and Poppy. There is also a nod to the future in their last names: Proudfelllow and Brandyfoot (Proudfeet and Brandywine).
I also really enjoy all of the physical stuff. The sets look great, the costumes look great, the boats look great, the weapons look great. Each race is very distinctive looking. Kazad-Dum is amazing. The Harfoots houses are super cute and I like how they blend into their environment. You can clearly see the Hobbits that they will evolve into. Orcs quietly digging under houses is creepy as heck... I don't like it but at the same time I do like it. Are they just trying to heist away that sword in the middle of the night via tunnels? Creepy. I dig it. I like Durin and Dori better than I thought I would. She's so happy and friendly and talkative and he's gruff and stoic (somewhat). |
09-08-2022, 12:00 PM | #6 |
Loremaster of Annúminas
Join Date: Oct 2006
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I actually can't get past their anachronistic and linguistically impossible names. Tolkien is all about the nomenclature, and if you can't get that right you have no business adapting Tolkien
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The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it. |
09-08-2022, 01:19 PM | #7 | |
Dead Serious
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If, perchance, that turns out to be nothing... well, there are other threads.
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09-08-2022, 02:48 PM | #8 | ||||
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Also I like the idea of this Galadriel and the veiled spectre-like psychopomps as severed aspects of one archetype. The Sorceress of Dwimordene is very much a spectral character herself, so she will have to integrate that other aspect at some time. Quote:
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I liked the angular style of architecture and ornaments in Khazad-dûm - very fitting for a people working in stone. And I love Sophia Nomvete's Dísa! I have no idea what her ethnicity is, but considering that Tolkien likened the Dwarves to Jews, I wish the makers had made all the Dwarves of a more levantine type (rather than Scottish, which is just regurgitating Peter Jackson's Gimli).
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09-08-2022, 03:18 PM | #9 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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So, I don't think you're too far off on predictions about the sword. This might be better to ask in the spoiler thread, but did they reveal whose barn that was where Theo found the sword? I can't remember Quote:
Celebrimbor's my favorite canonical character. Disa's my favorite non-canonical character so far.
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09-09-2022, 08:08 PM | #10 |
Laconic Loreman
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The best parts from Episode 3.
-How the Harfoots incorporate camouflage in their clothing to disappear in a moments notice, or in an emergency. Such as the Stranger being in camp. -The orcs. The orcs are much better than in Peter Jackson's adaptations. They looked great in Lord of the Rings. I think they look even better in the Amazon series, but they are also developed better. Seeing them be hurt by sunlight and toying with their captives. They are wickedly cruel and feel like legitimate threats.
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09-10-2022, 04:38 AM | #11 | |
Dead Serious
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I rather enjoyed the appearance of Númenor too: it was exceptionally full, I thought, of things one could nitpick, but the overall effect was very well done: larger, more glorious than the Gondor of the movies, older too and with greater wealth. But what I especially liked was the variety: there was different architecture in Rómenna/Armenelos (whichever the royal city is supposed to be) compared with Andúnie, and there were different locations and people: naval, royal, Faithful, common. Again, I think there was plenty to nitpick in Númenor, but I very much liked the breadth and depth of it.
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09-11-2022, 10:28 AM | #12 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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A couple things that I enjoyed:
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
09-11-2022, 02:14 PM | #13 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,996
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Episode 3
Folks in my barrow here found this a more interesting episode than either of the first two. It secured our continuing interest.
Numenor is stunning, not just aesthetically but also sociologically. We see not only palaces and regal homes and pubs but the entire range of a culture--ports, navies, smithies, markets, jails, libraries, workers and labourers as well the aristocracy. The shades of blue work well. Gorgeous and clearly a highly developed culture, not a static depiction. The orcs are also given a fuller sociology, greater depth to their hateful and hurtful culture, with their brutalising of men (and likely women as well). Their faces aren't black but ashen white and their fear of the sun/light palpable. The warg's CGI was cartoonish but these orcs are clearly opponents to be feared, intelligent and not only physically threatening. No lower class slang to make them ridiculous. The Harfoots continue to be developed in credible ways especially as a migrating tribe. I think this is repeating what others have found good.
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09-14-2022, 08:57 PM | #14 | ||
Laconic Loreman
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The trenches the captives were digging, and the landscape above the trench reminded me of reading about WW1 trench warfare, as well as Tolkien's experiences. The experiences of soldiers who knew they'd probably die if they left the trench. Then all of Arondir's friends dying in the trench or trying to escape. I find it hard to believe the critics who have said the series creators never read Tolkien or don't understand it, after scenes like the orc work camp. The buildup of hope, to all of Arondir's friends are dead, and the industrialization of warfare to a ruined landscape above the trenches.
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09-18-2022, 04:10 AM | #15 |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
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I have to second, third, fiftee... nthise... ?!? Sorry, my English has failed me here... the sunlight and the Orcs. Yes, going over the top and capitalising it, actually a great plot device, making the Orcs more distinct - because after all, what would they be otherwise than just ugly men?
