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#1 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Just like to discuss a few name changes, if I may.
First of all 'Mahtan' as the name of Nerdanel's father. This is encountered in LQ II. (This, is I think, though I cant be bothered to check the first time we encounter 'Mahtan'. Nerdanel first appeard in LQ I as Istarnië.) In notes that accompany the 'Shibboleth of Fëanor' we read that Nerdanel's fathers name was what C.T thinks reads 'Sarmo' and his Epessë 'Urundil', which was more widely known. (Like 'Ereinion' was widely known by his epessë 'Gil-Galad'). Could we call him 'Urundil' or 'Sarmo Urundil' or make a note that his name was Sarmo but he was widely known as Urundil because of the copper circlet he wore on his head or just retain 'Mahtan' to avoid confusion? 'Maedhros/Maedros'-In the 'Problem of Ros' we find out that Tolkien wanted to change his name to MaedRON due to the difficulties in incorporating 'rus'-'ros' as a refernce to his red-brown hair. 'Maedros' is a combination of his mother name and nick-name, Maitimo and Russandol. Also, the tendency of the Fëanorians in translating their mother-names, wouldn't it be better to call him Amarthan ('Fated one') then Amrod ,the Sindarin form of 'exalted'.(Of course in the Pub.Sil the twins are called Amrod (The Elder) and Amras (The Younger.)Tolkien comments on the use of Amarthan, saying 'whenever encountered' that was what was used, but what 'encountered' means I do not know, I assume it means spoken of? Should we give their Quenya names too? I feel it would be interesting, it would also give people info. on their characters. That is all for now. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]
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#2 | ||||
Late Istar
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It's good to see you here again, Inderjit.
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Since "Amrod" was retained in the Shibboleth, I'd rather stick with it, unless there's something I'm missing. And I always presumed that "Amrod" was translated not from "Umbarto" but from "Ambarto". But I guess there's no real evidence for or against this. Quote:
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#3 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Maedros, Maglor, Celegorm, Curufin, Caranthir, Amros, Amarthan./QUOTE] These are the notes on the translation on the Sindarin names of the sons of Fëanor, which C.T stated were too illegible for him to print there. They are found in 'Vinyar Tengwar 39'.
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#4 | |
Late Istar
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In other words, the original situation, the one that was preserved by the failure of the "Ros" idea, is that there are two distinct stems, one meaning "red-brown" and the other meaning "foam". Tolkien wanted to alter this so that the single meaning was "foam", and this was Beorian. But "Cair Andros" is a sindarin name, so the solution change was no good. In other words, I think that "Maedron" is dependent on the abandoned idea, and should thus not be used. Regarding "Amrod": the sense I get from the quote is that "Amrod" is the form to be used. It is difficult to judge what he means by "whenever encountered" (if that's even what he wrote). But it is clear that "Amrod" would have been the Sindarization of the name actually used. The difference comes down to a translation of "Ambarto" vs. a translation of "Umbarto". Of course, this situation is different from most name decisions because in fact both names are certainly valid and the decision is not which to take as canonical but which to use when he must be referred to. |
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#5 | |||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Of course there are several conclusions that we can reach from this. We can comment on the often ‘incorrect’ Sindarinization (If there is such a word) of the names of the Etyañgoldi (Such as say Aegnor) and so when translating his name and trying to find a Sindarin alternative, or the nearest Sindarin alternative to Ñoldorin and Telerin Quenya urus=RUSSandol, he stumbled upon or made up ‘Ros’ But this is unsatisfactory. The Sindarin form of “ros”=spray has nothing to do with the colour red and thus the two cannot be linked. Surely a Ñoldo would not make such a calamitous phonetic error especially in regards to his name? We do hear that with the exception of Maglor and Curufin the sons of Fëanor weren’t very semantically inclined but such a blunder is perplexing in my mind. Another theory that we can come up with is the form of ’ros’ in Cair AndROS can be seen as ‘incorrect’ since in ‘Rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor’ we hear; his Quote:
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Of course any change of the ‘ros’ form would effect the name ‘Amros’ derived from his mother-name Ambarussa. But I think the easiest solution could be to simply record ‘ros’ as a addition by the Ñoldor for the colour red, derived from russa. his
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#6 |
Late Istar
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I still disagree about "Maedron". But I'm home for the weekend and so, alas, without HoMe XII; and I don't want to venture into an analysis of "Ros" without having it in front of me. So I'll get back to you regarding this whole business sometime late Tuesday or Wednesday.
