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#1 |
Deadnight Chanter
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What d'ya mean, it's only a smile?
Recent discussion on The Dunedain raised the issue. What meanings do we associate with smilies?
I can not post them all, as the total number is restricted to three, but I will post codes with spaces in between. Remove spaces, and you'll know which is which so, listed values: : o - embarrassment' : eek : - 'EEK! : ( - 'frown' : mad : - mad : ) - smile : rolleyes : - sarcastic : cool : - cool : p - stick out tongue ; ) - wink : smokin : - squatter : D - big grin : confused : - confused I suppose (and I've seen the paragons to prove it) that values given do not necessarily comply with general usage. Per instance, 'sarcastic' smiley was exploited by many to express 'exasperation or self-effacement'. I must confess my usage was the same until I've read its listed value some months back. It was the gesture similar to what cartoon heroes do when they sweep their feet on the floor after a deed they are not entirely proud of, so to say, but which they had to make anyway. But I stopped using it for fear my post may seem sarcastic where it was not. And, ahem, what is the purpose of ![]() That'd been the prologue. The main purpose of this thread is as follows: Do you think, that A. More exact and maybe a bit longer definitions should be worked out for smilies B. Convention agreed upon should be thence counted as 'Canon' for these fora, whatever deviations on other boards may be That may eliminate the confusion like to one made in the thread linked above, I suppose
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Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! Last edited by HerenIstarion; 10-02-2004 at 03:07 PM. Reason: to bring it up in accordance with own requirements as set in [url=http://69.51.5.41/showpost.php?p=354676&postcount=16]Let me know the reason, there is a good lad or lassie[/url] |
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#2 |
Tears of the Phoenix
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Putting dimes in the jukebox baby.
Posts: 1,453
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I definitely believe that this smile
![]() As for a convention -- I think that would be a...limiting...idea. It would be difficult to have a convention to determine the meanings of each one. Take, for instance, this smile: ![]() ![]() What I'm trying to say is that often some smileys have a double meaning. Hence, if you do not want the meaning of your smiley to be taken awry, make sure that the context and style of your smiley agree with the use of your smiley. Readers of smileys should look at context and tone. If it sounds nice and they think the smiley is sarcastic, then just assume that the writer used a poor choice in smileys. On the other hand of that, if the writer was being sarcastic then he certainly should have shown it in the context and style of his writing. It's the flip side of the coin: a smiley enhances what you are trying to say. It does not say it for you. Likewise, your writing defines the meaning of the smiley.
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I'm sorry it wasn't a unicorn. It would have been nice to have unicorns. Last edited by Imladris; 09-29-2004 at 03:33 PM. Reason: fixed smile |
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#3 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, D. C., USA
Posts: 299
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Although there are a few exceptions, I generally try and avoid the use of smilies in my posts <--(see, no smilie here!) for the same reasons you mention above. I'm afraid they will confuse my otherwise carefully crafted (well usually carefully crafted) prose.
![]() See. The smilie I used above could be self-depricating, embarassed or sarcastic depending on the reader. I include it because I intend the reader to decide for themselves whether my prose is careful or not and whether I'm aware of how careful it is (or not!) In this case, the confusion as to its meaning enhances the message so I include it. ![]() ![]()
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But all the while I sit and think of times there were before, I listen for returning feet and voices at the door. Last edited by radagastly; 09-29-2004 at 11:57 AM. Reason: edited because my prose is never as careful as it should be the first try. |
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#4 |
Night In Wight Satin
Join Date: May 2000
Posts: 4,043
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Like anything, smilies should be taken in the context they are given. For instance,
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The Barrow-Wight |
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#5 | |
Bittersweet Symphony
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: On the jolly starship Enterprise
Posts: 1,814
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#6 |
Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,859
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I find that the tongue smiley
![]() And ![]() There are only 2 smileys I've never used, those being the 2 red ones. I am never angry or embarassed when on the Downs! ![]()
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Los Ingobernables de Harlond |
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#7 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Having to use the spaces, or there would be far too many smilies here!
I generally use : ( and : confused : to indicate levels of upset-ness. A mild upset doesn't require the sad smilie, it seems too strong. Therefore I use the one that seems to be merely perturbed rather than about to weep.
