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#1 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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Now that Shadow of Mordor is out, I'm seriously considering buying it.
It's basically the Batman Arkham games, with a lot of orc killing, a severely lore broken story which makes no sense, some more orc killing, a political system, and a nice open world. Because of the awful artistic license taken on the story, I'm going to go out of my way to avoid all of these wraith abilities and things. I've heard from a multitude of people that some things you can't avoid, which is unfortunate, but it's probably still worth playing the game just for a nice deal of fun. Thoughts? |
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#2 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Back in January I had a short-lived discussion about it here:
http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18621 Having played Assassin's Creed 1, 2, Brotherhood, Revelations and some of 3 and 4 in the last few years (goodness knows why, I think the historical gimmick and the climbing buildings gimmick suckered me in) I think I'm a bit burned out on this kind of action game. I played the Battle for Middle-earth strategy games but they were basically just interpretations of events from the books (and films of course). I'm not so interested in some fan-fic a bunch of game developers (who let's face it, are not in a profession generally renowned for great writing in the mainstream Triple-A industry at least) have cooked up. This is why I said in the other thread that the Kin-strife might be good fodder for a game: lots of juicy racism, extremely violent, obvious villain (Castamir), also doesn't have to wildly contradict original narrative material.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. Last edited by Zigûr; 09-30-2014 at 06:10 AM. |
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#3 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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The nemesis system looks very interesting and worth playing around with. I've never really experienced good orc killing before, because War in the North just fell so very flat for me, so I think I would enjoy that aspect of it. It seems like that after a few driver updates, it will be running reasonably well. After watching TotalBiscuit's *** is... video on it, I'm pretty sure I can try and snag it at the end of the year. |
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#4 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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It is things like this game that make me wish pop culture would leave Tolkien alone.
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#5 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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I'm sort of on the fence about this. I do love a good deal of orc killing, and walking through Middle Earth, but when someone tries to tamper with the lore, I just can't stand it, especially when it doesn't even make any sense. If they wanted to do their own lore, they should at least not make it clash with anything, and work hard for it to be realistic in setting and make sense.
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#6 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: At the Mountains of Madness
Posts: 399
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Whazzat? Walking through Middle-earth? Orc killing? Anger at lore-tampering?
Have you checked this out?
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Agannâlô burôda nênud; zâira nênud.
Adûn izindi batân tâidô ayadda: îdô kâtha batîna lôkhî. Êphalak îdôn Yôzâyan. Êphal êphalak îdôn hi-Akallabêth. |
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#7 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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So, being a masochist, and in some small way wanting to try to give it a fair shake, but mostly thinking "surely this will be just as bad as I expect", I started watching a Let's Play of Shadow of Mordor. It did not disappoint. I immediately noted that the orcs looked like something straight out of Warhammer or World of Warcraft. However, I did not intend to come here and comment on that. Then the LPer even commented that the orcs looked like something out of Warhammer or World of Warcraft. I still did not intend to come here and comment on that. However, when I saw Thrall from his young gangsta days I could no longer resist. As a minor aside, I just discovered that WB made every LPer they could get their hands on take down their videos of the game. The cynical mind wonders if they have something to hide. ![]()
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... Last edited by Kuruharan; 10-01-2014 at 08:22 PM. Reason: added an aside |
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#8 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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a) who gets advertising money from the video, which is used as the excuse for: b) big companies like WB are scared that Let's Play videos will put people off getting the game or they will watch the video instead of bothering to buy the game. It's especially problematic, I think, in this time when big-budget modern video games are so devoted to flashy graphics and spectacle. Often people care more about seeing what happens than playing it themselves, probably because these games are so repetitive. This is just more dilution of Tolkien into 'franchise' and 'product,' a process which will continue to hold back the efforts to have these texts taken seriously as literature.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#9 | |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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#10 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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From what I've seen, all of the people who got a review copy had seen the movies (obviously), a few had read the books, the vast minority had read extended universe lore like the Silmarillion, but none had a historian's knowledge of it. Nobody was incredibly well versed in the lore, so it didn't really bother them.
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#11 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ensconced in curmudgeonly pursuits
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There will never be a concerted effort to devise a canonistic version of a Middle-earth video game. That went out the door when Middle-earth Online (MEO) was abandoned for the farcical Lord of the Rings Online (LOTRO). I was among several well-versed gamers who spent a few years offering input into the original MEO, but the developer (Turbine, may their name be forever cursed) abandoned the original concept for a World of Warcraft knock-off renamed LOTRO that Turbine wanted to market as direct competition for said WoW.
I alpha and beta tested LOTRO, levelled out several times with several characters, and became violently ill at the inane end result. I never played a Middle-earth based game again. As a farewell present, I offered a blistering review of the aborted offspring of Turbine, and I am sure the name Morthoron the Dark Elf is still whispered fearfully in dark corners of their misbegotten forums. ![]()
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#12 | ||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
Posts: 3,589
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However, to provide further context for the quoted post I was meaning that people might see the gameplay itself and not like it, thus deterring them from buying the game. Quote:
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#13 |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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Minecraft Middle Earth is a pretty good fan community project. The only problem is that there is a different community who sit on teamspeak and do nothing all day.
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#14 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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I came across a synopsis of the plot of this game. Let's just say it gave me a new appreciation for Peter Jackson's gifts as a storyteller and an appreciation for his faithful adherence to the letter and spirit of Tolkien's works.
