Suicidal tree? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elianna · 07-17-2003, 10:50 AM

I know this is a totally obscure passage, but I was glancing through LotR and it caught my eye:
In TTT, ch 2, "The Riders of Rohan", the Three Hunters start a fire near Fangorn. Legolas, while sitting by the fire exclaims "Look! The tree is glad of the fire!" In the next paragraph we are given a description of the the tree "bending this way and that so as to come above the flames" and that "the brown leaves now stood out stiff and rubbed together like many cold cracked hands taking comfort in the warmth."
Now, this last part might be the answer to my question, but I still don't understand this. Why does this tree like the fire? This is the angry Fangorn forest we're talking about. The forest knows the harm of fire and the wood the Hunters are burning is from Fangorn forest. Does this tree have a death wish? What are your thoughts on this?

Cinderella · 07-17-2003, 10:54 AM

I don't think it is to be intended the that tree was 'suicidal' exactly... I think it's simply supposed to show how Fangorn's trees are truly aware and very much alive beings. The tree is just streching itself over the fire to feel it's warmth just as a human would hold their hands near to a fire to warm themselves.

Lord of Angmar · 07-17-2003, 11:02 AM

I agree with Cinderella. Tolkien set up this particular passage must as he did the beginning of the hobbits' excursion into the Old Forest, a bit of exposition to give life and humanity to the elderly Wood. The tree probably enjoyed the fire from a safe distance, much as we humans enjoy a good fire on a frosty night (although we too know that fire is dangerous [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]).

***Sharkû*** · 07-17-2003, 11:20 AM

fire = warm = good

Silmiel of Imladris · 07-17-2003, 11:43 AM

Fangorn was just plain weird. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] In repeation humans like fire but being set on fire is not a thing we ever want to expirence the same goes for trees.

**The Saucepan Man** · 07-17-2003, 11:53 AM

Quote:

The tree is just streching itself over the fire to feel it's warmth just as a human would hold their hands near to a fire to warm themselves.

Mind you, I personally wouldn't choose to warm my hands over a fire stoked with bits of dead human. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Cinderella · 07-17-2003, 12:00 PM

[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] *dies* Oh no! Good call Saucepan Man! Didn't really think of that! Quite gross now that I am thinking of it.. but those fangorn trees were a bit peculiar and I have always suspected that Gimli isn't quite right in the head [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Lord of Angmar · 07-17-2003, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Gimli isn't quite right in the head

What makes you think this, Cinderella? Certainly he was endowed with all the quintessential characteristics of a Dwarf. If he is off his rocker, then so are all of the Naugrim! [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

Elianna · 07-17-2003, 01:18 PM

Yeah, Sauce Pan mano one of the things that was bothering me about this: The wood they're burning is from Fangorn. The Rohirrim had recently chopped it down.

FingolfintheBold · 07-17-2003, 02:38 PM

maybe some of that old tree's grandchildren were in that blaze... Chopped from under her by those hacking, slaying, destroying burarum- those orcs! Something must be done! Something will be done! To the Entmoot!

Yavanna228 · 07-17-2003, 03:41 PM

This is just a wild stab in the dark, but perhaps the tree seemed somewhat 'glad' because it was deranged by anger and grief over the destruction of its kin. The only reason I offer this extrapolation is because I've seen how some people react when someone close to them has been seriously injured or killed. They get this mad, sadistical happiness that makes them tempt fate, sort of like the tree playing with fire. I suppose it's something psychological, but I'm not an expert in that area at all.
Peace

Diamond18 · 07-17-2003, 03:53 PM

Or perhaps it had never really liked those trees, anyway.

Annoying little blighters. Stealing the sunlight, guzzling water from the ground. Little Huornings never show any respect for their elders anymore. Youth these days. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Burn 'em down, I say! Burn 'em all down! Then maybe the old tree can get some rest — no more wild parties with Barkallica music blaring so loud it shakes the leaves off the trees, or getting drunk on Ent-draught and running through the woods at night, picking up the field mice and bopping them on the head.

Stoke the fire, there, Straw-head, the night is getting cold...

Cinderella · 07-17-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Stoke the fire, there, Straw-head, the night is getting cold...

*Dies Laughing*

Orofarne · 08-16-2010, 11:08 AM

As a born and bred mountain girl, I know that small fires are actually beneficial to the forests. They burn out leaf litter and dead pinecones and things (called mast) and give all the trees more room to grow. The bottoms of many forest trees have really thick bark, so that the fires don't hurt the important insides of the tree. As long as the fire doesn't get way out of control and start jumping from treetop to treetop, it is very good for the forest.
Maybe the orcs did some amatuer firefighting and snuffed out the little fires before they could get rid of the mast and this tree was looking forward to a nice little (emphasis on little) forest fire.