I use ; ) for silliness, or otherwise unintended to be taken seriously. : p is cheeky and teasing. As their meanings to me are rather similar, I may have trouble deciding which to use. : rolleyes : usually indicates minor embarrassment or that I think something is stupid. : o is for more serious embarrassment. : D and : ) are for happiness, again, which I choose depends on how happy I am. : eek : is shock, : mad : is anger, and : smokin : and : cool : I don't use often.
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Don't let me die! |
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#8 |
Mischievous Candle
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When I read your impressions of the smileys, I come to think, how many people I may have offended by using them.
To me : rolleyes:, for example, means a) I'm acting/ I have done something silly/stupid b) the thing I'm talking about is silly c) sarcastic d) something else depending on the context. But I'm always using that smiley with friendly thoughts i.e. I don't want to offend anyone. I use : ( to describe sadness but I very often replace it with : confused: since it looks less devastated. And finally this one ![]() ![]()
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Fenris Wolf
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#9 |
Deadnight Chanter
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um, that's the point - when you point at
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Egroeg Ihkhsal - Would you believe in the love at first sight? - Yes I'm certain that it happens all the time! |
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#10 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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That doth seem logical, indeed.
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Don't let me die! |
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#11 |
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,538
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Indeed. I normally use
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#12 |
Brightness of a Blade
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stirring the smiley pot...
That's a good topic, HI!
Indeed these smiles pose a bit of a problem: they are too restrictive (that coming from one, who, admitedly, has quite a weakness for smilies as diverse and funny as possible). But, I realize this is a serious forum and should live up to its reputation by not having an abundance of smilies and icons. The problem comes indeed when one is misunderstood in the use of smilies, and the entire message is therefore misunderstood. BW argued that the meaning of the smilies is decided by the context, but more often it's quite the opposite way around. For instance, (hypothetical example) if I see a message that argues the importance of canonical-based fanfic, followed by the stick out tongue smiley, I'll obviously assume the person actually intended to say the opposite. But if I see it followed by the ambiguous smilie who rolls his eyes, I'm left not knowing what to assume: either that the person is mocking his/her own post, or that she/he rolls eyes at those who might think otherwise, or maybe that she/he is feeling very ****ed. I've almost never used the sarcastic smiley, I much oftener settle for this one: : p, who (in my acception) means that I'm making light of the situation, and that what I said shouldn't be taken too seriously. This same meaning I attribute to this smiley here: ![]() ![]() ![]() So, what's to be done? Remove labels is a suggestion, but I must confess that I didn't pay too much attention to these labels; I do let the context spell it out for me, but most of the times I seem to reach a wrong conclusion as to the nature of the message, the person's disposition, and so may other people when reading my 'smilied' posts.
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And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass. Last edited by Evisse the Blue; 10-02-2004 at 01:55 PM. Reason: spelling |
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#13 |
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,538
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If I remember right, the Chief Wight mentioned somewhere that he intentionally chose that only a limited number of smilies be allowed for us Downers to use, so that we could be able to exercise conveying what we really mean through words. As I can attest to, smilies have a way of filling the void of appropriate emotion in a certain post, especially when I can't find the right words (or when I feel lazy having to think about it *blush*). But we have all noticed that these very things that are supposed to make things easier for us tend to complicate matters. So I guess we have to exert more effort to make our posts clearer. We could imagine there are no smilies at our disposal, and words are our only instruments for communication.
And just a suggestion, could the use of asterisks that contain expressions be used instead? I've kind of gotten used to using it. *sheepish grin* ![]() |
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#14 |
Banshee of Camelot
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 5,830
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Good grief, I only realize now that this smiley
![]() I've used it countless times, but of course I never meant to be sarcastic !! (I seriously hope I haven't offended or confused anyone... *blushes*) For me *rolling eyes* means :I wonder, or I'm unsure or: Hm, what could it mean? or I'm thinking hard. In any case, if I ever say something sarcastic (which hardly ever happens), I'm not rolling my eyes!
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Yes! "wish-fulfilment dreams" we spin to cheat our timid hearts, and ugly Fact defeat! |
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#15 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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But I haven't touched a smilie in over 9 months...*sighs in relief* I'm going to be okay.