You may mark this day on your calendar. ![]()
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#15 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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I really don't understand how hard it is to set something in the first age around an event with basically no details, then invent your own characters for it. That way, nobody can complain are lore breaking, because you confined it to a certain event, you made your own characters that nobody can criticize for not being what the character was actually like, and the gameplay can still be amazing. What idiots we have making our games. Seriously, the title 'Middle Earth: Insert Name Here' will sell. Doesn't need to be recognizable by anyone, because they will buy it. |
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#16 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#17 | |||
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: A Remote Dwarven Hold
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The plot of the game is contrary to the letter and spirit of Tolkien falling literally under the label of something Tolkien repeatedly criticized in "trying to use the weapons and means of the Enemy against him" with first Celebrimbor and then the Celebrimbor/Talion wraith-hybrid dominating and using orc armies to fight Sauron and trying to set themselves up as the "Bright Lords of Mordor." Vomitus stuff, really.
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#18 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: The Deepest Forges of Ered Luin
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It could easily have been an appendix in the RotK, or had some mention in the main story, as a background/aside.
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Even as fog continues to lie in the valleys, so does ancient sin cling to the low places, the depression in the world consciousness. |
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#19 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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-at one point Celebrimbor stole the One Ring and tried to take over Mordor himself, Orcs and all (what happened to the War of the Elves and Sauron?) -Núrn was a kingdom of seafarers taken over by Sauron and their true queen was possessed by Saruman (did they think their Lake was so big it was actually the ocean?) -outcasts from Gondor live inside Mordor (presumably the Lord of the Nazgûl was confounded by some loophole when it came to evicting squatters) -human sacrifice, instead of being the intentionally wasteful practice of a mendacious religion, actually has magical powers -Sauron can possess people? -Men think they can make Rings of Power -Celebrimbor's spirit hung around for four thousand years or so instead of heading straight for Mandos after he was slain The only idea that comes across as remotely plausible to me is the notion of Black Númenórean lieutenants with titles rather than names. As I speculated in that other thread, of course, it'd probably be a violence-for-violence's-sake generic revenge story that completely contradicts the arguments of Tolkien's work, and clearly it is. I predict that someone on the internet at some point will inexplicably use Túrin as an example to justify this.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#20 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
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Interesting article here about how the game contradicts Professor Tolkien's themes by presenting violence and revenge as entertainment:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti...ien-Fanfiction A highlight is this remark which I think could also apply to a lot of commentary on both the books and adaptations: Quote:
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#21 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
Posts: 8,036
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#22 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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That's the problem with a lot of Tolkien discourse, I think. It's so muddled between critical thinking and pop-culture-style consumption. I get the impression it's been this way since long before there was anything but the books, though.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#23 | |
Wight
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Armenelos, Númenor
Posts: 205
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Being a fan of the books means that you care about what happens, and while you can be a fan of both, I find the story of Shadow of Mordor to just be insulting and ungood. Last edited by Tar-Jêx; 10-23-2014 at 05:17 AM. |
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#24 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 785
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Unfortunately I have just learned that a sequel to this game is coming out, which apparently (absurdly) involves the main character making his own Ring (something even Saruman seems to have failed to properly do) and challenging Sauron for supremacy.
![]() Just another piece of consumerist sputum vomited out of the adaptation meat-grinder I suppose.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#25 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Heaven's doorstep
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#26 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#27 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
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I've already seen someone say it's "true to the spirit of Tolkien". It's almost like there's a standard-issue crib sheet or something for these people's opinions.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#28 |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
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I'm surprised they even feel inclined to try and justify it. Someone like me, who wears the 'Canon' mantle overtly, wouldn't seem to be in their target market demographic. I would think the games would aimed at the next-gen movie fans. With PJ's films as the sole benchmark of canon, I wouldn't think an effort to harmonize the games with the original works would be a priority.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#29 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Aug 2012
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I think my biggest problem with this is it just contributes all the more to the miasma of misinformation which surrounds the books, the culture in which the books are treated as completely interchangeable with the adaptations.
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"Since the evening of that day we have journeyed from the shadow of Tol Brandir." "On foot?" cried Éomer. |
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#30 |
Regal Dwarven Shade
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I think that is it.
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...finding a path that cannot be found, walking a road that cannot be seen, climbing a ladder that was never placed, or reading a paragraph that has no... |
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#31 | |
Wisest of the Noldor
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#32 | |
Gruesome Spectre
Join Date: Dec 2000
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On this forum the Canon is used to support or deconstruct various discussions, and obviously the vast majority here are ardent fans of the books. But I have difficulty seeing why the general public, especially the 'gamer' clique, would be so concerned about the 'legitimacy' of the games. Are they that sensitive to criticisms of the games they perceive might come from people, say, like us? Admittedly, I may have a colored view of those who would buy games like SoM, and devoted readers of the books might well be also avid gamers who could overlook the extreme liberties taken with the source material. I'm just not one of those people.
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Music alone proves the existence of God. |
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#33 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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Even people who aren't into art would prefer a genuine Mona Lisa to a poster. Authenticity makes things cooler. Saying that it's an exact replica makes it better than admitting it's a scribbled colouring book.
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#34 |
Curmudgeonly Wordwraith
Join Date: Jun 2007
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You mean like a later artist haphazardly adding a second female character into the background of Leonardo da Vinci's masterpiece and renaming the painting "Mona Lisa and Tauriel"?
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#35 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
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No, I mean literally like a scribbled colouring book. But the outlines are all drawn based on Da Vinci's unpublished material, and the CGI application of colour is done in his style. It's a true replica of his work, I tell you!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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