Nerwen · 08-16-2010, 11:25 AM

You know, it really is quite amusing when someone (or some bot, quite often) revives one of these ancient threads, and proves that the Downers of yore were all completely bonkers (along with the trees, and Gimli).

Eönwë · 08-16-2010, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

the Downers of yore were all completely bonkers (along with the trees, and Gimli).

Not much has changed then!

Folwren · 08-16-2010, 08:01 PM

I saw this thread title and I just had to read it. It turned out to be quite entertaining. I'm glad I bothered to look.

But what do you think - some of the topics I've seen brought up at times (this one, for instance) just seem really...superficial. Do you think Tolkien really thought about this at all when he wrote it? He was drawing a picture, and a very vivid one...did he think about the fact that the fire was made out of the same stuff the tree was made of? I highly doubt it. My guess was that he wrote it and didn't think about it again, as is likely the case with many things in the book. As Lord of Agmar said above, it was likely "a bit of exposition to give life and humanity to the elderly Wood."

alatar · 08-26-2010, 08:08 PM

Methinks he was just trying to show that the trees were nice, liking the fire just like our three, and so was 'on the same side.' Also, having built many a fire in the woods, it does appear that trees waves their leafy hands over my campfires, and I pretend that this is due to their entishness and not thermal air currents...

Bêthberry · 08-26-2010, 08:24 PM

Perhaps it was humming "Light my fire"?

alatar · 08-26-2010, 08:28 PM

It does seem a little cannibalistic...

07-17-2003, 10:50 AM	#1
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Suicidal tree? I know this is a totally obscure passage, but I was glancing through LotR and it caught my eye: In TTT, ch 2, "The Riders of Rohan", the Three Hunters start a fire near Fangorn. Legolas, while sitting by the fire exclaims "Look! The tree is glad of the fire!" In the next paragraph we are given a description of the the tree "bending this way and that so as to come above the flames" and that "the brown leaves now stood out stiff and rubbed together like many cold cracked hands taking comfort in the warmth." Now, this last part might be the answer to my question, but I still don't understand this. Why does this tree like the fire? This is the angry Fangorn forest we're talking about. The forest knows the harm of fire and the wood the Hunters are burning is from Fangorn forest. Does this tree have a death wish? What are your thoughts on this? __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

07-17-2003, 10:54 AM	#2
Cinderella Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arda Unmarred, MA Posts: 173	I don't think it is to be intended the that tree was 'suicidal' exactly... I think it's simply supposed to show how Fangorn's trees are truly aware and very much alive beings. The tree is just streching itself over the fire to feel it's warmth just as a human would hold their hands near to a fire to warm themselves. __________________ These violent delights have violent ends... "Live fast, die young, and have a beautiful looking corpse." -J. Dean

07-17-2003, 11:02 AM	#3
Lord of Angmar Tyrannus Incorporalis Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: the North Posts: 833	I agree with Cinderella. Tolkien set up this particular passage must as he did the beginning of the hobbits' excursion into the Old Forest, a bit of exposition to give life and humanity to the elderly Wood. The tree probably enjoyed the fire from a safe distance, much as we humans enjoy a good fire on a frosty night (although we too know that fire is dangerous [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]). __________________ ...where the instrument of intelligence is added to brute power and evil will, mankind is powerless in its own defence.

07-17-2003, 11:43 AM	#5
Silmiel of Imladris Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Looking into a crystal ball- still see nothing Posts: 395	Fangorn was just plain weird. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] In repeation humans like fire but being set on fire is not a thing we ever want to expirence the same goes for trees. __________________ Legolas 20 ales later: I feel something, a slight tingling in my fingers. I think it's affecting me. Figwit on his name: Are you suggesting that I have the wit of a fig?

07-17-2003, 12:00 PM	#7
Cinderella Wight Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Arda Unmarred, MA Posts: 173	[img]smilies/eek.gif[/img] dies Oh no! Good call Saucepan Man! Didn't really think of that! Quite gross now that I am thinking of it.. but those fangorn trees were a bit peculiar and I have always suspected that Gimli isn't quite right in the head [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] __________________ These violent delights have violent ends... "Live fast, die young, and have a beautiful looking corpse." -J. Dean

07-17-2003, 11:20 AM	#4
*Sharkû* Hungry Ghoul Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 1,719	fire = warm = good

07-17-2003, 01:18 PM	#9
Elianna Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Ad finem itineris Posts: 384	Yeah, Sauce Pan mano one of the things that was bothering me about this: The wood they're burning is from Fangorn. The Rohirrim had recently chopped it down. __________________ Enyale cuilenya, ú-enyale mandenya.

