A question about Merry's location - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

01-03-2002, 05:27 PM

I just finished reading The Lord Of The Rings for the first time (amazing, of course!) and I noticed what may be a mistake in the storyline.
In The Return Of The King, Chapter 10, the Black Gate Opens, Merry stays behind when everyone leaves to go to Mordor and fight the final battle against Sauron.

"But Merry to his shame was not to go with them.
'You are not fit for such a journey,' said Aragorn. 'But do not be ashamed. If you do no more in this war, you have already earned great honour. Peregrin shall go and represent the Shirefolk; and do not grudge him his change of peril, for though he has done as well as his fortune allowed him, he has yet to match your deed. But in truth all now are in like danger. Though it may be our part to find a bitter end before the Gate of Mordor, if we do so, then you will come also to a last stand, either here or wherever the black tide overtakes you. Farewell!'"

So they leave, Merry stays behind. The tale returns to Frodo and Sam, they destroy the ring, are brought back to Ithilien by Gandalf and the Eagles and once they wake, they go to dinner in Chapter 4, The Field Of Cormallen.

"But when, after the Standing Silence, wine was brought there came in two esquires to serve the kings; or so they seemed to be: one was clad in the silver and sable of the Guards of Minas Tirith, and the other in white and green. But Sam wondered what such young boys were doing in an army of mighty men. Then suddenly as they drew near and he could see them plainly, he exlaimed:
'Why, look Mr. Frodo! Look here! Well, if it isn't Pippin. Mr. Peregrin Took, I should say, and Mr. Merry! How they have grown. Bless me. But I can see there's more tales to tell than ours.'
'There are indeed,' said Pippin turning towards him. 'And we'll begin telling them, as soon as this feast is ended. In the meantime you can try Gandalf. He's not so close as he used to be, though he laughs now more than he talks. For the present Merry and I are busy. We are knights of the City and of the Mark, as I hope you observe.'"

And they talk and remark on how tall Pippin and Merry have grown from the Ent-draughts and all that. But is it just me, or is Merry supposed to still be back in Minas Tirith? They mention him again in Chapter 5, The Steward And The King, when Faramir wants help winning Eowyn over. Later in the same chapter it says:

"Merry was summoned and rode away with the wains that took store of goods to Osgiliath and thence by ship to Cair Andros..."

But that wouldn't put him in Ithilien with the army, would it? Is there some sort of time-lapse in between the chapters, am I just insane, or is there actually a mistake in the book?

Mindy

***Mithadan*** · 01-03-2002, 06:08 PM

Welcome to the Barrow-Downs Mindilea! If you look in the appendices to LoTR you will find a timeline and you will discover that Frodo and Sam were apparently unconscious for some time before the dinner described in your quote.

01-03-2002, 07:10 PM

Thanks for the welcome!
I know what you mean, that a lot of time did pass before Frodo and Sam woke up. So I went ahead and checked dates on all of the events that I had quoted.

March 15th - Merry and Eowyn are wounded and put in the House of Healing.
March 18th - The West marches on Mordor. Merry stays behind.
March 20th - Eowyn gets up and wants to leave. She speaks with Faramir for the first time. Faramir speaks with Merry.
March 25th - Frodo destroys the Ring.
? - Merry is summoned to Osgiliath and Cair Andros
April 8th - Frodo and Sam wake up. Merry is present at the dinner on the Field of Cormallen in Ithilien.
May 1st - Everyone returns to Minas Tirith.

I suppose it is remotely possible that Merry went from Osgiliath to Cair Andros to the Field of Cormallen in the space of a week. What do you think?

Elrian · 01-03-2002, 11:22 PM

It would be possible for that journey to be made in a week, Tolkien was pretty thorough with his time frames and seasons.

Lotrelf · 03-16-2014, 04:15 AM

I was wondering the same. I'll go and read the appendices. Thanks.

Mithalwen · 04-06-2014, 03:26 PM

Map 46 of the journeys of Frodo shows Cair Andros as being about forty miles up river from Osgiliath. The field of Cormallen is thirty miles more. All in all probably no more than a hundred miles from Minas Tirith. Merry could have walked it in a week but probably went by boat.