And, by the way, thanks for pointing out these issues. All three (Mahtan, Maedhros, and Amrod) had escaped me completely. [ October 31, 2003: Message edited by: Aiwendil ] |
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#7 | ||
Late Istar
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Okay, I've been reunited with my books.
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So as I see it the change of "Maedhros" to "Maedron" does depend on the change in "The Problem of Ros". If we decide to use "Maedron" we are essentially electing to keep half of the change. But my impression is that the whole idea was rejected. Nonetheless it's an interesting question and I'm eager to hear what others have to say. Quote:
That note is really quite mystifying, though - what could be meant by "when encountered at all"? Does it mean that the Noldor called him "Amarthan" after his death? Or does it mean that texts call him "Amarthan"? Do you know roughly when that note was written? All this may be somewhat moot, though; there will not be so very many occasions to refer to Amrod other than at his birth and at his death, in both of which cases his names will play a central role (and hence they will not necessitate a simple Amrod/Amarthan decision). |
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#8 | |||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Of course we could just say that -ros had two unconnected meanings, regardless of whether or not this makes any sense, claim as is said in 'Of Dwarves and Men' and 'Rivers and Beacon Hills of Gondor' that the rendering of the names within Gondor was inncaurate because of the inadequate knowledge of Sindarin of the people who named the places in Gondor and so and so keep -ros as a word for the colour red, and -ros also as a Bëorian word for spray/spindrift. Quote:
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Of course, one can see the sensibility of adopting 'Amrod' rather then 'Amarthan', since it was his 'proper' name, but I think Amarthan would have been the one that was remembered because of his fate. Quote:
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#9 | |||
Late Istar
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But prior to the writing of "The Problem of Ros", it had two distinct meanings, both in Sindarin; and in fact these two senses, according to the Etymologies, are from different stems. One is ROS- and the other RUS-. In fact, Etymologies even has some instances of the same stem bearing two distinct meanings; there is, for example, another ROS- meaning "plain". So what I had been assuming, in light of the rejection of the revised "Ros" idea, is that we would return to the situation where ROS- refers to "spray/spindrift" and RUS- to "reddish-brown, copper". In this case, "Maedhros", "Russandol", "Ambarussa", and so on, can all be retained alongside "Cair Andros", "Elros", etc. The other option is to eliminate the RUS- stem and leave ROS- as it is. But it is perhaps significant that this solution (which would seem the simplest) was never proposed by Tolkien. It would also leave us in a difficult spot with regard to other names and words derived from RUS-. For "Maedhros" we have a possible replacement, but not for "Russandol", "Ambarussa", or anything else. Quote:
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#10 |
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Just a thought no one's mentioned, but Orodreth should be changed to Arothir, and he is the son of angrod, not finarfin. I can't find where it says this, but it's in the note on Gil-galad's parentage in PoME.
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#11 |
King's Writer
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Arothir is one of his names. But Orodreth is still valid when we follow "The decendents of Finwë" in "The shibboleth of Fëanor" where Arothir is given.
In the case of his parentage you are clearly right. Respectfully Findegil |
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#12 |
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Yes, but Tolkien in one of his notes to shibboleth refers to Gil-galad being the son of Arothir, who is said to be Felagund's nephew and steward.
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#13 |
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Forgive that last post, I was missing the point. Orodreth is not a valid name. In genealogies around the time but perhaps before the Shibboleth, he is called in Quenya Artaresto and in Sindarin Orodreth. This later becomes in Quenya Artaher and in Sindarin Arothir. This can be found in the note on Gilgalad's parentage in POME
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Then Felagund upon the head of Arothir set it: "Nephew mine, till I return this crown is thine." |
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#14 |
Late Istar
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I thought that "Arothir" was his proper Sindarin name and "Orodreth" an epesse given due to his love for the mountains. I am inclined to think that "Orodreth" is still valid. But I may be wrong. I will have to look at Shibboleth again.
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#15 |
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You are thinking of his name Artaresto, which in Sindarin is Rodreth which became Orodreth for his love of the mountains.