07-17-2003, 02:38 PM	#10
FingolfintheBold Haunting Spirit Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Somewhere between knowing my path and walking it Posts: 69	maybe some of that old tree's grandchildren were in that blaze... Chopped from under her by those hacking, slaying, destroying burarum- those orcs! Something must be done! Something will be done! To the Entmoot! __________________ There long the golden leaves have grown, upon the branching years, while here beyond the sundering seas, now fall the Elven-tears... but if of ships I now would sing, what ship would come to me, what ship would bear me ever back, across so wide a sea?

07-17-2003, 03:41 PM	#11
Yavanna228 Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: May 2003 Location: on the wings of the morning Posts: 394	This is just a wild stab in the dark, but perhaps the tree seemed somewhat 'glad' because it was deranged by anger and grief over the destruction of its kin. The only reason I offer this extrapolation is because I've seen how some people react when someone close to them has been seriously injured or killed. They get this mad, sadistical happiness that makes them tempt fate, sort of like the tree playing with fire. I suppose it's something psychological, but I'm not an expert in that area at all. Peace __________________ 'Dulaman na Binne Bui, Dulaman Gaelach/ Dulaman na farraige, 's e b'fhearr a bhi in Eirinn!'

07-17-2003, 03:53 PM	#12
Diamond18 Eidolon of a Took Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: my own private fantasy world Posts: 3,460	Or perhaps it had never really liked those trees, anyway. Annoying little blighters. Stealing the sunlight, guzzling water from the ground. Little Huornings never show any respect for their elders anymore. Youth these days. [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Burn 'em down, I say! Burn 'em all down! Then maybe the old tree can get some rest — no more wild parties with Barkallica music blaring so loud it shakes the leaves off the trees, or getting drunk on Ent-draught and running through the woods at night, picking up the field mice and bopping them on the head. Stoke the fire, there, Straw-head, the night is getting cold... __________________ All shall be rather fond of me and suffer from mild depression.

08-16-2010, 11:08 AM	#14
Orofarne Pile O'Bones Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Dancing alone in the madness Posts: 19	As a born and bred mountain girl, I know that small fires are actually beneficial to the forests. They burn out leaf litter and dead pinecones and things (called mast) and give all the trees more room to grow. The bottoms of many forest trees have really thick bark, so that the fires don't hurt the important insides of the tree. As long as the fire doesn't get way out of control and start jumping from treetop to treetop, it is very good for the forest. Maybe the orcs did some amatuer firefighting and snuffed out the little fires before they could get rid of the mast and this tree was looking forward to a nice little (emphasis on little) forest fire. __________________ ____________ Look my friends, here's a pretty Hobbit skin to wrap an Elven princeling in!

08-16-2010, 11:25 AM	#15
Nerwen Wisest of the Noldor Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: ˙˙˙ssɐןƃ ƃuıʞooן ǝɥʇ ɥƃnoɹɥʇ Posts: 6,694	You know, it really is quite amusing when someone (or some bot, quite often) revives one of these ancient threads, and proves that the Downers of yore were all completely bonkers (along with the trees, and Gimli). __________________ "Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo.

08-16-2010, 08:01 PM	#17
Folwren Messenger of Hope Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: In a tiny, insignificant little town in one of the many States. Posts: 5,076	I saw this thread title and I just had to read it. It turned out to be quite entertaining. I'm glad I bothered to look. But what do you think - some of the topics I've seen brought up at times (this one, for instance) just seem really...superficial. Do you think Tolkien really thought about this at all when he wrote it? He was drawing a picture, and a very vivid one...did he think about the fact that the fire was made out of the same stuff the tree was made of? I highly doubt it. My guess was that he wrote it and didn't think about it again, as is likely the case with many things in the book. As Lord of Agmar said above, it was likely "a bit of exposition to give life and humanity to the elderly Wood." __________________ A young man who wishes to remain a sound atheist cannot be too careful of his reading. - C.S. Lewis

08-26-2010, 08:08 PM	#18
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	Methinks he was just trying to show that the trees were nice, liking the fire just like our three, and so was 'on the same side.' Also, having built many a fire in the woods, it does appear that trees waves their leafy hands over my campfires, and I pretend that this is due to their entishness and not thermal air currents... __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

08-26-2010, 08:24 PM	#19
Bêthberry Cryptic Aura Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 5,996	Perhaps it was humming "Light my fire"? __________________ I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away.

08-26-2010, 08:28 PM	#20
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	It does seem a little cannibalistic... __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.