So he is responsible....... - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Urwen · 01-02-2017, 01:43 PM

I got it now, Sauron is responsible for our suffering.

Note: and this isn't one of my crackpot theories either. This is real.

From TvTropes:

"Lúthien and Huan defeat Sauron on his island, and Sauron has to fly back to Dorthonion still bleeding from his throat. One look at the map shows that Sauron must have been pretty hurt and panicked, because the shortest and thus fastest way includes flying straight over Gondolin and there is no mention anywhere that he reported finding, let alone noticed, the one city Morgoth has been looking for the most."

So basically, his lack of attention doomed my family.

Inziladun · 01-02-2017, 04:52 PM

Well, even if Sauron had literally 'flown' through the air, as opposed to simply 'flying' (fleeing, generally), I think there's enough mountainous terrain surrounding Gondolin that Sauron needn't have flown directly over the city. In fact, knowledge of the Eagles in the area might have caused him to detour away from there.

Urwen · 01-02-2017, 05:11 PM

No, it all makes sense, and if he shared that info, my family wouldn't have had to suffer. Gonna drag him down with me.

(Okay, maybe I need a scapegoat to blame, but you gotta understand: my family did get a short end of the straw, and while we might be responsible for some of the suffering we endured, we can't be responsible for all of it, so someone has to be responsible. Maybe if I had lived, I could have averted the brunt of it, but I didn't)

Galadriel55 · 01-02-2017, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inzil

Well, even if Sauron had literally 'flown' through the air, as opposed to simply 'flying' (fleeing, generally),*

So basically the question of the century is this...

DOES SAURON HAVE WINGS?

Inziladun · 01-03-2017, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

DOES SAURON HAVE WINGS?

Ah! Of course he does!

That completely explains something I was wondering about. Sauron had an alternate flying form and started his own evil race!

Pitchwife · 01-03-2017, 03:30 PM

Wait a sec. Let's suppose for a moment Sauron in flight had actually seen Gondolin and returned to his boss reporting its precise geographical position. What would have happened?

Morgoth, I think, would have attempted to attack and take it ASAP (Turgon always used to make him nervous, remember?). He might have taken a little longer without a Maeglin to help him from the inside, but I wager Gondolin would have fallen a lot earlier than it did.

What follows from this? No marriage of Tuor and Idril. No Eärendil. Nobody to plead for both Edain and Eldar before the Valar. Maybe no War of Wrath. Morgoth wins and establishes unchallenged dominion over Middle-earth. MWAHAHA!

Remind me again why this would have been preferable.

Urwen · 01-03-2017, 03:45 PM

So according to you, duty to the world is more important? You just sacrifice your mother, father, sister or brother? But of course, you fulfilled your duty and that's the only thing that matters.

Yeah, no. One's family is more important to them than some Middle Earth.

And I am the one considered insane here?

This approach you have is also sexist, by the way. You immediately assume that Idril might not be able to make it out of the carnage. If anyone in Gondolin could make it out, it's her. So the prophecy would still work, just would be fulfilled a little differently than in the books.

gondowe · 01-04-2017, 05:33 AM

Sorry but. Independently of the Eagles, that is a very important wall against everything that wanted to fly many miles near Gondolin, Sauron's direct way to Dorthonion (Taur-nu-fuin) is not over Gondolin (from Tol-Sirion), is north of Encircling Mountains, so ,at least for me, Sauron never could see Gondolin.

Greetings.

Nerwen · 01-05-2017, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gondowe

Sorry but. Independently of the Eagles, that is a very important wall against everything that wanted to fly many miles near Gondolin, Sauron's direct way to Dorthonion (Taur-nu-fuin) is not over Gondolin (from Tol-Sirion), is north of Encircling Mountains, so ,at least for me, Sauron never could see Gondolin.

Greetings.

Indeed, one look at the map actually shows that the "troper" probably should have taken two looks at the map.

However, it would be the direct route to Doriath- a possible confusion?