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Then Felagund upon the head of Arothir set it: "Nephew mine, till I return this crown is thine." |
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#16 | |
The Kinslayer
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From The Peoples of ME: The Shibboleth of Fëanor
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By some strange reason I find myself liking the name Orodreth, so if I'm mistaken please let me know.
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#17 |
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I prefer Arothir. It sounds more noble and almost Quenya like. Has the spelling of Maedros been discussed? As in the dh or d?
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#18 |
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What about Maelor, that was a change that Tolkien sometimes made to Maglor.
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Then Felagund upon the head of Arothir set it: "Nephew mine, till I return this crown is thine." |
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#19 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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'Maelor' was used in the LQI (HoME 10) and in some notes which deal with Celebrimbor's lineage, which was given in the appendix to 'Of Dwarves and Men'. Both pre-date 'The Shibboleth of Fëanor (HoME 12), in which the name Maglor became fixed as his proper name.
<font size=1 color=339966>[ 1:39 PM December 24, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]
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#20 | |
The Kinslayer
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Regarding Orodreth/Artaresto/Artaher. It seems that the correct sindarized named of Artaher is Arothir, instead of the Rodreth - Orodreth name.
But does that mean necessarily that [Orodreth] would use the correct sindarized name Arothir? Lets suppose for a moment that we should use Arothir for the name of [Orodreth]. How then can we explain the use of the name Orodreth from the Ruling Stewards of Gondor? From The Lord of the Rings: Appendix A Quote:
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#21 |
Late Istar
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That is an excellent point that I never would have caught.
One could argue that the presence of the name "Orodreth" in LotR makes the change to "Arothir" a violation of principle 1 - that the texts published in Tolkien's lifetime are given first priority. That argument relies on the claim that there is a contradiction between the "Arothir" change and the name "Orodreth" in LotR. So we must decide whether there is such a contradiction. One could argue that "Orodreth" is a perfectly valid name for a steward of Gondor whether or not there was a First Age Orodreth. But clearly when the Appendix was written, Orodreth the Steward was intended to be named after Orodreth of Nargothrond. I'm not yet sure what to make of all this. |
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#22 | |
The Kinslayer
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A further note to take of is this:
From the Shibboleth of Fëanor Quote:
Plus the fact posted by Aiwendil that Orodreth the Steward of Gondor had that name because of [Orodreth] the King of Nargothrond.
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#23 |
Late Istar
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Re-reading this thread I noticed something - in note 65 to the "Shibboleth", it is stated that in a note associated with the text, the Sindarization of "Ambarussa" is given as "Amros" rather than "Amras".
Does this mean that we should be implementing a general change Amras > Amros? Or is there a later instance of "Amras" that nullifies the change? |
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#24 |
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I think Amros to be better: it appears in The Shibboleth (c. 1968) whereas the LQ2 (where Amras is attested) is dated from about 1958 (Compare also with rhosc ‘brown’ in the Etymologies).
aravanessë |
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#25 |
Late Istar
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Welcome to the project, aravanesse!
I think you are right - in any case, the Shibboleth is certainly later than LQ2. Unless we can find another instance of the name 'Amras' in the late writings, I think we will have to implement a change to 'Amros'. |
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#26 |
Pile O'Bones
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Thank you.
![]() Amros is also attested in a text dated from 1968 or later (in any cases, after the Shibboleth of Fëqnor), cf. The Problem of ROS. I have not found another references of Amras in HoMe X, XI and XII that don't belong to LQ2 or to a later text. (Moreover, what do you think about the 'five sons of Fëanor' mentioned in HoMe XI p. 329 ?) aravanessë |
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#27 |
King's Writer
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A warm welcome to the project aravanessë from my side as well.