No, that's a lie. I never liked Emoticons because they were yet another thing to remember when either posting or chatting it up on MSN. I never mastered the text based ones either, and I much prefer to just write down what I would have said (though maybe a little grander because I have more time to think) and usually I have no problems. I understand the need for some validation of a funny post or mocking, but then, maybe some of you have seen my version of such emotion: (Smilie boycott: Cheeky Grin) Which is essentially the same thing. It is just as simple anyway. I don't hate smilies, but it's always fun to play-boycott stuff. Anybody want to join my rally? Most of this forum's posts are written either persuasively or descriptively, and both ways are pretty easy to write in and don't require the help of little illustrations. It's when the posts go to something else. When you're reading an essay, for example, certainly smilies would be inappropriate and discredit the writer. When we have conversations, however, such clear signals are needed. A conversation is the connection between two or more people, right? So in a sense you're speaking to someone or someones specifically, so you would have to use more personal language so that your tone and mood would be clear to your listeners, or in this case, your readers. When one is expressing themselves not in conversation, such personal connections are not required, and the art of written language takes care of everything. So I guess, it's the difference between the kind of post your're posting.
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Solus... I'm eating chicken again. I ate chicken yesterday and the day before... will I be eating chicken again tomorrow? Why am I always eating chicken? |
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#16 |
Alive without breath
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla
Posts: 5,912
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I usually associate;
![]() ![]() ![]() So, I always use them for that.
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I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket... |
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#17 |
Memento Mori
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Past The Point Of No Return
Posts: 1,117
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I had no idea that
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"Remember, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things. And no good thing ever dies." |
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#18 |
Fluttering Enchantment
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Comme une étoile amarante Comme un papillon de nuit C'est la lumière qui m'attire La flamme qui m'éblouit Fenris Muffin
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#19 |
Shadowed Prince
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,343
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I definitely agree with Wilwarin about the
![]() I often wonder why we have a ![]() I was going to say it should be replaced by some emotion but due to my lack of memory, I've forgotten which smiley emotion I want to be represented. I will return when my wits are less clouded by sleep. Perhaps it was jealousy, though I hardly ever feel jealous on the Downs, so I doubt that was it. Last edited by the guy who be short; 06-24-2005 at 03:35 PM. Reason: Wits clouded by sleep |
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#20 | |
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
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Quote:
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Multitasking women are never too busy to vote. |
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#21 |
Shadowed Prince
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,343
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I thought it may have been related to Squatter (ah, fond memories. His fondness of long words used to completely baffle my 13 year old self).
Anywho, I haven't been able to find a reference to the Squatter question in this thread, though I've looked through it twice. Perhaps it's the drowsiness talking... If you could link the precise post, that would be helpful. I also couldn't help but smile when I saw that you posted a link to... the same thread we're already on! ![]() |
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#22 |
Spirit of the Lonely Star
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 5,133
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The guy who be short.....
Yes, I did link to the same thread. ![]() Child
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Multitasking women are never too busy to vote. |
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#23 |
Shadowed Prince
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,343
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First, an apology to CotSA and anybody else I may have confused (including myself). That post was made an hour after my brain officially fell asleep, so I'm not sure it made much sense.
Anyway, HI's post merely names the smiley (its name is "Squatter") and the BW simply said he liked to use it to indicate he was wearing a red hat and smoking a pipe. Personally, I never use the squatter smiley. Does anybody use it, and if so, where? EDIT: I just remembered, I wanted the return of an evil smiley. This would be much appreciated by many Downers, I'm sure. Last edited by the guy who be short; 06-25-2005 at 03:22 PM. |
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#24 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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Here's the background information for the "Squatter" smilie:
When the Downs moved its discussion forum to this nifty new location, there was a major problem with the transfer of the movie forum. Squatter, who is not only a wonderful writer but also a computer expert, was instrumental in ironing out the wrinkles and getting the problems fixed. As his reward for that heroic task, he asked for that smilie to be restored for posting, and the Wight added an extra touch by naming it for him.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#25 |
Hauntress of the Havens
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: IN it, but not OF it
Posts: 2,538
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That's cool!
![]() And I second the return of the evil smiley. |
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#26 |
Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,859
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I've just realised that the movement in this smiley
![]() And that definitely deserves a ![]() ![]()
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Los Ingobernables de Harlond |
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#27 |
Shadowed Prince
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Thulcandra
Posts: 2,343
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For some reason, by computer doesn't let the smileys move. I have no idea why, but they are perpetually frozen.