William Cloud Hicklin · 01-06-2017, 07:46 AM

Let'as also remember that the ability to fly does not necessarily mean the ability to fly at any altitude one likes. Most birds and early aircraft, and all bats, couldn't manage the 5000 meters or so required (obviously Thorondor's Eagles had wings like a U-2....). Just like aircraft in the pre-jet age, the way to handle high mountain ranges was to go around them.

01-02-2017, 01:43 PM	#1
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,381	So he is responsible....... I got it now, Sauron is responsible for our suffering. Note: and this isn't one of my crackpot theories either. This is real. From TvTropes: "Lúthien and Huan defeat Sauron on his island, and Sauron has to fly back to Dorthonion still bleeding from his throat. One look at the map shows that Sauron must have been pretty hurt and panicked, because the shortest and thus fastest way includes flying straight over Gondolin and there is no mention anywhere that he reported finding, let alone noticed, the one city Morgoth has been looking for the most." So basically, his lack of attention doomed my family. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

01-02-2017, 04:52 PM	#2
Inziladun Gruesome Spectre Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Heaven's doorstep Posts: 8,037	Well, even if Sauron had literally 'flown' through the air, as opposed to simply 'flying' (fleeing, generally), I think there's enough mountainous terrain surrounding Gondolin that Sauron needn't have flown directly over the city. In fact, knowledge of the Eagles in the area might have caused him to detour away from there. __________________ Music alone proves the existence of God.

01-02-2017, 05:11 PM	#3
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,381	No, it all makes sense, and if he shared that info, my family wouldn't have had to suffer. Gonna drag him down with me. (Okay, maybe I need a scapegoat to blame, but you gotta understand: my family did get a short end of the straw, and while we might be responsible for some of the suffering we endured, we can't be responsible for all of it, so someone has to be responsible. Maybe if I had lived, I could have averted the brunt of it, but I didn't) __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

01-03-2017, 03:30 PM	#6
Pitchwife Wight of the Old Forest Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall Posts: 3,329	Wait a sec. Let's suppose for a moment Sauron in flight had actually seen Gondolin and returned to his boss reporting its precise geographical position. What would have happened? Morgoth, I think, would have attempted to attack and take it ASAP (Turgon always used to make him nervous, remember?). He might have taken a little longer without a Maeglin to help him from the inside, but I wager Gondolin would have fallen a lot earlier than it did. What follows from this? No marriage of Tuor and Idril. No Eärendil. Nobody to plead for both Edain and Eldar before the Valar. Maybe no War of Wrath. Morgoth wins and establishes unchallenged dominion over Middle-earth. MWAHAHA! Remind me again why this would have been preferable. __________________ Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI

01-03-2017, 03:45 PM	#7
Urwen Spirit of Nen Lalaith Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Meneltarma Posts: 5,381	So according to you, duty to the world is more important? You just sacrifice your mother, father, sister or brother? But of course, you fulfilled your duty and that's the only thing that matters. Yeah, no. One's family is more important to them than some Middle Earth. And I am the one considered insane here? This approach you have is also sexist, by the way. You immediately assume that Idril might not be able to make it out of the carnage. If anyone in Gondolin could make it out, it's her. So the prophecy would still work, just would be fulfilled a little differently than in the books. __________________ Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia.

01-04-2017, 05:33 AM	#8
gondowe Wight Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 246	Sorry but. Independently of the Eagles, that is a very important wall against everything that wanted to fly many miles near Gondolin, Sauron's direct way to Dorthonion (Taur-nu-fuin) is not over Gondolin (from Tol-Sirion), is north of Encircling Mountains, so ,at least for me, Sauron never could see Gondolin. Greetings.

01-06-2017, 07:46 AM	#10
William Cloud Hicklin Loremaster of Annúminas Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 2,319	Let'as also remember that the ability to fly does not necessarily mean the ability to fly at any altitude one likes. Most birds and early aircraft, and all bats, couldn't manage the 5000 meters or so required (obviously Thorondor's Eagles had wings like a U-2....). Just like aircraft in the pre-jet age, the way to handle high mountain ranges was to go around them. __________________ The entire plot of The Lord of the Rings could be said to turn on what Sauron didn’t know, and when he didn’t know it.