And the Uruk-Hai lover that I am and always have been, I so much appreciate this portrayal of the "inferior", pre-Saruman Orcs, who cannot even be in the sun! (And I like to think that given how far in the past we are, maybe these are even "less evolved" and take the sun worse than their Third Age versions. Maybe by the time of LotR, even the basic Orcs can be in the sun without totally dying - they have some years of Dark Power-enhanced evolution for that. But the Uruk-hai, now there is a pinnacle of Making [as opposed to Creation, see what I did there] and always shall be!) Compare to PJ, who sometimes half-heartedly ran along with it in LotR, but by the time of the Hobbit at the latest he stopped giving a damn and his Orcs can stroll in the sun and not even notice. So for all the Uruk-lovers in the world, and all Orc-lovers in general I guess, well done! *** As we delve deeper into the Harfoot culture, I like (even though with some reservations) the more sinister aspect of it, ie leaving others behind. It gives them sort of a rough edge that balances out all the merry poppy fluffy stuff we expect and know also from the sedentary Hobbits. (But then, perhaps this is a way to show the hidden rough edge of the Hobbits, too - thinking of the Scouring of the Shire.) At the same time, the memorial service is amazing. And I still love the entire "worldbuilding" of the Harfoot culture the more we learn about it, the migrations, the way of camouflaging even their vehicles, etc. *** Míriel's headdresses. They are just beautiful and I'd wear all of that. *** And yes, definitely happy to see more of the "trees vs. cutting down living things" theme. I feel like it should be an automatic thing, something to inherently Tolkien, but it is certainly something done right.
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
09-25-2022, 07:00 PM | #16 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Faithfully adding to this thread (so that, maybe, if all the things here were combined into a single episode, it would actually make a good movie):
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
10-01-2022, 09:04 AM | #17 |
Dead Serious
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A comment on Facebook mixed with my latest stream-of-thoughts in the Episode VI thread has made me realise that I think RoP's writers have spent a lot of time absorbing the Tolkienian ideas: I really like their decisions to include things like the origin of orks (and what this says about them morally), Light and Shadow, the clash of understanding that comes from immortals and mortals interacting, the political tug-of-war and insularity of the King's Men vs. the Faithful. There's a lot of Tolkien in this sort of stuff--more so, I think, than the PJ movies ever invented. It's pretty much never expressed in a plot or dialogue I would call Tolkienian, but it's still there to be recognised.
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10-07-2022, 07:18 AM | #18 |
Psyche of Prince Immortal
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I concur with most of the sentiment posted here so far: While it may drift away from many Tolkienisms, I can see where the inspiration has come from. Ultiamtely, they are taking chances and some will work out but others will not.
I do like the focus for the Uruks, both story and costume, and giving them something of a tragic backstory. This is supposed to be an origin story of Middle-Earth, so at least there is some "Origin-ing" going on. The long location scenes of landscapes harkens back to the trilogy, and are always beautiful.
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10-08-2022, 08:55 AM | #19 |
Laconic Loreman
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The Harfoots remain the best parts of the series. I really enjoyed Malva's character in Ep. 7
I like how she was sort of a Lobelia character...crotchety and antagonistic towards the main protagonist hobbits. In an earlier episode there was a mention of either Poppy or Nori playing a prank on Malva. So, I imagined something like a Bilbo/Lobelia dynamic, and I liked getting a bit of a darker, antagonistic hobbit character. But at the end of the day, Lobelia wound up in jail by standing up to Sharkey's ruffians, and Malva here admits to being wrong and supporting the younger hobbits. Malva's motivations and character are more convincing than Galadriel randomly deciding she wants to give up her sword to Theo now.
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10-14-2022, 09:55 PM | #20 |
Laconic Loreman
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So, I wish Celebrimbor looked and sounds more like the greatest Elven smith, who inherited his grandfather's skill. He doesn't, but I have to highlight Charles Edwards' acting, because it's a nice little treat.
I loved his introduction and how he spoke highly of a desire to watch dwarves work their craft. (I think that was Episode 2) And I loved his interactions this episode with Halbrand. It sets up nicely for their future friendship and I want to see how their relationship plays out, and ultimately how it ends in tragedy. But I particularly liked Charles Edwards' expression when Galadriel says "We are to never treat with Halbrand again." It files under the subtle Tolkien nods that I like the best. Galadriel rejects Sauron/Annatar's "gifts," Celebrimbor welcomes it and his look after Galadriel's words is spot on.
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10-23-2022, 12:11 PM | #21 |
Shady She-Penguin
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I think this thread would be the right place to point out that while some of the actors on the show failed to convince me, after seeing the whole season 1 I can genuinely applaud others. I was originally very sceptical of Robert Aramayo's shot-haired (gasp!) "cunning politician" Elrond, but he managed to win me over. One of the more nuanced and likeable performances. Lloyd Owen as Elendil also stood out, and my definite favourite was Joseph Mawle as Adar. Other highlights were Megan Richards as Poppy and Trystan Gravelle as Pharazôn. I was also positively surprised by Charlie Vickers being able to pull off the Sauron reveal; I did not expect that after seeing him as "Walmart Aragorn" (or what was the great term someone here coined ) for several episodes.
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