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#28 | |
Fluttering Enchantment
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Quote:
![]() I third the evil smilie! But not to replace Squatter, I use that all the time. ![]() ![]()
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Comme une étoile amarante Comme un papillon de nuit C'est la lumière qui m'attire La flamme qui m'éblouit Fenris Muffin
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#29 |
Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 7,547
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Concerning the evil smilie: when I want to use it, I use the "insert image" function. http://www.corsaclub.de/smilies/23.gif is the web address that I use:
![]() ![]() I sometimes use the ![]() ![]() Hey, what do you know? By making the evil smilie an image, I got four smilies! |
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#30 |
Sword of Spirit
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Oh, I'm around.
Posts: 1,401
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I definitely use
![]() The ![]() After that, I usually use ![]()
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I'm on a Mission from God. |
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#31 |
Auspicious Wraith
Join Date: May 2002
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 4,859
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'Ello, 'ello, what do we have 'ere, then?
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Los Ingobernables de Harlond |
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#32 |
Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,205
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I actually was wondering if members are allowed to use that one, or if it's restricted to only Estelyn
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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#33 | |
Spectre of Capitalism
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Battling evil bureaucrats at Zeta Aquilae
Posts: 987
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Anyone can use this smiley, but I created it for Esty, in response to a comment from her in our "Return of the Entish Beings" Discussion Thread:
Quote:
It's an homage to Estelyn, for all the hard work she does around the forum, moderating and helping out all over the place, and for her dogged persistence in shepherding two Entish Bow RP games to completion, and now working on the third installment. Her dedication to this board is amazing, and her efforts have gone a long way to making the Downs the great place it is. All hail Esty! Praise her with great praise!
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The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. ~~ Marcus Aurelius |
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#34 |
La Belle Dame sans Merci
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All praises are deserved many times over.
Thanks for everything you do here, Esty, and for being so darned patient. If I ever decide it's time to play nicely with others, you'll be one of the ones I'm attempting to emulate. Fantastic.
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peace
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#35 |
Spectre of Decay
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This is the first time I've seen this thread. I feel like Buliwyf in The 13th Warrior: 'Are you wearing that long face for me?' I had no idea I was thought of so highly.
Further to the origins of my smiley: I'm not that much of an expert; I just did a bit of php scripting when BW needed a hand with Movies. My disproportionate reward for not accidentally deleting the forum was my cancerous yellow friend. ![]() As it happens, he replaces this old fellow: the pimp smiley from the original EZBoard forum, of whom I'm quite fond. [EDIT]: I've just realised that not everyone can see that smiley, so I've changed it into an attachment.
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Man kenuva métim' andúne? Last edited by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh; 03-27-2007 at 12:18 PM. |
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#36 |
Alive without breath
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: On A Cold Wind To Valhalla
Posts: 5,912
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I've made some smilies in my time. Including Gandalf,
![]() ![]() Also, I think we should have these fellows: ![]() ![]() ![]()
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I think that if you want facts, then The Downer Newspaper is probably the place to go. I know! I read it once. THE PHANTOM AND ALIEN: The Legend of the Golden Bus Ticket... |
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#37 |
Guard of the Citadel
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oxon
Posts: 2,205
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I second Hookbill on this one.
Phantom, Alien and also Serious smileys are definitely necessary!
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“The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike.”
Delos B. McKown |
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#38 |
Spectre of Capitalism
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Battling evil bureaucrats at Zeta Aquilae
Posts: 987
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I am informed that there are a minimum of smileys available on this site, and there is a reason: this is a forum that encourages both reading and creative thought expressed verbally. Smileys are shortcuts (after a fashion) that short-circuit the communication process. In moderation they can be fun, but I understand not multiplying them excessively. (One of the reasons this thread was started was to try to decipher what certain smileys mean, and the variety of comments shows that smileys can be easily misunderstood or used in various contexts to mean different things.)
You could petition the Wight to add these new smileys, but I don't expect he'll receive them gladly. Estelyn is a bit of an exception, deserving of the honor. And the new smiley can be used in various contexts, but the one that occurs to me is sort of an "aw shucks, you mean li'l ol' me?"
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The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. ~~ Marcus Aurelius |
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#39 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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Quote:
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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#40 | |
La Belle Dame sans Merci
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Quote:
Smilies are just slightly more complex symbols, and surely a forum based so much on intelligent communication prizes the artful complexitiy of message? And as we've all heard, a picture is worth a thousand words. And even Tolkien included illustrations. ![]()
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peace
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