01-03-2002, 05:27 PM	#1
mindilea327 Guest Posts: n/a	A question about Merry's location I just finished reading The Lord Of The Rings for the first time (amazing, of course!) and I noticed what may be a mistake in the storyline. In The Return Of The King, Chapter 10, the Black Gate Opens, Merry stays behind when everyone leaves to go to Mordor and fight the final battle against Sauron. "But Merry to his shame was not to go with them. 'You are not fit for such a journey,' said Aragorn. 'But do not be ashamed. If you do no more in this war, you have already earned great honour. Peregrin shall go and represent the Shirefolk; and do not grudge him his change of peril, for though he has done as well as his fortune allowed him, he has yet to match your deed. But in truth all now are in like danger. Though it may be our part to find a bitter end before the Gate of Mordor, if we do so, then you will come also to a last stand, either here or wherever the black tide overtakes you. Farewell!'" So they leave, Merry stays behind. The tale returns to Frodo and Sam, they destroy the ring, are brought back to Ithilien by Gandalf and the Eagles and once they wake, they go to dinner in Chapter 4, The Field Of Cormallen. "But when, after the Standing Silence, wine was brought there came in two esquires to serve the kings; or so they seemed to be: one was clad in the silver and sable of the Guards of Minas Tirith, and the other in white and green. But Sam wondered what such young boys were doing in an army of mighty men. Then suddenly as they drew near and he could see them plainly, he exlaimed: 'Why, look Mr. Frodo! Look here! Well, if it isn't Pippin. Mr. Peregrin Took, I should say, and Mr. Merry! How they have grown. Bless me. But I can see there's more tales to tell than ours.' 'There are indeed,' said Pippin turning towards him. 'And we'll begin telling them, as soon as this feast is ended. In the meantime you can try Gandalf. He's not so close as he used to be, though he laughs now more than he talks. For the present Merry and I are busy. We are knights of the City and of the Mark, as I hope you observe.'" And they talk and remark on how tall Pippin and Merry have grown from the Ent-draughts and all that. But is it just me, or is Merry supposed to still be back in Minas Tirith? They mention him again in Chapter 5, The Steward And The King, when Faramir wants help winning Eowyn over. Later in the same chapter it says: "Merry was summoned and rode away with the wains that took store of goods to Osgiliath and thence by ship to Cair Andros..." But that wouldn't put him in Ithilien with the army, would it? Is there some sort of time-lapse in between the chapters, am I just insane, or is there actually a mistake in the book? Mindy

01-03-2002, 06:08 PM	#2
*Mithadan* Spirit of Mist Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Tol Eressea Posts: 3,374	Welcome to the Barrow-Downs Mindilea! If you look in the appendices to LoTR you will find a timeline and you will discover that Frodo and Sam were apparently unconscious for some time before the dinner described in your quote. __________________ Beleriand, Beleriand, the borders of the Elven-land.

01-03-2002, 11:22 PM	#4
Elrian Eldar Spirit of Truth Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Land of the FREE, Home of the BRAVE Posts: 794	It would be possible for that journey to be made in a week, Tolkien was pretty thorough with his time frames and seasons. __________________ ~Call me a relic, call me what you will. Say I'm old fashioned , say I'm over the hill. That old whine ain't got no soul. I'll stick to Old Toby and a Hobbit hole.~

03-16-2014, 04:15 AM	#5
Lotrelf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 265	I was wondering the same. I'll go and read the appendices. Thanks. __________________ A short saying oft contains much wisdom. ~Sophocles

04-06-2014, 03:26 PM	#6
Mithalwen Pilgrim Soul Join Date: May 2004 Location: watching the wonga-wonga birds circle... Posts: 9,455	Map 46 of the journeys of Frodo shows Cair Andros as being about forty miles up river from Osgiliath. The field of Cormallen is thirty miles more. All in all probably no more than a hundred miles from Minas Tirith. Merry could have walked it in a week but probably went by boat. __________________ “But Finrod walks with Finarfin his father beneath the trees in Eldamar.” Christopher Tolkien, Requiescat in pace

01-03-2002, 07:10 PM	#3
mindilea327 Guest Posts: n/a	Thanks for the welcome! I know what you mean, that a lot of time did pass before Frodo and Sam woke up. So I went ahead and checked dates on all of the events that I had quoted. March 15th - Merry and Eowyn are wounded and put in the House of Healing. March 18th - The West marches on Mordor. Merry stays behind. March 20th - Eowyn gets up and wants to leave. She speaks with Faramir for the first time. Faramir speaks with Merry. March 25th - Frodo destroys the Ring. ? - Merry is summoned to Osgiliath and Cair Andros April 8th - Frodo and Sam wake up. Merry is present at the dinner on the Field of Cormallen in Ithilien. May 1st - Everyone returns to Minas Tirith. I suppose it is remotely possible that Merry went from Osgiliath to Cair Andros to the Field of Cormallen in the space of a week. What do you think?