Concerning Amros: A good catch by you, Aiwendil. I could alos not find any later reference to Amras, so I will take up the general change: {Díriel}[Amros] and {Amras}[Amros]. About the 5 sons of Fëanor: This is one of the hard puzzels. My take at it would be that he meant the five cheifs of realms in exil which were: Marches of Maeðros Maelors Gap Himlad and the Pass of Aglon -> Celegorm Dor Caranthir Plian of East Beleriand -> Amros We see Curufin only together with his older brother Celegorm, so he might be missing from thelist of rulers. On the other hand Amros could be missing because I Ever have the feeling that East Beleriand was not realy a realm. But nor a hunting ground for the youngest of Fëanors sons. Respectfully Findegil |
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#28 | |
Pile O'Bones
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aravanessë |
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#29 | |||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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[added in the Margin: 'Though Maedros is now so long established that it would be difficult to alter'. In a later note, however, my father declared that he would change Maedros to Maedron.] Even if this later note was attached specifically to this essay in some way, for example, the use of 'later' implies to my mind that this change was originally not connected to the specific thrust of the (failed) solution. And if it was, I can't think why Tolkien would need to deal with both of the 'two' to solve his problem. It looks to me as if the proposed solution rather centered on a Beorian ros 'foam, white crest of waves', which could further connect to the Ship-name Rothinzil. But Andros had already been published |
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#30 | |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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![]() This is how I take the meaning of the VT description: had Ambarto lived this name probably would have been Sindarized as Amrod -- but the key thing here is 'had' he lived -- because since he died, in practice no one in Middle-earth who spoke Sindarin (as the Noldor would do later) would call Ambarussa Ambarto 'Amros Amrod'. But even though he died, he would still need to be referred to by some name, and in Sindarin contexts he would be known as Amarthan... again because he truly 'became' (by his death) the 'fated one' and became known as such. In the story it was said that Feanaro either thought Nerdanel had said Ambarto, or that Feanaro changed the name himself. But Amarthan became his name in Sindarin contexts, which in a sense nicely echoes that 'rightly' he was called, or 'should' have been called, Umbarto -- as Ambarussa his brother notes in the tale proper. That's my take on these changes anyway. I note that Tolkien decided that 'Finrod' (Finarfin) should not have a Sindarin name because he never came to Middle-earth with his son Inglor Felagund (according to Words, Phrases and Passages this seemed to be the problem at the time). But oddly enough, in the end JRRT retained Sindarized Finarfin even though he hadn't left Aman. Tolkien still felt the need to explain this internally, being yet aware that Finwe Arafinwe would hardly be called 'Finarfin' among Quenya speakers in Aman, and he was not himself in Middle-earth as well. |
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#31 | |
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http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12834 So far I'm not sure dh or d has been discussed. Anyway, there are enough instances where d seems an anglicization, however, as far as I know, basically it's not an anglicization in The Shibboleth of Feanor. Maedron may actually be the latest form, but this change might raise questions concerning the form Amros, and even possibly some Quenya forms depending on the details relating to this change. |
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#32 | |
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There are really three distinct issues with respect to the name 'Maedhros':
1. dh vs. ð - This is entirely an orthographic issue, and it was this that we discussed in the General Changes thread. At one point we had decided to prefer 'ð' to 'dh', but the use of 'dh' in LotR eventually convinced us to use this instead. I had thought that this issue was settled, but looking back at that thread now I'm not sure whether Findegil ever actually agreed to it. What sayst thou, Findegil? 2. dh/ð vs. d - It's not clear to me whether this is merely an issue of Anglicization or a veritable linguistic one. I'm inclined to think it's the latter, however, as normally (as far as I can remember) Tolkien does not Anglicize Sindarin 'dh' to 'd'. If it is merely an Anglicization issue, then it seems to me that we're obliged to use 'dh' since this transliteration is established in LotR. However, if it represents a real change to the Sindarin name, we must go with whatever is latest, as long as it's linguistically tenable. As far as I can tell, the form with 'd' is the later one. Note that if we adopt this, then issue 1 becomes moot. 3. -ros vs. -ron - The issue here is definitely linguistic. My understanding from XII (I don't know if any of the VT texts bear on this issue) is that "-ron" is the form that appears latest. The question, then, is whether the change from "-ros" to "-ron" is associated with the projected stem changes in "The Problem of Ros", which we must reject because of the name "Cair Andros". Galin argued that the -ros > -ron change does not depend on the rejected points of "The Problem of Ros", but I'm not sure I agree. For one thing, the introductory statement to "The Problem of Ros" says: Quote:
My preference, then, is to go with "Maedros". |
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#33 | |||||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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To my mind the -ros in Maedros, outside of being the same word in form and sound, has nothing really to do with the ros in Elros, or the connection to Rothinzil or Elwing, or to Cair Andros being the reason the solution failed (in this idea Beorian ros had an older form roth, and Elros is called Elroth at one point). This is all the 'foam, spray' side of a solution, and I think Tolkien needed to deal with only one of these words to solve his problem. Quote:
But to me, although it's still a 'stem change' in general, it's very much about a reassignment of languages: Quote:
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In Sindarin Maedron may simply mean *shapely one. Tolkien might have just liked this better at some point, but if he was still trying to solve the problem of the Eldarin homophones (again, not unlikely I admit), then it seems that we, or at least I, can't really know how far reaching this change might be. I think Maedron raises questions, but we know Maedros is paired with Amros at least, even if Maedron might be later. As I say, concerning this 'later note', the simple declaration of a change Maedros to Maedron doesn't seem much to go on. CJRT noted this in a somewhat appropriate place -- appropriate here because it shows that Tolkien changed his mind despite the earlier note that Maedros would be difficult to alter. By the way, I hope this isn't too repetitive or annoying, but having thought about this essay and the name Maedhros for a while now, it's fun to bounce my opinions off of knowledgeable Tolkien readers in some detail. ___________________ Just for fun speculation: there's a stem RUN 'red, glowing' for example, and noting URUN 'copper' (note 61, The Shibboleth of Feanor). Maedros was said to have worn a copper circlet and to have had red-brown hair. Again I'm no expert, but I think a C. E. *runná could yield -ron in Sindarin as well. Could part of Maedron similarly refer to hair, at least in some loose way? But would we then also have *Ambarunna and *Runnandol? and Sindarin Maedron, Amron? or might we have some other linguistic scenario which retained certain 'russa, ros names' except for (for some reason) Maedros? Last edited by Galin; 01-05-2011 at 09:30 PM. |
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#34 |
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1. ð vs. dh:
Even so I did not formaly declared it, I did agree to the change back from ð to dh. I doing so I thought more about readability then anything else. For ð only a few experts will have an idea how to pronauce it correctly. For dh that is a bit better. 2. dh/ð vs. d: If this is angelisation I am totally against it. That is for the same reason I was for dh. If we would put a simple d near to nobody would get the pronauciation right. But if it is an linguistical issue and d is the later we should use it. 3. ros vs. ron: This is dificult since Tolkien seems to have been switched back ward and forward. I would have to read deeper into this issu to make up my mind. Respectfuly Findegil |
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#35 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I'll try a short version, based on Findegil's post, and perhaps it will help with clarity regarding my long-winded response above!
1. ð vs. dh: This is a matter of orthography and I would go with dh as well (Galadhrim, Caras Galadhon). 2. dh/ð vs. d: I belive this is anglicization in the 1930s -- 1950s, but by the time of The Shibboleth of Feanor we have maed 'shapely' and a Sindarization of a name. At this point I believe the d is simply d not anglicized dh (and the old meaning of this character's name is here certainly changed from 'pale glitter'). 3. ros vs. ron: A late change to -ron but one that raises questions as to the status of other 'russa, ros' names from The Shibboleth of Feanor (I'm not aware that Tolkien went back and forth here, as Findegil noted). The problem of ros JRRT thought that it was difficult to accept the two homophones occuring in the Eldarin tongues, since they were unconnected in meaning. Tolkien's solution: characterize the ros of Elros ('foam, spray') as Beorian, leaving the other ros as in Maedros ('red-brown') as Eldarin. This failed because Cair Andros had already been published as meaning 'Ship of Long Foam' in a Sindarin (thus Eldarin) context. Tolkien's 'later' declaration concerning a change to Maedron might be another solution to this, but the note, at least as commented on, is sparse on detail. Last edited by Galin; 12-04-2010 at 08:19 AM. |
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#36 | ||
King's Writer
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Okay it is a long time since, but still I think we have the open question of
Maedros vs. Maedron Posted by me: Quote:
