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04-25-2002, 07:39 PM | #1 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Marish
Posts: 17
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Goblins, Orcs, and Arwen
Hello, I was wondering what the difference between a goblin and a orc is, and I thought you guys would know. I was also wondering who Arwen's parents are.
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Lossenavariel |
04-25-2002, 07:43 PM | #2 |
Hostess of Spirits
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I am not sure what the difference between orcs and goblins are. I always took them being the same thing.
As for Arwen's parents: Elrond and Celebrian (daughter of Galadriel and Celeborn) |
04-26-2002, 04:49 AM | #3 |
Wight
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: My own little wierd, wierd world
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i always thought goblins and orcs were the same race too, although i did read (somewhere) that goblins were smaller and generally weaker, like tribes that lived in the mountains instead of the ones bred specifically for war
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04-26-2002, 06:38 AM | #4 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: across the sea
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I was told that
Quote:
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04-26-2002, 10:20 AM | #5 |
Haunting Spirit
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There is a very neat little site caled the Hypertextualized Tolkien, which has answers to questions like this...all backed up with proof. They say that Orcs and Goblins are the same thing. My own personal theory is that Orcs from Mordor are more likely to be called Orcs, while orcs from elsewhere are more likely to be called Goblins. however, I have no reason for thinking that...so I might be very very wrong.
anyhoo...here's the site http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~bouvin/tolkienfaq.ht
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04-26-2002, 10:42 AM | #6 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Jan 2002
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Orc is not an English word. It occurs in one or two places but is usually translated goblin (or hobgoblin fot he larger kinds). Orc is the hobbits' form of the name given at that time to these creatures, and it is not connected at all with orc, ork, applied to sea-animals of dolphin-kind. - The Hobbit
Orcs (the word is as far as I am concerned actually derived from Old English orc 'demon', but only because of its phonetic suitability) are nowhere clearly stated to be of any particular origin. But since they are servants of the Dark Power, and later of Sauron, neither of whom could, or would, produce living things, they must be 'corruptions'. They are not based on direct experience of mine; but owe, I suppose, a good deal to the goblin tradition (goblin is used as a translation in The Hobbit, where orc only occurs once, I think), especially as it appears in George MacDonald, except for the soft feet which I never believed in. The name has the form orch (pl. yrch) in Sindarin and uruk in the Black Speech. - Tolkien letter 144 To Naomi Mitchison
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04-26-2002, 12:06 PM | #7 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 18
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Half hobbit: I think your might be mistaken on your theory about the name orc coming exclusively from mordor and goblins are from elsewhere. For in The Sil. it says that orcs where first made at Utumno, and they were even called orcs when they occupied Angband. But I think someone said it best in a previous line that. Goblins were from the Hobbit and orcs are from LOTR. I personally believe that goblin by nature is a less "scary" word then orc and being that "The Hobbit" was more of a childrens book it is only fitting that Tolkien used Goblin instead of orc. And since the first drafts of the Simarillian were found all the way back to 1917 with the word orc in it I feel that the "kid" aspect is the only reason he used Goblin instead of orc.
And while I'm on the subject of child phychology I might as well add this as well. Goblin is a more widely used and defined term then orc, and since The Hobbit being a kids book is aimed at their growing minds Tolkien may of wanted to use the simpliest explanation necessary. Just my thoughts I guess... |
04-26-2002, 12:11 PM | #8 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 20
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I thought Sauron (or some one like him) tortured elfes and thats how the Orcs were "made", I'm pretty sure that's what is said about them in FOTR.
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04-26-2002, 05:46 PM | #9 |
Pile O'Bones
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: The Marish
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Thank you guys!!! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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Lossenavariel |
04-27-2002, 05:54 PM | #10 |
Wight
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Mici Firya
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Orcs were originally elves. There were some elves who in the first Age after their awakening, before they really had any idea of what he was, were captured by Melkor. Melkor tortured and twisted and corrupted them into what we know as orcs. Then again, Sauron - Melkor's right hand - "evolved" them further, like e.g. the Uruk-Hai.
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