Galin, if I understand you rightly, you think that after Tolkien saw that the elegant solution of the problem of ROS that was supposed in that essay failed due to Cair Andros, he solved the problem by altering the other stem ROS, beeing 'a colour word, referring to the red, red-brown hair of the first, sixth, and seventh sons of Feanor' to RUN 'red, glowing' with the word urun meaning 'copper'. In that way you think 'Maitimo *Runnandol' sindarized his name to 'Maedron'. Therefore and since Tolkien did not provide a fitting sindarization you supposd '*Ambarunna' to become '*Amron'. That is also a very elagant solution, but I am not so sure Tolkien did think about it in the way you do. Let's talk about the Quenya names first: I agree that the later mentioning of the stem RUN and word urun would replace ROS and would make the names [i]Rusco[i/], Russandol and Ambarussa unusable. For Rusco 'fox' as an eppesse of Nerdanels father we have the replacement Urundil 'copper-lover'. That said the new form for older Russandol 'copper-top' should be *Urundol, I think. And for old Ambarussa I would think we should get *Ambarun Now lets go to Sindarin: What I miss is a prove that Maedron still had the same meaning as Maedros. Okay, Maedros might have had no proper meaning because it is an sindarized mix of Maitimo and Russandol. But it would still mean somthing like 'well-shaped copper' or less litarily 'well-shaped red one'. Does Maedron mean the same? I don't think so. I would rather think that it is a translation of Maitimo thus meaning 'well-shaped one' as in Sauron 'adhorred one' or in (Aran) Tauron 'the (king) forester'. Further names with that ending are Daeron and Gethron, but I did not check the meaning of these (if they are given at all). Thus we do neither know the proper Mothername of the twins nor the translation for it into Sindarin. Thus Aiwendil is in a sense right: If we change Maedros to Maedron but keep Russandol, Ambarussa and Amros we do not solve the problem of ROS at all. But I do not see how we can do better, without violating our rules. The simple question is then: Do we consider the Maedron note to be Tolkiens last idea? (It is clearly not a case of an idea that can not be integrate, since it is easy to make and even so it does not effectly amend the problem of ROS, it does also not make it worth.) What remains in addition are the names Russandol and Ambarussa. Do we consider them outdated with the note about the stem RUN 'red, glowing'? Russandol we could simply skip but for Ambarussa we would need a replacment. Any ideas? One further point found in this thread posted by Inderjit Sanghera: Quote:
Up to now we have adopted Maelor. Due we stick to this? Respectfuly Findegil Last edited by Findegil; 01-05-2011 at 01:11 PM. |
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#37 | |||||||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
![]() I would stress that my theories concerning RUN in a previous post were for fun speculation. Quote:
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![]() Again I was trying to echo Ambarussa. And just to note it, the shorter version alters the primary stress. Quote:
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The speculation goes on! ![]() Quote:
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The early forms have -ros going way back, and Tolkien seems to think a name with -ros has been too established at this point. I think that CJRT would have noted something like: 'In another late note, however...' if he was uncertain as to which statement followed the other. So I read it as: a 'later' note than even the late note to the Shibboleth. Last edited by Galin; 01-05-2011 at 10:11 PM. |
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#38 |
King's Writer
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About the dating of the note to change Maedros to Maedron: It seems I was not clear enough in my last post. I have no doubt, that the note is later then the text of Shibboleth. So the fact we can be sure of is that the note was later then 1968 when the Shibboleth was written. But that does not make it necessarly the last mention of the charachter of Feanors eldest son.
Anyway, we have other examples were Tolkien needed some time to addapt to a name change, so even if we could find a later mentioning of Maedros we could consider it as a slip of the pen. Since it corrospondce nicely to establishment of the new stem RUN, I would think Maedron is the right choice. What do other think about it? Respectfuly Findegil |
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#39 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2007
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Ah, I see what you mean now Findegil. And later than the Shibboleth still isn't specific, so even an arguably later (than the Shibboleth) occurance of Maedros leaves one up in the air a bit.
This touches upon Maelor: both Maedros and Maelor appear in the note published (in the notes to) Of Dwarves And Men -- along with the idea that one of the Amros twins was burned in the ships -- and CJRT suggests that the sinister story arose during the composition of the text noted in The Shibboleth of Feanor -- that is, in the text The names of the Sons of Feanor with the legend of the fate of Amrod and so on. Hmmm. |
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#40 | |
King's Writer
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Okay, to spare you a long windig search: In post #3 Inderjit Sanghera gave a quote from On Sindarizing of the names [of the sons of Fëanor]. He said that it came from Vinyar Tengwar 39. Since I wanted to read that in full context, I searched for it and found it at last in [Vinyar Tengwar 41[/i]. Since I am sure we will need at least part of it later on in the project, I give the text here in full:
Quote:
Respectfuly Findegil |
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